Class Balancing... no thanks

[Deleted]

They can ask Blizzard to put those changes in live.

The changes are already in live.
We would have to petition Blizzard to remove LFG, cross-realm, flying, transmog etc from LIVE rather than you know add small QoL changes and balance to Vanilla.
Just lol.

[Cracked]

You play rogue? Outlaw is not fun, and was rng on rng much of the expansion, its why I went sin and never looked back. You can 100% play it in heroic and M+ though.

Yes, I expected this reasoning. And I picked outlaw just because it was the most extreme example. Arcane mage then, I guess 93% of mages are doing cutting edge content.

I mean.. you can say any spec is not fun, but as long as it performs, people will flock to it. Buff outlaw numbers by 100% and every rogue and their mother will play it, even if it wasn't fun before. The difference is that you are top dps no matter bad rng, so rng can only reward you

[Deleted]

but because that's what it was and people need to see how bad vanilla was.

Seriously, you add nothing of value to this forum. I will laugh when you inevitably end up enjoying Classic.

[Deleted]

We would have to petition Blizzard to remove LFG, cross-realm, flying, transmog etc from LIVE rather than you know add small QoL changes and balance to Vanilla.

Then do that. The goal of WoW Classic is to provide an authentic vanilla experience, not some weird new hybrid design that is neither classic nor live.

[Typhoria]

False, he logged out in outlaw just to troll people like you. 3 rogues were sub, 2 were assa.

Oh lol. Wow progress data ruined!

[Aphrel]

Im a little torn in this subject. On the one hand making feral druids and protpalas viable fo tanking whouldnt be to terrible (thou palas whould probobly be insanely op if manaproblem is fixed).
On the other hand, it whould feel really weird if some random hybrid spec like retri/enhancement all of a sudden is the fotm pve dpser (rip faction balance^^).

[Deleted]

Then do that. The goal of WoW Classic is to provide an authentic vanilla experience, not some weird new hybrid design that is neither classic nor live.

An authentic vanilla experience will be a different game today. Guess what, a 14 year old game played today isn't going to offer the same "experience" as it did at the time, it will be a degraded experience, especially if you played it before. If you want this degraded experience then go and play it on a private server, but we all know you'll be playing Classic with the rest of us.

[Deleted]

What exactly are you saying? AP frost (31-0-20) was one of the most played raid specs until Naxxramas, especially with decent trinkets.

So frost mage. But what if I wanted to play 31 pts in arcane and wand for dps?

[McFuu]

Yeah but when you start tuning the classes and adding features it's no longer vanilla.
Might just as well play retail then.

I'm not asking to add features.

Lets say TBC came out a year later than it actually did. How many balance patches would have gone through during that time. That's what I'm asking for. Vanilla WoW wasn't popular because you could only play 3 different classes, that's not what made vanilla popular. Class balance didn't kill WoW. If anything it made the game better because TBC was more popular and Wrath was as popular as it got. But end of Wrath started the homogenization shit which I think really impacted the game.

Look when multispecs and Alts really became popular, end of Wrath and forward. I have 6 110s right now. I only had 1 max level in Vanilla, TBC, and Wrath. I didn't hit a second max level until end of Wrath.

It's totally anecdotal, but I think many people are going to say the same things. Making the classes more even in performance (vs utility/job) is only going to help the game.

To me that's an exact description of the problem. What's the price we put on that kind utility. Like I mentioned the saving grace was the fact that DPS wasn't the 'sole metric' of good performance it's seen as today.

However, I think I'm ok with 'semi-degenerate' design. Mainly for three reasons.

1. The fights aren't designed with tight DPS checks in mind (some exceptions, I think?). From my understanding you could get away with a lot in terms of DPS efficiency. As long as they don't re-balance for tight DPS checks, I'll be ok with it.

2. We have a product already dedicated to good numbers design at the cost of homgenisation.

3. Vanilla is essentially a known quantity. It's already happened, people kind of know if they want to DPS or Tank what to roll. You basically choose, bless a raid and do a tiny bit of damage. What's more important being a DPSer or a Pally?

There is also something to be said about player mentality shift of the years too. I assume older Vanilla players might've been more willing to just 'suck it up' with regards to balance as it appealed to first and foremost an RPG crowd in which class role is very important (old school single player RPGs spring to mind).

So considering these things, I personally am OK with it, but I wouldn't cry if they did rebalance DPS numbers within reason (aka aggressive hybrid tax makes its return).

I see no reason we can't balance numbers without making all the classes the same. Hybrid tax aside, an ele shaman should be within 30% damage of a mage, considering they can boost all melee damage in the raid, but they shouldn't do half the numbers on a good day. I don't want to see bosses change, nothing like that, I don't want altered systems, I don't want new talents... I want Vanilla to benefit from 10 more years of balancing, as if TBC + never happened and we are playing the same game. If they don't want to bring Shaman on a raid because they would prefer to have more CC in the group, thats a legit reason to be benched. But performance due to bad numbers tuning isn't a legit reason. Especially because it's automatic, don't take these specs they can't put up numbers.

