Grand Marshal/High Warlord

[Deleted]

Now Im very much for leaving the classic experience as untouched as possible but can we talk about this garbage pile of a system?

It was literally impossible for someone with a life outside of wow to get high pvpranks. Had nothing to do with skill, just 100% with how much time you could invest. And the threshold was so absurd that you were going up against accountsharers playing a given char 24/7.

Awful system that incentivises and rewards playstyles that are unhealthy and/or against the ToS.


I feel like it should be changed although Im not sure what would be a good replacement. A simple points grind would be an awful replacement as it would easily make pvp gear the default gear to shoot for pre AQ, rendering A TON of non pvp content irrelevant.

I feel what classic wow needs is a system very akin to the old r14 system but based on skill and not on invested time. Leave the numeral restriction on possible r14s per week but base it on a measurement of skill. Like # of wins in the last 20 BGs played that week or something more refined taking into account the current standings of the people you fight with and against. Basically an ELO system like in LOL or DotA2 to determine who really deserves to carry the title and weapons of GM/HW.

[Deleted]

Vanilla will be Vanilla.

[jackofwind]

Or we could keep the Vanilla experience and call it Vanilla.

[Jonnusthegreat]

It would be nice, but they should not change it. I was a high school no-lifer in classic, and achieved Centurion (2 away from HWL) when my account got hacked. Even getting to Centurion took me like 20 hours per week of PVPing. But honestly, remember, the big part of playing Classic was the PRESTIGE of getting shit. Why be HWL when theres 700,000 of them? Who cares, it's just another title. But the aspiration of being one in 7,000? OMG - MUST HAVE! (Or try and fail, more likely).

[Sanguinerd]

It would be nice, but they should not change it. I was a high school no-lifer in classic, and achieved Centurion (2 away from HWL) when my account got hacked. Even getting to Centurion took me like 20 hours per week of PVPing. But honestly, remember, the big part of playing Classic was the PRESTIGE of getting shit. Why be HWL when theres 700,000 of them? Who cares, it's just another title. But the aspiration of being one in 7,000? OMG - MUST HAVE! (Or try and fail, more likely).

I'm sad to tell ya but Centurion was only rank 9. You could easily get Champion/Lieutenant Commander by PvPing casually.

That being said, you're right but also wrong. Sure it's just a rank but the gear and status you unlocked are why people did it really.

[jackofwind]

I was a high school no-lifer in classic, and achieved Centurion.

Oh my sweet summer child. Centurion was a long, long way from HWL.

[Jonnusthegreat]

I'm sad to tell ya but Centurion was only rank 9. You could easily get Champion/Lieutenant Commander by PvPing casually.

That being said, you're right but also wrong. Sure it's just a rank but the gear and status you unlocked are why people did it really.

Yeah it was like 12 years ago and I was just a kid, give me a break! Point is, I had no life outside WoW and still didn't make it - and I'm OK with that! I had my stormstrike Unstoppable force and 1 shotting people was my business!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh my sweet summer child. Centurion was a long, long way from HWL.

Well, my account was hacked and I did ABs with a team of 15, where 5+ of them were HWLs.... and I was like 16 at the time so I clearly said everything correctly and didn't embellish anything!

[Deleted]

It would be nice, but they should not change it. I was a high school no-lifer in classic, and achieved Centurion (2 away from HWL) when my account got hacked. Even getting to Centurion took me like 20 hours per week of PVPing. But honestly, remember, the big part of playing Classic was the PRESTIGE of getting shit. Why be HWL when theres 700,000 of them? Who cares, it's just another title. But the aspiration of being one in 7,000? OMG - MUST HAVE! (Or try and fail, more likely).

If you actually read my post you'd notice that I want to keep the prestige by keeping the restriction on the amount of people that can reach r14 in a given week. I merely would like to shift away from time investment being the primary factor to actual pvpskill being that factor.

Spending 24/7 spamming bgs for 3 weeks was just bullshit for everyone. The system was widely hated even during classic so "classic will be classic" is an asinine argument.

Theres nothing speaking for this system aside from some classic server haters thinking they can spew their poison around by demanding that everything on the classic servers comes in the worst possible iteration. You can feel the childish spite in their posts when they basically say "you wanted classic, so ill make sure you get the worst possible iteration of it" like the joyless suckers they are.


I understand that the prestige in acquiring r14 is important. I dont want to change that. Not saying my suggestion is the last word on the subject but I tried to think of something that keeps the prestige while doing away with rewarding strictly absurd amounts of time investment.

