Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[Endus]

By sheltering underneath and amidst Palestinian civilians, Hamas presented Israel with the choice of doing nothing after the surprise attack, or put civilians in danger and necessitate evacuation.

I don't agree with those being the only options.

However, taking your claim at face value, when your only options are;

1> Do nothing. Or;
2> Ethnically cleanse the region through genocidal means.

The only remotely ethical option available is "Do nothing". Opting to engage in ethnic cleansing and genocide means you're the one intentionally committing human rights atrocities. You're not forced into that. You chose that. And should be thus condemned for doing so, because those are heinous and evil acts only committed by monsters.

No one forced Israel's hands in this. They volunteered themselves into these brutal war crimes. That's their choice, not a natural outcome from the attacks by Hamas.

You're just openly engaging in genocide apologism at this point.

[Karreck]

By sheltering underneath and amidst Palestinian civilians, Hamas presented Israel with the choice of doing nothing after the surprise attack, or put civilians in danger and necessitate evacuation. When I've before called attention to people that want Israel to do nothing, I'm pointing to the logic of saying stuff like "Hamas didn't displace Palestinians." Do nothing, or Palestinians will be displaced. Wars displace civilians and Hamas launched a surprise attack that started a war.

Israel made the choice to respond the way it did, with indiscriminate bombings and missile strikes that have killed over 25,000 civilians, half of which are children. Israel is responsible for the actions that they elected to take. Hamas did not force Israel to kill children, Israel did it on their own.

I can't force you to reckon with that fact and I can't even force you to base your worldview around the reality of such a fact, but I'm certainly going to point it out to you when that undergirds why you're wrong. You will always have a certain ability to ignore reality while posting on the internet, but Israel is actually forced to deal with reality like wars waged upon it.

Israel is indiscriminately killing Palestinians. That is reality. War does not excuse the reckless killing of civilians.

- - - Updated - - -

You're just openly engaging in genocide apologism at this point.

Because he doesn't see the Palestinian people as, well, people.

[Draco-Onis]

West Bank settlements are absolutely illegal and immoral. The government condoning and promoting that is terrible.

Israel is justified in the Gaza strip and was forced by Hamas. In the same way people here argue that the violence of Israel towards Gazans begets more violence. Violence from Hamas towards Israelis that live in the Gazan border, the people that most closely interact with them and held festivals for reconciliation were attacked by the people of Gaza. That is the message the people of Gaza send to Israel, no reconciliation only violence. So in that Israel's actions are justified.

West Bank is another story bc the Palestinian government there isn't doing much of anything against Israel.

You are missing the point if you are Gaza the Israeli government will murder you, if you lay down your arms and are passive the Israeli government will steal your land and murder you in the West Bank. If Israel wanted peace as they claim the West Bank would be a peaceful alternative life for Palestinians, it would show that if you aren't hostile you can live side by side. Why is Israel raping, murdering, pillaging, stealing money and annexing large swaths of land in the West Bank? How does that "fight Hamas" who aren't in charge there? it's pretty obvious they just want to take land.

Let's also be clear Hamas would never be what it is today without the Israeli government funding it and murdering any member of the leadership who wasn't a nut job because it suited their goals of stopping a Palestinian state. So no they aren't justified since they nurtured the monster, can't complain when it bites you.

[Endus]

Israel made the choice to respond the way it did, with indiscriminate bombings and missile strikes that have killed over 25,000 civilians, half of which are children. Israel is responsible for the actions that they elected to take. Hamas did not force Israel to kill children, Israel did it on their own.

The whole excuse is just incredibly disgusting. It's like if your neighbour, a cop, beat the shit out of you, so you burned his entire house down and barred the doors so his wife and 6 kids couldn't escape the blaze. The cops weren't gonna prosecute their buddy, and you couldn't just "do nothing", right?

Oh, wait. This example is super unfair. Because the reality is Israel's the cop who's been abusing his neighbour for decades, occasionally taking a hit back before beating the shit out of the neighbour yet again, and the one time the neighbour pulls a gun on him, the cop is the one who barricades the neighbour and his family inside the house and burns it all down. Israel has all the power in the region and their responses to Hamas violence have always been out of scale.

