Girl Scouts : Hugging relatives during the holidays violates consent

[Icechaosss]

Because there are actual benefits to making a kid go to school with no real downside. You even said yourself it's to do with morals more so than consent. In the case of your shitty school comparison, the benefits far outweigh the violation of consent. What benefits are there at all that could outweigh violating someone's consent in this scenario?

So you're only allowed to violate consent when there are greater benefits in this case?

Also, you still don't know why that kid won't go to school. Bullies? Teacher abuse? Depression?

I agree you should always send your kids to school. But my point of communication still stands, which I don't think most of you get in this thread.

[Ghostpanther]

Uh, that seems pretty outlandish to me.

As someone who was encouraged to hug my relatives as a kid, I can safely say that the only thing it taught me was that I should be thankful for the love/gifts that my relatives had for me. It definitely did not extend to any situation outside of that. I've never thought "Well I had to hug my granny when she got me a baseball cap, I guess that means I have to let this girl sex me up because she paid for dinner."

I mean don't FORCE your kids to hug relatives, but I don't think it's a bad idea to encourage it. I wouldn't my kids to take people/presents for granted and become spoiled. Maybe that's just me though.

It is the right attitude to have. You are not alone in that line of thought.

[rayden54]

I wish I were raised extremely shittily so that I could know how abused kids act, but unfortunately I was raised to appreciate my family through hugs. Weird how that shit works.

You're so completely out of touch with reality that it's funny. I really hope you don't have kids. Because if someone is abusing them, you'll never see it.

[Bapestar]

Your argument is nonsense and you're just in this thread to insult people because you think you're some alpha god who was too manly as a child to have their consent violated.

It has nothing to do with actually hugging someone. It's about actually listening to your kid and asking why they wouldn't want to hug someone and letting them know that it's okay if they don't want to regardless of the reason. If it's something a bit childish, you can tell them that but you still shouldn't force them to be intimate with anyone.

Thank you. It's really that simple.

[LiiLoSNK]

You're so completely out of touch with reality that it's funny. I really hope you don't have kids. Because if someone is abusing them, you'll never see it.

Yep I'm out of touch with reality. Everyone in my family is raping everyone and I just don't know about it. I'm glad you told me so I can alert the girl scouts.

[Underverse]

Because there are actual benefits to making a kid go to school with no real downside. You even said yourself it's to do with morals more so than consent. In the case of your shitty school comparison, the benefits far outweigh the violation of consent. What benefits are there at all that could outweigh violating someone's consent in this scenario?

An argument can be made for increased social behavior and stronger family ties. But that's not really something I'm going to argue for, because I've already done what I came here to do, which is to demonstrate that consent is not equivalent to morality and actions should be judged by their overall value.

After all, I already said:

Yeah I agree, there's no real reason to force them to hug a family member.

So I don't know why you're so rabidly attacking me.

[Fat Mac]

[LiiLoSNK]

Weird how you think just because I call out your immature alpha male trolling behavior from one thread to the next makes you think I give a shit about you. I just call out ignorance when I see it. If you post it in more than one thread that I happen to feel like commenting in, then I'll call it out in both threads.

Get over yourself.

Immature alpha male family hugging is violating consent rights. Hugging someone is pretty much going to 6th base with them in your book, so keep your kids secluded in basements and tucked away, only to see the light of a monitor while talking to others on internet forums!

[Underverse]

We don't even know if autism is developed or not though.

I'd have to read up on if there's any correlation between physical intimacy and trust. If anything, the person willing to be more physical would suggest that they trust me but I don't typically care about that. I'd rather know if I can trust someone myself.

But if someone shows that they are willing to be physically intimate with you (that sounds a bit strange for describing a hug - I don't think this should even be considered physical intimacy), then they are at least extending a hand, and are unlikely to harm you. Those are important signals for making rational social decisions.

[Izalla]

Immature alpha male family hugging is violating consent rights. Hugging someone is pretty much going to 6th base with them in your book, so keep your kids secluded in basements and tucked away, only to see the light of a monitor while talking to others on internet forums!

It's not the hugging, it's the idea that you HAVE TO LET THEM DO IT. You're forced over and over to let Grandma hug you, and you love Grandma so that's fine even though you don't want to hug. But then some perv, family or not, starts acting inappropriate and you've learned that adults are allowed to touch you. Maybe you're too young to understand what bad touching is, even if you've been told about it. Point is, being forced to let people touch you against your will, leaves you vulnerable to those who would touch you inappropriately.

Kids don't think in the same way as adults, they don't always just go "well this situation is clearly not the same as with Grandma." They've just learned "it's rude to say no when adults want to touch me." For me it was an automatic learned behaviour, not something I thought about logically and weighed every situation against. No kid ever expects to be molested and is keeping an eye out for weird pervy behaviour, unless they already have been...