[Jonnusthegreat]

If you actually read my post you'd notice that I want to keep the prestige by keeping the restriction on the amount of people that can reach r14 in a given week. I merely would like to shift away from time investment being the primary factor to actual pvpskill being that factor.

Spending 24/7 spamming bgs for 3 weeks was just bullshit for everyone. The system was widely hated even during classic so "classic will be classic" is an asinine argument.

Theres nothing speaking for this system aside from some classic server haters thinking they can spew their poison around by demanding that everything on the classic servers comes in the worst possible iteration. You can feel the childish spite in their posts when they basically say "you wanted classic, so ill make sure you get the worst possible iteration of it" like the joyless suckers they are.


I understand that the prestige in acquiring r14 is important. I dont want to change that. Not saying my suggestion is the last word on the subject but I tried to think of something that keeps the prestige while doing away with rewarding strictly absurd amounts of time investment.

The problem with your suggestion though is that it takes developer time and resources FROM WoW to Classic - resulting in a worse WoW experience for the playerbase. Currently, all Classic requires is a USB drive and some server devotion. Blizzard is too stupid (or thinks their playerbase it too stupid) to realize how simple Classic is. ANY changes cause a shift in workforce that nets a negative experience for the WoW player.

[fadedmind]

Now Im very much for leaving the classic experience as untouched as possible but can we talk about this garbage pile of a system?

It was literally impossible for someone with a life outside of wow to get high pvpranks. Had nothing to do with skill, just 100% with how much time you could invest. And the threshold was so absurd that you were going up against accountsharers playing a given char 24/7.

Awful system that incentivises and rewards playstyles that are unhealthy and/or against the ToS.


I feel like it should be changed although Im not sure what would be a good replacement. A simple points grind would be an awful replacement as it would easily make pvp gear the default gear to shoot for pre AQ, rendering A TON of non pvp content irrelevant.

I feel what classic wow needs is a system very akin to the old r14 system but based on skill and not on invested time. Leave the numeral restriction on possible r14s per week but base it on a measurement of skill. Like # of wins in the last 20 BGs played that week or something more refined taking into account the current standings of the people you fight with and against. Basically an ELO system like in LOL or DotA2 to determine who really deserves to carry the title and weapons of GM/HW.

If it's not for you, then its not for you. Vanilla needs to stay vanilla #onlythestrongwillsurvive

[Deleted]

Or we could keep the Vanilla experience and call it Vanilla.

I doubt a significant amount of people would name the hwl/gm grind an essential part of the classic experience. But hey, heres a thread. Lets discuss it instead of childishly trying to shut down a topic because it doesnt sit right with your personal views on the matter.

Tell me why you feel that going from a time intensive grind to a skill based system would negatively impact classic servers for other reasons than "thats not how it was". Because if that reasoning was relevant in any way, blizz wouldnt have repeatedly stressed that they want to discuss with the community how these servers should be, which i was trying to do here before you so rudely burped into the thread.

[Deleted]

i feel like you need to play retail

[Deleted]

The problem with your suggestion though is that it takes developer time and resources FROM WoW to Classic - resulting in a worse WoW experience for the playerbase. Currently, all Classic requires is a USB drive and some server devotion. Blizzard is too stupid (or thinks their playerbase it too stupid) to realize how simple Classic is. ANY changes cause a shift in workforce that nets a negative experience for the WoW player.

Bullshit. Blizz already explicitly stated that classic will get its own team and have no negative impact on live wow. Stop pulling shit out of your ass and presenting it as an argument. It stinks.

[God Save The King]

I'd be fine with the change.

I don't PvP so I don't really care though. It doesn't break the essence of vanilla for me, but I understand for some it'll devalue the achievement.

As with many things in Vanilla, skill didn't have a huge impact, it was mainly if you had the time to commit to massive grinds. It's part of the charm.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Bullshit. Blizz already explicitly stated that classic will get its own team and have no negative impact on live wow. Stop pulling shit out of your ass and presenting it as an argument. It stinks.

Getting its own team = a team that could be working on WoW, but isn't.

[God Save The King]

Bullshit. Blizz already explicitly stated that classic will get its own team and have no negative impact on live wow. Stop pulling shit out of your ass and presenting it as an argument. It stinks.

If you know anything about development, you know that they're right, and Blizzard is just saying that for PR.