This isn't justifying the neighbour, here, either. Pulling a gun over a fistfight's not okay. But if you're going to hand-wring over the tragedy of 1100 innocent deaths while hand-waving the at least 20,000 innocents dead on the other side of an arbitrary line, you're monstrous.

[tehdang]

Israel made the choice to respond the way it did, with indiscriminate bombings and missile strikes that have killed over 25,000 civilians, half of which are children. Israel is responsible for the actions that they elected to take. Hamas did not force Israel to kill children, Israel did it on their own.

Except they weren't indiscriminate, and you have to rely on literal terrorists for the 25,000. Basically, because most every sentence you said here is wrong or unsupported, that makes your conclusions wrong or unsupported.

If you ever retreat from the "indiscriminate bombings" lie, I'm not alleging that the total civilian deaths are 0 or 1 per 10 terrorists killed. It's a war, civilians die as collateral damage in wars, and particularly in wars where the army shelters behind civilians.

Israel is indiscriminately killing Palestinians. That is reality. War does not excuse the reckless killing of civilians.

This is a denial of reality. Israel evacuates civilians. Israel forms evacuation routes. Israel warns and creates safe zones. Israel uses technology to deliver unguided munitions accurately.

If you can't reckon with Hamas starting a war, and wars displacing civilians, then we can't really hold an argument on this subject.

[Endus]

Except they weren't indiscriminate, and you have to rely on literal terrorists for the 25,000.

No, we don't.

Nearly 34,000 dead to date in Gaza. Unless you're counting every single adult male as a Hamas militant (which would be egregiously dishonest and demonstrate genocidal intent in and of itself), the number of innocents easily hits 25,000. Especially given current figures are only confirmed deaths and do not include people who may still be buried under rubble.

That high civilian death count demonstrates how indiscriminate the attacks are all by itself. Even if we ignore the intentional and direct attacks on refugees, aid workers, and journalists, which we really shouldn't.

If you ever retreat from the "indiscriminate bombings" lie, I'm not alleging that the total civilian deaths are 0 or 1 per 10 terrorists killed. It's a war, civilians die as collateral damage in wars, and particularly in wars where the army shelters behind civilians.

The occasional, accidental death, yes.

Not the overwhelming majority of those killed.

This is a denial of reality. Israel evacuates civilians. Israel forms evacuation routes. Israel warns and creates safe zones. Israel uses technology to deliver unguided munitions accurately.

Israel pushing civilians into concentration camps is not a plus.

Israel forms evacuation routes, and then bombs those routes and those fleeing along them.

Israel establishes safe zones, and then bombs them.

Israel does indeed use technology to accurately target civilians. Nobody's denying they have the tech to hit the targets they intend to hit. We take issue with those targets being civilian.

You're openly pushing Israeli propaganda and disinformation, denying the truth of what's actually happening in Gaza.

[Muzjhath]

To compare apples to apples, a little under 2 million Palestinians are internally displaced because a terrorist organization, Hamas, successfully executed a surprise attack on Israel that killed or kidnapped 1400+ people, and retreated behind the civilian population to dissuade any accountability.

The rest relies on the same ridiculous definition of Palestinian refugee where having a relative in Palestine in 1946 means you are still displaced in from your homes. Including Palestinians that have lived three generations in another country, have citizenship in a different country, are elected representatives within another country, and earn millions of dollars while settled in another country. People who have never met a single relative that ever lived in Palestine. Incidentally, if Israelis were applied the same definition of refugee or displaced person in perpetuity, then many millions of Israelis are refugees and displaced peoples for the atrocities committed in the Middle East against them that forced their flight to the nation of Israel.

A nation that's needed more now than ever.

Then what about the fucking West Bank?
Are Hamas causing the Israeli attrocities there!?

- - - Updated - - -

Israel has had to battle terrorists under many banners throughout its history. PLO, PFLP, PIJ, Hezbollah, Black September (BSO), IJ (IJO), and the list goes on. If you wanted to, you could review the history and divide and categorize the arab nationalist terrorism from islamist terrorism and Israel's attempts to negotiate them and survive.

Israel created all of the bolded.

- - - Updated - - -

West Bank settlements are absolutely illegal and immoral. The government condoning and promoting that is terrible.

