New Leveling and Dungeon Finder - Still ruins the experience

[kary]

The /who search shows players from another servers. Says the name and server where they are from

So you are saying that is not true that the majority of people choose to level up via LFD spam and the world is empty because of it...

Tell me then, how is the leveling situation right now...

it shows people in your dogshit connected rp realm, not across all other servers
Also, the world is always fairly empty outside leveling waves.

[hyphnos]

The /who search shows players from another servers. Says the name and server where they are from

So you are saying that is not true that the majority of people choose to level up via LFD spam and the world is empty because of it...

Tell me then, how is the leveling situation right now...

For those of us not traumatized by not seeing other cartoon characters around us, the levelling situation is fine.

Also, you have provided zero proof that the world is empty because people are in dungeons, rather than it being empty because there are just not many people in any given shard of a particular server type levelling at any given moment.

If you need a crowd, then play in max level zones where the players are located and stop whining about people not being in content released in 2004.

[Deleted]

Also, you have provided zero proof that the world is empty because people are in dungeons, rather than it being empty because there are just not many people in any given shard of a particular server type levelling at any given moment.

If you need a crowd, then play in max level zones where the players are located and stop whining about people not being in content released in 2004.

There are low levels, they are just all in Stormwind/Orgrimmar.
/who
In the level range search for a couple of levels because the max result is 50 people.
Search 1-30, 30-50, 50-70

You will see plenty of low levels in major cities...i wonder what they are doing there.

[InfiniteCharger]

The technology to do LFG wasn't available in 2004. Even moving to CRZ was a difficult process in 2011 when it was introduced.

Not sure why people thought or think sitting in trade chat for 30mins to an hour looking for a group is or was a positive gaming experience or a good use of your time.

Considering that WOW has been immensely popular starting with Vanilla right through Wrath, there must have been a LOT of people who thought it was a positive experience. That said, folks were asking for LFG, including myself at that time.

CRZ and sharding are a totally separate issue and has nothing to do with LFG. CRZ and sharding came about as a result of trying to handle population fluctuation across servers. It wasn't an issue in Vanilla as most servers were packed, which is why the old system of chat based activity finding worked. That system wouldn't work in today's WOW and I never suggested that it should. What I am saying though is for the game at the start and the way it was designed at the start it worked perfectly fine no matter how many folks bad mouth about it now 10 years later. At the time plenty of folks had no problem with the time sink of the game as it was.

Just because you are on quests with other players is not inherently "social" gameplay.
You have to choose to be social. Grouping with someone because you need them for a quest isn't being social. Always been the case.

Just because you are in zones with other players is not inherently "social" game play.
Funneling people into org doesn't make the interactions more or less social. Being a hub to find groups didn't make players more social or not, either.

Interacting with people via chat or electronic media is by definition social. Any time you are communicating with other people to accomplish a task it is social. LFR are simply automated means of doing that across multiple servers and taking into account varying metrics across different players when match making. "Social" means actually having to go out and do all that leg work yourself using chat as a means of communication. That is why chat and other forms of electronic messaging are called "social" media. I am not sure why this is even a subject of contention. Being non social in wow would mean just purely engaging in PVE content with no need to communicate or otherwise interact with other people in the game.....

Again, I am not saying that the old chat based system was the "best" system, but it worked for its time and the game as it existed then. Times have changed. And ultimately if there are certain kinds of game play the developer wants to promote in the current game, there has to be incentives, as in the fact of mythic+ being more or less what the OP was asking for.

In legion there is a lot more gated content at max level than in previous expansions. Previously if you just leveled to max either through LFG or questing, the only max level content that was gated was raiding to some degree and that gate was primarily social as guilds wouldn't take you on a raid if you didn't have the required gear. Now in legion, there is a lot more max level stuff you CANT do due to automation. You cant go to the broken shore without the prerequisite quest chains. You cant do world quests without friendly reps. You can't join dungeons or raids without the required item level..... and on and on. But automation today allows players to get much farther in the game without HAVING to be social at all. In fact, leveling and gearing are easier than ever in today's WOW and you can get a level 100 up 110 and item level 900 in two weeks or less and that is without doing all the gated content or even finishing all the leveling zones. And without that "gate" mechanism there is no way folks would go out and actually complete all those zones and quests to get the rep and unlock said gated content. But you can certainly do all the heroic dungeons, mythic+| dungeons and raids you want without unlocking any of that gated content. But people do it because of the rewards and incentives in said content. These are the "tricks" developers use all the time to encourage certain types of game play in their games. So it isn't as "bad" of an idea as people claim it is as they are currently doing exactly that in the game today.