These new people will need to be trained, they will have questions, they will need guidance. Someone will need to make the big decisions. I have no doubt that they won't be moving any one over, but you can't just hire 10 people, hand them a 14~ year old code base, and expect them to figure it out without help. Someone will need to explain how the game worked, what they need to do to get classic running, how to restore the data values, rebuild the client, and so on. A new person won't be making those decisions, someone who is a veteran of the company will be, someone who could spend that time on the real game.

Plus, even if they somehow manage to keep the classic team from drawing anything from the main team's resources, there is still the $$ problem. This team is not free, and consumes resources that could be spent on other games.

[Deleted]

i feel like you need to play retail

I have played Legion and did everything I wanted to, including mage tower, pvp, raiding, m+, several alts and whatever you can imagine outside of pet battles. I really enjoyed legion but its still a very streamlined game with pretty boring, streamlined dungeon design, awful worldpvp, huge item scaling issues (1 raid tier in leg has almost as high an ilvl gap as the entirety of vanilla maxlvl content). I like classic. Played on 3 different private servers and enjoyed the shit out of it outside of the constant fear and actuality of losing allmyour shit when blizz decides to take the server down.

Not sure how me playing legion would alter my wish for a less retarded pvp system in classic. Im absolutely going to play on these servers and I would love for the pvp system to be more than a showoff for 12 year old basement dwelling account sharers. Swear to god it will change. Even Blizzard knows that system was awful.

- - - Updated - - -

If you know anything about development, you know that they're right, and Blizzard is just saying that for PR.

These new people will need to be trained, they will have questions, they will need guidance. Someone will need to make the big decisions. I have no doubt that they won't be moving any one over, but you can't just hire 10 people, hand them a 14~ year old code base, and expect them to figure it out without help. Someone will need to explain how the game worked, what they need to do to get classic running, how to restore the data values, rebuild the client, and so on. A new person won't be making those decisions, someone who is a veteran of the company will be, someone who could spend that time on the real game.

Plus, even if they somehow manage to keep the classic team from drawing anything from the main team's resources, there is still the $$ problem. This team is not free, and consumes resources that could be spent on other games.

However some random guys ever managed to get private servers running pretty fucking well without anything you just mentioned. I guess nostalrius never happened. Let alone the other dozens of well working privates.

-cut out. Bullshit on my part-

[jackofwind]

I doubt a significant amount of people would name the hwl/gm grind an essential part of the classic experience. But hey, heres a thread. Lets discuss it instead of childishly trying to shut down a topic because it doesnt sit right with your personal views on the matter.

Tell me why you feel that going from a time intensive grind to a skill based system would negatively impact classic servers for other reasons than "thats not how it was". Because if that reasoning was relevant in any way, blizz wouldnt have repeatedly stressed that they want to discuss with the community how these servers should be, which i was trying to do here before you so rudely burped into the thread.

The PvP system is absolutely an essential part of the Classic experience because it's the only way to deliver the Vanilla PvP experience. Change it and it's not Vanilla anymore. Everything in Vanilla focused on grinds, nothing was truly skill-based.

These things have been repeated ad nauseum throughout all these nonsense threads, of which yours is just one more rehashing a topic that's already been discussed to death.

The great part is that you don't need to like Vanilla or its systems. It is what it is, and it's not for everybody.

[hulkgor]

Now Im very much for leaving the classic experience as untouched as possible but can we talk about this garbage pile of a system?

It was literally impossible for someone with a life outside of wow to get high pvpranks. Had nothing to do with skill, just 100% with how much time you could invest. And the threshold was so absurd that you were going up against accountsharers playing a given char 24/7.

Awful system that incentivises and rewards playstyles that are unhealthy and/or against the ToS.


I feel like it should be changed although Im not sure what would be a good replacement. A simple points grind would be an awful replacement as it would easily make pvp gear the default gear to shoot for pre AQ, rendering A TON of non pvp content irrelevant.

I feel what classic wow needs is a system very akin to the old r14 system but based on skill and not on invested time. Leave the numeral restriction on possible r14s per week but base it on a measurement of skill. Like # of wins in the last 20 BGs played that week or something more refined taking into account the current standings of the people you fight with and against. Basically an ELO system like in LOL or DotA2 to determine who really deserves to carry the title and weapons of GM/HW.

Leave it as is. Whoever invested (a lot of) time and effort, got it. Why try to dilute it just so you (without said time and effort) can obtain it?

[Bigbazz]

Just accept that you like most everybody else will never get HWL/GM and feel pity for the no-lifers that do. It's a ranking system that is brutally competitive towards co-operation with other players and absolute dedication, but it is what it is... I stand no chance in hell of getting anywhere near HWL but I certainly don't want them to water it down just so that I do.