Israel is justified in the Gaza strip and was forced by Hamas. In the same way people here argue that the violence of Israel towards Gazans begets more violence. Violence from Hamas towards Israelis that live in the Gazan border, the people that most closely interact with them and held festivals for reconciliation were attacked by the people of Gaza. That is the message the people of Gaza send to Israel, no reconciliation only violence. So in that Israel's actions are justified.

West Bank is another story bc the Palestinian government there isn't doing much of anything against Israel.

The problem is that they aren't.
And they aren't ending Hamas. They might end this edition of Hamas.

But please, how did Ending Al-Qaida go?

[Karreck]

Except they weren't indiscriminate, and you have to rely on literal terrorists for the 25,000. Basically, because most every sentence you said here is wrong or unsupported, that makes your conclusions wrong or unsupported.

This shows how limited your knowledge on the situation is. Allow me to correct this lack of understanding. There are more ways of assessing causality numbers than just Hamas statements.
Let's look at what experts say.
https://time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-relea...conflict-oxfam
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/29/12341...rael-hamas-war

Plus, we have ground reports from aid agencies giving us great examples of the horrors Israel is purposefully inflicting on the people of Gaza.

If you ever retreat from the "indiscriminate bombings" lie, I'm not alleging that the total civilian deaths are 0 or 1 per 10 terrorists killed. It's a war, civilians die as collateral damage in wars, and particularly in wars where the army shelters behind civilians.

How long have Hamas and Israel been fighting? If you believe that civilian causalities just happen in war and should be accepted, never challenged, then why are you so upset about October 7th? By your own logic, they were just "collateral damage".
Or do you only get upset about the targeting of civilians when its Israeli civilians being targeted?

Oh, and Israel is also trying to kill civilians indirectly by cutting off access to food and water.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/...eapon-war-gaza

This is a denial of reality. Israel evacuates civilians. Israel forms evacuation routes. Israel warns and creates safe zones. Israel uses technology to deliver unguided munitions accurately.

Israel attacks evacuation routes.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/16/middl...nvs/index.html

Israel attacks where it directed civilian evacuees to go.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middl...cmd/index.html

Over half of Israel's bombs are not guided and instead just dropped over a target.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/polit...aza/index.html

If you can't reckon with Hamas starting a war, and wars displacing civilians, then we can't really hold an argument on this subject.

If you can't reckon with the atrocities Israel is committing on a civilian population, then you should run away from this argument like you normally do when you are challenged.

[tehdang]

Then what about the fucking West Bank?
Are Hamas causing the Israeli attrocities there!?

What about the "fucking West Bank?" You think the poster I'm responding to believes 14 million displaced Palestinians live there? You think the West Bank is responsible for Hezbollah attacking northern Israel and forcing the evacuations of around a hundred thousand there?

I brought up Hezbollah & the north of Israel as a subject of a news article, not the West Bank.

Israel created all of the bolded.

This is just abuser talk. "Look at what you made me do," to blame the terrorists killing Jews on the Jews themselves. I can find you some neonazis that really think the Jews in German society brought on their own destruction through failure to integrate into German society, and you can go laugh with them on how the Jewish state created several terrorist regimes devoted to the destruction of the Jewish state. Good bedfellows, and frankly motivated by similar attitudes.

- - - Updated - - -

This shows how limited your knowledge on the situation is. Allow me to correct this lack of understanding. There are more ways of assessing causality numbers than just Hamas statements.
Let's look at what experts say.
https://time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-relea...conflict-oxfam
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/29/12341...rael-hamas-war

Plus, we have ground reports from aid agencies giving us great examples of the horrors Israel is purposefully inflicting on the people of Gaza.

I already said "you have to rely on literal terrorists for the 25,000" and linking news stories that say the same is simply repetition. "Gaza's health ministry said Thursday that the number of Palestinians killed in the war has surpassed 30,000" and "The health ministry's official database was made public" ... yes, I already said you're relying on Hamas to provide these numbers. The same goes for reporting peacetime reliance and applying that to wartime (hint: Hamas wants the war to end, so the government departments want to create numbers that makes the war untenable to western audiences). Don't worry though, I can also link you some observation and analysis as you did:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/n...sualty-numbers

And the latest, a sudden admission that some third of its records were incomplete:
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04...casualty-data/
(If you have to abandon a third of your total suddenly, then maybe it isn't worth a damn from the start)

How long have Hamas and Israel been fighting? If you believe that civilian causalities just happen in war and should be accepted, never challenged, then why are you so upset about October 7th? By your own logic, they were just "collateral damage".
Or do you only get upset about the targeting of civilians when its Israeli civilians being targeted?

