Are lootboxes gambling & should games be regulated. BF2 and OW under investigation

[Jtbrig7390]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ba...GSS-05-10aaa0b

Battlefront 2, Overwatch Being Investigated By Gambling Authority In Belgium
Do loot boxes constitute gambling?

Belgium's gambling authority, the Belgian Gaming Commission, has launched an investigation into Star Wars: Battlefront II and Overwatch to determine if the loot boxes in those games constitute gambling, according to VTM News. Games of chance require a permit from the Gaming Commission in Belgium, and due to the random nature of loot boxes, they could fall into that category.

Belgian Gaming Commission director Peter Naessens said (via PCGamesN), "If there is a game of chance, it is not possible without a permit from the Gaming Commission." If the commission determines that the loot crate system is a game of chance, the publishers of the games in question--Electronic Arts and Blizzard--could have to a pay a fine amounting to "hundreds of thousands of Euros." It's also reportedly possible that the games could be removed from sale in Belgium.

Battlefront II's loot boxes can contain items that actually affect gameplay, while Overwatch's are cosmetic only. It's unclear if this would impact the ruling, however.

"Games of chance cannot be compared to any other kind of economic services," reads a line from the commission's charter. "They may cause people to become addicted to gambling and cause them to lose a great deal of money. For this reason, a number of protective measures have been implemented to protect players against these sorts of potential risks."

We have contacted Electronic Arts and Blizzard in an attempt to get their response to Belgium's investigation. We'll report back with new information as it comes to light.

The Chinese version of Overwatch displays some loot box odds, though the game does not in other parts of the world. For its part, Blizzard CEO Mike Morhaime said Overwatch does not belong in the loot box controversy discussion because the game only offers cosmetic items in its crates.

According to the Entertainment Software Rating Board, which is not a government agency, loot boxes do not constitute gambling. "While there's an element of chance in these mechanics, the player is always guaranteed to receive in-game content (even if the player unfortunately receives something they don't want)," a spokesperson told Kotaku. "We think of it as a similar principle to collectible card games: Sometimes you'll open a pack and get a brand new holographic card you've had your eye on for a while. But other times you'll end up with a pack of cards you already have."

EA has faced a wave of criticism over Battlefront II's loot box/microtransaction systems. Just this week, EA CFO Blake Jorgensen said "people need to be patient" as the developer responds to player feedback and makes necessary changes.

Enjoy the lootbox shit while you can because more and more country's are going to crackdown on it and rule it for what it is... Gambling.

Edit: Changed title from "And so it begins Battlefront 2, Overwatch Being Investigated By Gambling Authority" to "Are lootboxes gambling & should games be regulated. BF2 and OW under investigation" - Nov. 22, 2017. Lucetia

[masterhorus8]

I'm curious as to why Overwatch is part of it while something like Hearthstone isn't. Does being a TCG vs FPS make the difference?

*Note: Not bashing Hearthstone or any TCG, because I know that's how you get cards. (I play MTG)

[Jtbrig7390]

I'm curious as to why Overwatch is part of it while something like Hearthstone isn't. Does being a TCG vs FPS make the difference?

It mite but you got a point. I also wouldn't be surprised if its part of it because Overwatch is bigger then Hearthstone.

[Jester Joe]

Eh, China already did their thing with it, and now other locations are following suit.

I wouldn't expect much change honestly, ESRB already said no, I doubt they'll change tune just because of others.

[Tekkommo]

Fifa should definitely be on the list with their damn ultimate cards.

[Jtbrig7390]

Eh, China already did their thing with it, and now other locations are following suit.

I wouldn't expect much change honestly, ESRB already said no, I doubt they'll change tune just because of others.

If pushed hard enough there is a group that can go over ESRB's head. I doubt it will come to that tho.

Ether way even if its outside the US its good to see country's call lootbox's for what they are. Like I was telling a buddy of mine all it takes is one really pissed off parent and shit can change.

[Video Games]

This is great news. Nip this cancer in the bud before it gets out of control.

[Arkthugal]

I mean, it's sorta gambling, but only in the vaguest, most superficial way. It's as much gambling as opening a pack of cards and I don't think we count that as gambling.

I am entirely okay with Loot Boxes as long as they stick to mostly inconsequential shit, like cosmetics. Overwatch and HotS implementations are pretty inoffensive, all things considered. Overwatch is 100% cosmetic, while HotS boxes are mostly cosmetic but sometimes you get a free hero.