[Drakain]

Then play black desert. Have fun with the mounts. They have immersion.

[kary]

Considering that WOW has been immensely popular starting with Vanilla right through Wrath, there must have been a LOT of people who thought it was a positive experience. That said, folks were asking for LFG, including myself at that time.

CRZ and sharding are a totally separate issue and has nothing to do with LFG. CRZ and sharding came about as a result of trying to handle population fluctuation across servers. It wasn't an issue in Vanilla as most servers were packed, which is why the old system of chat based activity finding worked. That system wouldn't work in today's WOW and I never suggested that it should. What I am saying though is for the game at the start and the way it was designed at the start it worked perfectly fine no matter how many folks bad mouth about it now 10 years later. At the time plenty of folks had no problem with the time sink of the game as it was.



Interacting with people via chat or electronic media is by definition social. Any time you are communicating with other people to accomplish a task it is social. LFR are simply automated means of doing that across multiple servers and taking into account varying metrics across different players when match making. "Social" means actually having to go out and do all that leg work yourself using chat as a means of communication. That is why chat and other forms of electronic messaging are called "social" media. I am not sure why this is even a subject of contention. Being non social in wow would mean just purely engaging in PVE content with no need to communicate or otherwise interact with other people in the game.....

Again, I am not saying that the old chat based system was the "best" system, but it worked for its time and the game as it existed then. Times have changed. And ultimately if there are certain kinds of game play the developer wants to promote in the current game, there has to be incentives, as in the fact of mythic+ being more or less what the OP was asking for.

In legion there is a lot more gated content at max level than in previous expansions. Previously if you just leveled to max either through LFG or questing, the only max level content that was gated was raiding to some degree and that gate was primarily social as guilds wouldn't take you on a raid if you didn't have the required gear. Now in legion, there is a lot more max level stuff you CANT do due to automation. You cant go to the broken shore without the prerequisite quest chains. You cant do world quests without friendly reps. You can't join dungeons or raids without the required item level..... and on and on. But automation today allows players to get much farther in the game without HAVING to be social at all. In fact, leveling and gearing are easier than ever in today's WOW and you can get a level 100 up 110 and item level 900 in two weeks or less and that is without doing all the gated content or even finishing all the leveling zones. And without that "gate" mechanism there is no way folks would go out and actually complete all those zones and quests to get the rep and unlock said gated content. But you can certainly do all the heroic dungeons, mythic+| dungeons and raids you want without unlocking any of that gated content. But people do it because of the rewards and incentives in said content. These are the "tricks" developers use all the time to encourage certain types of game play in their games. So it isn't as "bad" of an idea as people claim it is as they are currently doing exactly that in the game today.

Then sitting in a bank line is social. Cool.

Being non social in wow would mean just purely engaging in PVE content with no need to communicate or otherwise interact with other people in the game.....

Which is something you could do from day 1.
And a lot of people did. There are tons of people who got to level 60 without doing a single dungeon.

[InfiniteCharger]

No, they didn't think it was a positive experience. Maybe go back and read through the thousands of people complaining about wait times, ninja looting, and the general shit show.

LFG was introduced IN Wrath at patch 3.3.0, at a time when the game was at its peak subscription wise. Why do you think that is? Because the player base wanted LFG.

The game was the only one of it's kind and people tolerated what it was. It has evolved because people have asked for it to evolve.

The game was at its peak of popularity BEFORE these systems were introduced.

So if these things were so bad then the game would never have gotten to that number of subs.

And the reason why they added LFG is because people asked for it (and I may have been one of them), but that version of LFG is not the same as the LFG tool we have today. But I never said I was against LFG. I said the game has changed and that the game play of Vanilla through Wrath is different than the game play of today and such a system is definitely beneficial.

Then sitting in a bank line is social. Cool.

If you say so. I don't see where that is the same as playing an MMO and interacting with other people in the game.

Which is something you could do from day 1.
And a lot of people did. There are tons of people who got to level 60 without doing a single dungeon.

You have no way of proving or supporting that statement and you know it. And I didn't say that the definition of "social" in an MMO just meant doing dungeons. I just used the example of organizing dungeon runs in Vanilla as an example of social game play. The game was designed to be social and promote social interaction through chat as a way to accomplish things in game. And people playing the game had to engage in some form of "social communication" and coordination in order to succeed. The QOL things that we take for granted today didn't exist and hence SOCIAL interaction was required. This isn't even debatable.

[mauserr]

Waste everybody's fucking time because you can't help yourselves from not using heirlooms, weak willed manlets. Wait for your fucking classic and piss off with ur shitty suggestions regarding leveling. It's fine the way it is now.