Oh, and Israel is also trying to kill civilians indirectly by cutting off access to food and water.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/18/...eapon-war-gaza

I don't see how their length of fighting has any bearing on your claims of "indiscriminate bombing," and you don't provide any further explanation here. If I should take the pivot to food and water to mean you no longer think that Israel indiscriminately bombs civilians, then let me know.

Also, comparing the Hamas attacks on civilians on October 7th to collateral damage from airstrikes on Hamas betrays a deeply troubling comprehension of October 7th. Hamas barricaded the entrances to kibbutzim in order to go house to house massacring, torturing, and kidnapping Israeli civilians without interruption. Planned to maximize civilian slaughter, well-executed in that goal, and videotaped. It is very troubling to me to hear that airstrikes on Hamas that also injure or kill civilians is similar to hunting civilians within their homes and burning them alive in their safe rooms or torturing and raping them. If you know all this and still find some way to justify or equivocate, then I only wish to spread your example as a reason Israel must exist as an independent nation.

Israel attacks evacuation routes.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/16/middl...nvs/index.html

Article points to airstrikes not on evacuation routes.

Israel attacks where it directed civilian evacuees to go.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middl...cmd/index.html

Unnamed experts say the evacuations have been confusing and contradictory, without explanation.

Over half of Israel's bombs are not guided and instead just dropped over a target.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/polit...aza/index.html

This isn't WW2 era bomb-sights. Israel has the technology to deliver unguided bombs to specific targets.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/iaf-ga...es-can-happen/

If you can't reckon with the atrocities Israel is committing on a civilian population, then you should run away from this argument like you normally do when you are challenged.

You haven't once admitted that a surprise attack on Israel would inevitably lead to a counterattack, and such a counterattack would naturally displace civilians. The only people that can blame Israel for displacing civilians do expect them to do nothing after October 7th.

[Mayhem]

The trouble comes in when you try to transition from IDF actions in Gaza to whatabout settler violence in the West Bank, or ignore Hezbollah in northern israel because whatabout settler violence in the West Bank. The frequency in which this is done gives rise to people asking for others to condemn Hamas and Hezbollah. Is the topic actually relevant to the discussion because the poster is trying to justify the continued rocket attacks in the north, or get out of needing to respond on that subject? Do they presume its impossible for someone to support IDF actions in Gaza, but also condemn settler violence?

If all you're doing is playing games, do Israelis get to play the same games and whatabout the murdered teenager from a settlement in the West Bank (Have you not mentioned him in the rioting because you think the murder may be excused?) If you're really all about "they will ignore that too," is that a standard you're willing to hold yourself too, or does that only apply to the other guy? I wouldn't want to think that you hold one standard for when you accuse others of ignoring something, but a different standard for when others accuse you. If you need an example, are you ignoring that Iran has been smuggling weapons into the West Bank and that the IDF has arrested more than 1,000 Hamas-associated persons within the West Bank, because clearly you're only focused on Israeli settlers in the West Bank?

Yeah, just shut up with your whataboutism, you constantly ignored the West Bank when it was brought up in context. I am still waiting for a bunch of answers from you, but as per usual, you just vanish or jump straight to the next poster that talks about something you think you have a leg up.

As to your question, I condemn every civilian death. At the same time, a murdered teenager doesn't give carte blanche to Israeli settlers and the IDF to just do whatever they want. West Bank is occupied territory, there are rules in place and Israel has a duty to defend everyone living there not just Israeli settlers.

To the arrests of Hamas-associated persons in the West Bank, are you asking me to praise the IDF for doing its job? How many Israeli settles have been arrested or is harassing and killing civilians fine if Israeli settlers do it? Are 1000 Hamas-associated persons held like the thousands of Palestinians in Israeli prisons without charges?

And a question you sure as hell will not answer. What would you do if the occupying forces are helping settlers to seize land, stand by when they commit acts of violence and even your own police forces aren't allowed to do anything?

Would you just tuck your dick between your legs and roll over?