As for DPS being the sole metric, in Vanilla it was. Boss mechanics were comically easy and rotations consisted of 1 to 2 buttons and dot, maybe, if you were allowed to use it without dropping sunder or some other important debuff.

Now DPS is less the sole mechanic because in Heroic and Mythic you can be one shot out of the raid if you mess up a mechanic. And if you are too concerned on doing mechanics and you drop attack, your DPS suffers greatly. A good player on any class is going to get taken over a mediocre player on the best class. In vanilla you just weren't taken if you weren't one of the xyz classes. Your performance meant little.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Lack of class design and entire specs being irrelevant = rewritten as "superior class fantasy and balancing" in the minds of Classic peeps.

What a shocker.

[Deleted]

But guess what, that's what people asked for. Vanilla is one thing and it should stay the one thing it was. I agree with you that class balance shouldn't be changed in Vanilla, not because it was good (it was the opposite of good) but because that's what it was and people need to see how bad vanilla was.

If it doesnt suck , we dont do it. Just see it as something which was just like that and not as something that can be changed...makes it alot easier to accept and to decide if its something you would play. easy as that.

[Mushkins]

Then do that. The goal of WoW Classic is to provide an authentic vanilla experience, not some weird new hybrid design that is neither classic nor live.

Don't answer on his posts, dude. Just ignore him. He's a hater and troll.

[Cracked]

So frost mage. But what if I wanted to play 31 pts in arcane and wand for dps?

Sure, if you consider 31 pts arcane, 20 pts frost a frost mage.


Ok, what if I wanted to be a warrior decked out in intellect gear swinging my staff around..? What if I wanted to be an assasination rogue who does damage with his crossbow..? Do you see the problem with those questions..?

[Halyon]

Ferals/retry palas shouldn't deal as much damage as rogues, period.

Nobody says this either, cut the crap. People for class balancing wants more classes to be VIABLE. To actually be worth bringing to raids and dungeons, and not just have them lying around to be farmbots (for herbs/minerals and cheap-ass rogues who suck at real pvp), and only one class out of 3 possible ones being even able to tank.

Fuck this hybrid tax bullshit. Pure classes should ideally only be marginally be better than another class. Maybe a generous margin, but margin nonetheless.

[Deleted]

Nobody says this either, cut the crap. People for class balancing wants more classes to be VIABLE. To actually be worth bringing to raids and dungeons, and not just have them lying around to be farmbots (for herbs/minerals and cheap-ass rogues who suck at real pvp), and only one class out of 3 possible ones being even able to tank.

Fuck this hybrid tax bullshit. Pure classes should ideally only be marginally be better than another class. Maybe a generous margin, but margin nonetheless.

Wow. Didn't see this much sense coming from you

[Deleted]

Guess what, a 14 year old game played today isn't going to offer the same "experience" as it did at the time, it will be a degraded experience, especially if you played it before.

I play much older games regularly on emulators, the experience is not degraded. I haven't played on private servers, but I have heard many private server players said the experience is still as great as it was. So I see no reason to believe your claim.

If you want this degraded experience then go and play it on a private server, but we all know you'll be playing Classic with the rest of us.

I won't play on private servers, and I won't play Classic unless it's truly authentic (otherwise what's the point?). I haven't touched WoW since MoP and I have no intention of ever playing live again, and have no problem not touching Classic either if they screw it up by trying to balance the classes, or introduce the token, or whatever.

[MonsieuRoberts]

I've said it since the announcement, and I'll say it again:

Changes WILL be made. Classic is going to have a broader appeal because it has to in 2017, and that means people will be able to play what they want and not be relegated to a single spec, or a single role.

Activision-Blizzard doesn't make games that appeal to a few thousand Vanilla thread postgrinders, they make games that a fuckton of people want to play, and a fuckton of people are going to want to pick classes and roles they're familiar with, and guess what; They're going to want to be able to play the fucking game. Not expecting changes is just willful ignorance. Is it really that offensive that someone could choose to play Balance or Ret in PvE content and not be literal dogshit? If you truly believe they're going to replicate a busted version of their game you're wrong. Straight-up wrong.

[Spaze]

I won't play on private servers, and I won't play Classic unless it's truly authentic (otherwise what's the point?). I haven't touched WoW since MoP and I have no intention of ever playing live again, and have no problem not touching Classic either if they screw it up by trying to balance the classes, or introduce the token, or whatever.

and you made your account to discuss classic servers with us even if you dont care if they screw it up?

[Deleted]

and you made your account to discuss classic servers with us even if you dont care if they screw it up?

I made it because I will absolutely play WoW Classic if they don't screw it up, and I want to make my opinion on what constitutes "screwing up" publicly. But if they do screw it up, then so be it, I will continue to not play WoW, it's not the end of the world.

[Arrowstormen]

The war between classic and current is like the war between the romantics and the industrialists. Meaning fantasy and feel versus mechanically sound and logic.

Personally, I'm in favor of leaving it in the last state it was in in Classic, and then maybe change it after if it doesn't work out. If you're going to try to recreate the fantasy bubble, you might as well go all in on the extreme of the spectrum.