[kary]

The game was at its peak of popularity BEFORE these systems were introduced.

So if these things were so bad then the game would never have gotten to that number of subs.

And the reason why they added LFG is because people asked for it (and I may have been one of them), but that version of LFG is not the same as the LFG tool we have today. But I never said I was against LFG. I said the game has changed and that the game play of Vanilla through Wrath is different than the game play of today and such a system is definitely beneficial.

The peak was with icc patch sorry
Which was LFD patch

[Vynestra]

Can we just sit here and stare at the classic people who say "retailers" are renewing classic when these classic people want to ruin retail? double standard much.

[kary]

Can we just sit here and stare at the classic people who say "retailers" are renewing class when these classic people want to ruin retail? double standard much.

Classic fanbois are retarded, don't waste time trying to apply logic to their actions

[Vynestra]

Classic fanbois are retarded, don't waste time trying to apply logic to their actions

It's like they want classic and then live to be classic: legion edition, or classic: battle for azeroth edition.

like no, you get your classic, leave retail the fuck alone.

[InfiniteCharger]

The peak was with icc patch sorry
Which was LFD patch

The game went to 10 million plus subs prior to that was the point.
Sub numbers ROSE from Vanilla through TBC and into Wrath with all those systems people CLAIM people hated so much.

And subs declined AFTER that, including the introduction of LFG and other QOL stuff..

By your logic subs would have went up higher as a result, but they didn't.

Subs have not been as high ever since.

So again, like I said before, the new style of game play makes sense for the game as it is today.
And the old style of game play made sense and was SUCCESSFUL for the game as it was then.

Please read the above before you try and argue something I am not saying.

[kary]

The game went to 10 million plus subs prior to that was the point.
Sub numbers ROSE from Vanilla through TBC and into Wrath with all those systems people CLAIM people hated so much.

And subs declined AFTER that, including the introduction of LFG and other QOL stuff..

By your logic subs would have went up higher as a result, but they didn't.

Subs have not been as high ever since.

So again, like I said before, the new style of game play makes sense for the game as it is today.
And the old style of game play made sense and was SUCCESSFUL for the game as it was then.

Please read the above before you try and argue something I am not saying.

ICC patch lasted a year.

The decline started after cata. Decline was caused due to dungeons not being faceroll and requiring *gasp* communication and actual throughput.

Nice try though

[Rotted]

No Thanks,

Not that I dont agree dungeon finder removes a lot of the experience but I've levelled countless characters before and after the cataclysm. I've got lore master, I've got my favourite zones to level in and I've got my own power levelling system.

LFD is fine for someone like me. I can only speak from experiance but three of my mates joined wow over the summer, they all levelled in the world and qued for one or two specific dungeons when it was relevant, like ZF. You dont give new players enough credit.

[InfiniteCharger]

ICC patch lasted a year.

The decline started after cata. Decline was caused due to dungeons not being faceroll and requiring *gasp* communication and actual throughput.

Nice try though

Dude. I am not debating with you about sub numbers because that wasn't my point.
The fact is the game of BECAME POPULAR as a result of Vanilla through Wrath.
It was at over 10 million subs BEFORE the introduction of LFG. And it didn't go up much after.
Your argument has no merit at all. The point was if the game was SO BAD in Vanilla then subs would not have gone up. If you can't see that simple fact there is nothing more to say to you.

You are debating with yourself.


And the fact that subs went down AFTER that shows that the game AS IT WAS in Vanilla through TBC was successful.

That is the point and the numbers prove it. No other combination of features and game play has been as successful since.

[Alteiry]

My suggestion for a compromise is that instances in the Dungeon Finder are locked until you've cleared the instance "manually" at least once.

[kary]

Dude. I am not debating with you about sub numbers because that wasn't my point.
The fact is the game of BECAME POPULAR as a result of Vanilla through Wrath.
It was at over 10 million subs BEFORE the introduction of LFG. And it didn't go up much after.
Your argument has no merit at all. The point was if the game was SO BAD in Vanilla then subs would not have gone up.
If you can't see that simple fact there is nothing more to say to you.

You are debating with yourself.

Noone said the game was bad, stop introducing your lack of comprehension as talking points

[Yarathir]

You seem like a prime candidate for something called CLASSIC SERVERS. They have an entire containme-- subforum dedicated to them.

[Deleted]

Noone said the game was bad, stop introducing your lack of comprehension as talking points

So what is your argument?
Is it "the game needed to evolve"?

Yeah because we were primitive apes in Vanilla and now we are a new race called humanolongoid.