[Ihavewaffles]

If israel attacks iran, again, then iran won't be so nice to give advance warning again n will probably launch way more stuff.

Maybe bibi wants this, drag usa into war

[Mayhem]

I, personally, would not mind one bit almost whole of West Bank going away and being the basis for the future Palestinian state, as a matter of fact I'd like government to invest less in there and more in where I am living.

However, after the result of us leaving Gaza as a freebie back in 2005, I do not support any similar action without actual signed agreement to settle this and actual real guarantees for us it won't turn into another Gaza-like Hamastan. And you can bet - Hamas and the likes are trying hard to turn it into just that.

Why I'd go ahead and give them half Jerusalem too, because I'm not religious and could not give less damn about it. But I do want something real in return and not some words and empty promises like in Oslo accords.

I love how you just keep ignoring that the Netanyahu government helped fund Hamas and paint it as if they did it all on their own and Israel had no hand in it.

"Look, we totally left Gaza to the Palestinians, sure we kept control of the airspace, the sea and land border, their water and energy supply, but besides all of that they could totally do whatever they wanted, except import whatever they wanted and travel wherever they wanted because we kept a tight eye on that too, but everything else freebie."

Yeah, if you do that with the West Bank as well it probably will lead to terrorists seize control, so maybe don't do that and later pretend you did nothing.

[Karreck]

I already said "you have to rely on literal terrorists for the 25,000" and linking news stories that say the same is simply repetition. "Gaza's health ministry said Thursday that the number of Palestinians killed in the war has surpassed 30,000" and "The health ministry's official database was made public" ... yes, I already said you're relying on Hamas to provide these numbers. The same goes for reporting peacetime reliance and applying that to wartime (hint: Hamas wants the war to end, so the government departments want to create numbers that makes the war untenable to western audiences). Don't worry though, I can also link you some observation and analysis as you did:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/n...sualty-numbers

You clearly didn't read the articles I posted. One in particular made it very clear that numbers could be verified using other means, and those means are showing not much variance between the Gaza Health Ministry reports and their own analysis figures. The NPR article even links to the Lancet reporting on the historic accuracy of the Gaza Health Ministry finding an error rating of 1-3%.

Maybe you should try actually reading sometime. It would keep you from looking foolish.

I don't see how their length of fighting has any bearing on your claims of "indiscriminate bombing," and you don't provide any further explanation here. If I should take the pivot to food and water to mean you no longer think that Israel indiscriminately bombs civilians, then let me know.

Just showing further proof of Israels genocide and how it goes beyond military strikes. The connection is pretty obvious, or are you being purposefully obtuse again?

Also, comparing the Hamas attacks on civilians on October 7th to collateral damage from airstrikes on Hamas betrays a deeply troubling comprehension of October 7th. Hamas barricaded the entrances to kibbutzim in order to go house to house massacring, torturing, and kidnapping Israeli civilians without interruption. Planned to maximize civilian slaughter, well-executed in that goal, and videotaped. It is very troubling to me to hear that airstrikes on Hamas that also injure or kill civilians is similar to hunting civilians within their homes and burning them alive in their safe rooms or torturing and raping them. If you know all this and still find some way to justify or equivocate, then I only wish to spread your example as a reason Israel must exist as an independent nation.

So you DO know what targeting civilians looks like! Wonder why you can't apply that same level of indignation towards Israel targeting civilians. Is it because they are Muslim? I bet it's because they are Muslim.

And so we are clear, I am not comparing October 7th to collateral damage. I am saying that Israel has been, and still is, targeting civilians just like Hamas targeted civilians on October 7th. Israel just has more effective ways at killing children than Hamas does.

This isn't WW2 era bomb-sights. Israel has the technology to deliver unguided bombs to specific targets.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/iaf-ga...es-can-happen/

Unguided bombs are by their nature, wait for it, unguided! I worked on this shit in my service days kiddo. I wonder if there is a sample list of munitions that America has sold to Israel that I, a former Ammo troop, would be able to check out and evaluate.
Guess what, I am right!
https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/maj...rael-munitions
All the explosive ordinance on that list is, by default, unguided. It has to be modified to be made guided, but can easily be used without modification. And multiple reports are showing that Israel is just raw dogging it about half the time and going default unguided.