Most importantly, I'd say, is that there has to be a means to obtain these boxes without having to pay for them. You wanna charge money for extra boxes, that's fine, but there has to be a way to get them without paying first.

[Remilia]

Japan and China requires them to display the percentages. Not sure about South Korea but I imagine something similar is in place. Of course no false advertisement or false drop rate from the displayed. Some other blobs of stuff in the text.

Not really surprised it's going to be looked into.

[Jtbrig7390]

I mean, it's sorta gambling

Its not sorta gambling its 100% gambling.

gam·ble
ˈɡambəl/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: gambling
1.
play games of chance for money; bet.
"she was fond of gambling on cards and horses"
synonyms: bet, place/lay a bet on something, stake money on something, back the horses, game; informalplay the ponies
"he started to gamble more often"
2.
take risky action in the hope of a desired result.
"the British could only gamble that something would turn up"
synonyms: take a chance, take a risk; More

[dope_danny]

Good, i dont think Overwatch is since its literally textures and every Mei is only different based on player skill. But even being investigated is press that should make parents less wary to buy this shit for kids without knowing they are letting microtransaction indoctrination into their house unawares.

[Arkthugal]

Its not sorta gambling its 100% gambling.

Okay there mister pedantry, the law isn't concerned so much with that second definition as much as the first.

[Yunru]

So it begins. Its kinda sooner than expected tho. If other countrys follow suit we can hope to get rid of this plague in a year or 2.

[Super Kami Dende]

Its not sorta gambling its 100% gambling.

Well it isn't. Since with Gambling the "risky" action is coming out of it with nothing. Blizzard will likely argue that due to the fact you ALWAYS get a prize in every box it isn't constituted as Gambling and is more along the lines of a Random item Prize. Which is what generally covers TCG's and CCG's since you ALWAYS get something in return.

If I gamble on a Horse, the horse can lose and I lose money.
If I gamble on a Lootbox, I may not get the Item I *want* but I still get an Item.

[Yizu]

It mite but you got a point. I also wouldn't be surprised if its part of it because Overwatch is bigger then Hearthstone.

Really? I always thought it was opposite coz 99% of the time Hearthstone has more twitch viewers than Overwatch, not that it means anything.

[Jastall]

Loot boxes aren't legally gambling (as you always get something and don't lose anything) but psychologically, they have a similar impetus to play again and again until you win something. There's a reason it's a successful business model, the addictive rush of adrenaline and satisfaction you have when you do get what you want is similar to the one you get when you gamble and win.

Still, I think the minimum that should be done is force companies to show what the odds of getting what are. At the very least, let's hope that this + the backlash around BF2 are enough to make companies reconsider, but I sadly doubt it will happen.

[Jtbrig7390]

Well it isn't. Since with Gambling the "risky" action is coming out of it with nothing.

You don't get to decide what words mean sorry. Lootbox's is gambling that is a fact backed up by the definition of the word. Not getting what you want is the same as not getting nothing and the definition does not say in order for it to be gambling you get nothing.

There is also many country's that disagree with you. This isn't up for debate words have meanings and this is gambling, Not going to debate more on it.

[Yunru]

Well it isn't. Since with Gambling the "risky" action is coming out of it with nothing. Blizzard will likely argue that due to the fact you ALWAYS get a prize in every box it isn't constituted as Gambling and is more along the lines of a Random item Prize. Which is what generally covers TCG's and CCG's since you ALWAYS get something in return.

If I gamble on a Horse, the horse can lose and I lose money.
If I gamble on a Lootbox, I may not get the Item I *want* but I still get an Item.

You lose if you get a duplicate.

[jackofwind]

It's no different than buying a Koala Kandy Kone at the corner store. You might not get the candy you want, but there's no risk of getting no candy.

- - - Updated - - -

You lose if you get a duplicate.

No you don't, you still get currency.

[Baelic]

I think that the differences between Lootboxes and TCGs are;

1) That's the only way to get cards.
2) The value of said cards is determined by a third-party, and not through the seller (usually?). As far as the company who sells the packs is concerned, all packs contain X$ of value.
3) Most card parks tell you what you're getting (X Commons, Y Rares)

Since the contents of most loot boxes are things you can buy individually, the inherent value of each loot box is random and not known until it is opened, you could purchase a $1 loot box and end up getting $5 of in-game marketplace content or less than $1 of content (numbers used as an example to make the point, replace whichever numbers makes sense) . Thus the gambling connection.