[LiiLoSNK]

You're just a waste of time with your constant strawmen and red herrings.

And you're unable to accept that a kid not wanting to hug someone due to childish reasons, but still being told to hug them, will most likely be perfectly fine.

You're on the minority with these crazy hug fears, yet you are trying to convince the actual functioning families that THEY are wrong. I genuinely feel sorry for you.

[callipygoustp]

I was at a family member's funeral a few weeks ago. Good god my family was raping the hell out of each other. No fucking consent what so ever. In particular, my nephew(15) and niece(11) raped me(49) multiple times. Not once did they ask for my consent. Good thing this psychiatrist brought this issue up. People need guidelines for all kinds of social engagements. Safety first!

/s

Weirdos.

[De Lupe]

Well, another reason to not let my niece join the girl scouts.

[rayden54]

And you're unable to accept that a kid not wanting to hug someone due to childish reasons, but still being told to hug them, will most likely be perfectly fine.

You're on the minority with these crazy hug fears, yet you are trying to convince the actual functioning families that THEY are wrong. I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Get it through your head. EVERY family thinks it's functional. EVERY family thinks "this can't happen in my family" Until they're wrong.

You think my family knew my grandpa was a child molester? Hardly. As soon as they found out they made sure he went to prison.

[callipygoustp]

Who said anything about rape?

I did. Wasn't that obvious?

Lack of consent = rape, duh!

[dvaz]

Well, another reason to not let my niece join the girl scouts.

Yup, i usually buy cookies from them outside the store cause i thought it was a honorably institution.

I won't anymore.

[Nelaphim-EX]

If your child freaks out when being told to hug a specific person, you probably want to look into the situation. But being told to hug an aunt/uncle/grandmother/whatever who only gets to see the child on holidays is not a 'violation of consent'. It is family values. It makes the person care more for the child, releases positive chemicals in the brain, and strengthens family bonds, which means that if something happens, they are more likely to help that child.

[LiiLoSNK]

It's not the hugging, it's the idea that you HAVE TO LET THEM DO IT. You're forced over and over to let Grandma hug you, and you love Grandma so that's fine even though you don't want to hug. But then some perv, family or not, starts acting inappropriate and you've learned that adults are allowed to touch you. Maybe you're too young to understand what bad touching is, even if you've been told about it. Point is, being forced to let people touch you against your will, leaves you vulnerable to those who would touch you inappropriately.

Kids don't think in the same way as adults, they don't always just go "well this situation is clearly not the same as with Grandma." They've just learned "it's rude to say no when adults want to touch me." For me it was an automatic learned behaviour, not something I thought about logically and weighed every situation against. No kid ever expects to be molested and is keeping an eye out for weird pervy behaviour, unless they already have been...

That's not at all what all kids take away from being told to hug a family member. Being told to hug a family member who constantly works really hard to make you happy, even if it means having to smell old people for 2 whole seconds, is not that bad of a compromise. I never once even began to feel like that meant , "oh hey, so now if some completely random guy in a van offers me candy, I have to hug him". Nobody I know has ever thought that. Parenting doesn't begin and end at telling you to hug someone who cares about you. They can still be like, "oh and also, strangers or family members who touch your crotch are bad, let us know".

Kids definitely don't think the same way as adults. As a kid, I was slow to take other peoples feelings into consideration. If I yelled, "I don't wanna hug grandma, she's gross!", as an adult I'd feel horrible looking back on that. Not at one point ever was I thinking that I have to let people touch me or I'm being rude. I feel like we're not being taught the same things after being told to give someone a hug.

[PaladinBash]

Yeah, usual suspects saying it's a good thing of course. Wouldn't want to go against anything progressive such as kids knowing better than anyone else, of course, seeing as how they're the flower of the great Marxist revolution to come. It's a pretty harmless and trivial thing, of course, but that's what makes it funny rather than dangerous, like the same fools saying that boys should be chemically castrated for playing with dolls and teachers sacked for calling a girl 'her' because she plays with trucks. Just because your ideology is childish as shit and you're an adult doesn't mean that actual children stop being children.

[Linkedblade]

It isn't a sexual gesture and therefore doesn't need consent from your children. It's a sign of love/respect. If you're telling your child to tongue their grandmother, that's a different story. A hug is not sexual in this regard and it is utter bullshit that you'd even defend this nonsense and then attack someone and use your typical buzzwords in there to legitimize your stance.

Nah it has to be a christian side hug.

ffs. it's one thing to be told to hug someone. its another to force them.