Also, Israeli propaganda is your source? Really? Bet you believe everything Bibi says too huh?

You haven't once admitted that a surprise attack on Israel would inevitably lead to a counterattack, and such a counterattack would naturally displace civilians. The only people that can blame Israel for displacing civilians do expect them to do nothing after October 7th.

Israel is displacing civilians. This is a known fact, and yet you keep trying to argue it.

[ati87]

No, we don't.

Nearly 34,000 dead to date in Gaza. Unless you're counting every single adult male as a Hamas militant (which would be egregiously dishonest and demonstrate genocidal intent in and of itself), the number of innocents easily hits 25,000. Especially given current figures are only confirmed deaths and do not include people who may still be buried under rubble.

That high civilian death count demonstrates how indiscriminate the attacks are all by itself. Even if we ignore the intentional and direct attacks on refugees, aid workers, and journalists, which we really shouldn't.

Israel and the online propaganda warriors are counting every male as a Hamas fighter though, the whole "AI"reporting and the follow-ups defacto confirm this. And once you brand every male as a terrorist, it's easy to say that they are hiding between civilians and then the death counts makes sense.

[Mayhem]

Don't worry though, I can also link you some observation and analysis as you did:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/n...sualty-numbers

Wow, that reads like a full on psychopath wrote it. A not very bright one too. There should be more deviation in people killed each day (who the fuck thinks like that?). Also, this ignores the reality of the situation. Like, there are no places to work freely without fearing for your life. They have limited technology to work with and probably have to count everything by hand because computers stupidly rely on energy.

And the latest, a sudden admission that some third of its records were incomplete:
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04...casualty-data/
(If you have to abandon a third of your total suddenly, then maybe it isn't worth a damn from the start)

Your reading comprehension and whoever wrote that piece of reporting are on the same level. "OMG they are lying and tell on themselves for no reason at all because no one else is verifying the numbers". Hard to comprehend that in wartimes when even foreign aid workers aren't safe from being killed by the IDF Gaza health ministry workers could just without any issue do the needed work. I mean, even Israel had to revise their death toll without being in a war zone. So obviously that means Israel has an agenda and is lying! (So if Israel had to abandon 20% of the total death toll, then maybe it isn't worth a damn from the start.) - tehdang's logic

It went from more than 1400 to more than 1200 to currently 1139 .. also it went from targeted civilians to just about 700 civilian casualties. Judging by line of reasoning, that is a pretty great ratio. That's only 2 civilians for every soldier killed.

This isn't WW2 era bomb-sights. Israel has the technology to deliver unguided bombs to specific targets.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/iaf-ga...es-can-happen/

Well, you probably should tell the US about it because apparently even the US intelligence says Israel used dumb bombs en masse.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/13/p...aza/index.html

Come to think of it, Israel already dropped almost as many bombs as it estimated Hamas fighters existed. So 1 bomb for every Hamas fighter. That's seems a bit over the top.

[Ihavewaffles]

AI? Future wars will be fun when tailored for efficiancy...how long until ai decides it'll just be easier to get ridd of all humans to achieve peace?

[ati87]

Yeah, just shut up with your whataboutism, you constantly ignored the West Bank when it was brought up in context. I am still waiting for a bunch of answers from you, but as per usual, you just vanish or jump straight to the next poster that talks about something you think you have a leg up.

As to your question, I condemn every civilian death. At the same time, a murdered teenager doesn't give carte blanche to Israeli settlers and the IDF to just do whatever they want. West Bank is occupied territory, there are rules in place and Israel has a duty to defend everyone living there not just Israeli settlers.

To the arrests of Hamas-associated persons in the West Bank, are you asking me to praise the IDF for doing its job? How many Israeli settles have been arrested or is harassing and killing civilians fine if Israeli settlers do it? Are 1000 Hamas-associated persons held like the thousands of Palestinians in Israeli prisons without charges?

And a question you sure as hell will not answer. What would you do if the occupying forces are helping settlers to seize land, stand by when they commit acts of violence and even your own police forces aren't allowed to do anything?

Would you just tuck your dick between your legs and roll over?

The whole murdered person so we got to go and burn down a village sounds way too much like that the KKK used to do.
I have my doubts that all those people who got dragged down from prison or the courts actually committed the crime before the KKK decided to lynch them, and by the very same standard I have my doubts that the Israeli teenager got murdered by palestinians.

Will an investigation by Israeli officials blame a Palestinian? Pff probably, but just like during the segregation (and even sometimes right now) it's often easier to just say "this violent savage N****R/Palestinian" did it" and then just punish somebody.

[Mayhem]

The whole murdered person so we got to go and burn down a village sounds way too much like that the KKK used to do.
I have my doubts that all those people who got dragged down from prison or the courts actually committed the crime before the KKK decided to lynch them, and by the very same standard I have my doubts that the Israeli teenager got murdered by palestinians.

Will an investigation by Israeli officials blame a Palestinian? Pff probably, but just like during the segregation (and even sometimes right now) it's often easier to just say "this violent savage N****R/Palestinian" did it" and then just punish somebody.

If there even is an investigation. Wouldn't be the first time Israel kind of forgets about law and order.

[Draco-Onis]

Blinken Is Sitting on Staff Recommendations to Sanction Israeli Military Units Linked to Killings or Rapes

A special State Department panel recommended months ago that Secretary of State Antony Blinken disqualify multiple Israeli military and police units from receiving U.S. aid after reviewing allegations that they committed serious human rights abuses.

But Blinken has failed to act on the proposal in the face of growing international criticism of the Israeli military’s conduct in Gaza, according to current and former State Department officials.

The incidents under review mostly took place in the West Bank and occurred before Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack on Israel. They include reports of extrajudicial killings by the Israeli Border Police; an incident in which a battalion gagged, handcuffed and left an elderly Palestinian American man for dead; and an allegation that interrogators tortured and raped a teenager who had been accused of throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails.

Recommendations for action against Israeli units were sent to Blinken in December, according to one person familiar with the memo. “They’ve been sitting in his briefcase since then,” another official said.

A State Department spokesperson told ProPublica the agency takes its commitment to uphold U.S. human rights laws seriously. “This process is one that demands a careful and full review,” the spokesperson said, “and the department undergoes a fact-specific investigation applying the same standards and procedures regardless of the country in question.”

The revelations about Blinken’s failure to act on the recommendations come at a delicate moment in U.S.-Israel relations. Six months into its war against Hamas, whose militants massacred 1,200 Israelis and kidnapped 240 more on Oct. 7, the Israeli military has killed more than 33,000 Palestinians, according to local authorities. Recently, President Joe Biden has signaled increased frustration with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the widespread civilian casualties.

Multiple State Department officials who have worked on Israeli relations said that Blinken’s inaction has undermined Biden’s public criticism, sending a message to the Israelis that the administration was not willing to take serious steps.

The recommendations came from a special committee of State Department officials known as the Israel Leahy Vetting Forum. The panel, made up of Middle East and human rights experts, is named for former Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., the chief author of 1997 laws that requires the U.S. to cut off assistance to any foreign military or law enforcement units — from battalions of soldiers to police stations — that are credibly accused of flagrant human rights violations.

Just in case anyone wants to continue denying that the US administration doesn't see any evidence of genocide, they know genocide Joe is sitting on it pretending it doesn't exist.

UN agency accuses Israel of detaining, coercing staffers into false confessions about ties to Hamas

Funny how the government is ignoring this now and keep on defunding UNRWA.

[PACOX]

Blinken Is Sitting on Staff Recommendations to Sanction Israeli Military Units Linked to Killings or Rapes



Just in case anyone wants to continue denying that the US administration doesn't see any evidence of genocide, they know genocide Joe is sitting on it pretending it doesn't exist.

UN agency accuses Israel of detaining, coercing staffers into false confessions about ties to Hamas

Funny how the government is ignoring this now and keep on defunding UNRWA.

But there was that one US secretary that said Israel did nothing wrong. How couod this be


One a more serious note. There's no one actually steering the ship with some people still trying to play it both ways. So once again not enough is bound to happen. Israel will continue to escalate.

Im not sure if anyone linked the article but somewhat related to Israel trying to slander UNRWA (most countries have resumed funding after Israel lies, except the US of course), the UN said Israel is also interfering in the UNs Oct 7th investigation. The UN reports that witnesses are being told to not cooperate with the UN, that it can't be trusted.