Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Sunseeker]

Anytime someone asks, I'm Canadian (which isn't even untrue). At best, "Recovering American". Want to keep up the derail here or nah?

No, because I dont consider you an American either. So I dont think you get a share of the rewards or penalties for being part of America. So Im a bit puzzled why you injected yourself into the discussion.

[Benggaul]

No, because I dont consider you an American either. So I dont think you get a share of the rewards or penalties for being part of America. So Im a bit puzzled why you injected yourself into the discussion.

Because you were specifically referencing voting/not voting making one responsible. I've still voted in every state/federal election I'm eligible for, FWIW.

And this is still all a big derail for the Russia thread.

[Sunseeker]

Because you were specifically referencing voting/not voting making one responsible. I've still voted in every state/federal election I'm eligible for, FWIW.

And this is still all a big derail for the Russia thread.

Oh, you're one of those expats. Remind me to disregard your opinion forthwith.

[Benggaul]

Oh, you're one of those expats. Remind me to disregard your opinion forthwith.

That makes no sense whatsoever but you do you kiddo.

[Flarelaine]

Let us just leave it at that.

[Corvus]

The mafia petrostate has gone from a fuel exporter to now importing fuel from Belarus. It's not a huge amount currently, about 3000 tons this month, but they are in talks to import more.

https://money.usnews.com/investing/n...upplies-shrink

Ukraine's drone strikes on refineries are having an impact.

[Iphie]

The mafia petrostate has gone from a fuel exporter to now importing fuel from Belarus. It's not a huge amount currently, about 3000 tons this month, but they are in talks to import more.

https://money.usnews.com/investing/n...upplies-shrink

Ukraine's drone strikes on refineries are having an impact.

I'm sure they could be self sufficient still...but that would probably mean they can't honour their agreements with India and China, which would not be a good idea for them. (I have NO doubt that the special "unlimited" friendship would really quickly evaporate)

[Corvus]

Another russian su27 has gone down. The consensus from both sides was this was another friendly fire incident.

Someone is going to be joining the next meat attack though, as this was over the black sea near Crimea where no Ukrainian planes fly.

- - - Updated - - -

Russia has used its veto to shut down the UN body investigating violations of North Korean sanctions because they were investigating russia violating the sanctions.

[Slirith]

Another russian su27 has gone down. The consensus from both sides was this was another friendly fire incident.

Someone is going to be joining the next meat attack though, as this was over the black sea near Crimea where no Ukrainian planes fly.

- - - Updated - - -

Russia has used its veto to shut down the UN body investigating violations of North Korean sanctions because they were investigating russia violating the sanctions.

I still find the fact that one country can veto shit without a majority is ridiculous.

[Azadina]

Russia has used its veto to shut down the UN body investigating violations of North Korean sanctions because they were investigating russia violating the sanctions.

Veto is a complete joke. Yea, why not let criminals decide if they should be investigated or not? What could possibly go wrong.

[Wilian]

Veto is a complete joke. Yea, why not let criminals decide if they should be investigated or not? What could possibly go wrong.

At this stage I would declare UN even more worthless than League of Nations prior but it still serves some function in peacekeeping of some parts of world..

[Odinfrost]

Veto powers should be stripped from countries. And if that is too outrageous for those countries, at least they have to be stripped if said country is directly involved in the matter. Like Russia being unable to veto an investigation into Russia

[Gorsameth]

the UN makes a lot more sense when you stop seeing it as some sort of global peace force and more as a way for Nuclear powers to say "no you can't do that".
Because that is why the UN is. Not for nothing that the Security Council, with its veto's, are all the major nuclear powers of the time.

[Iphie]

the UN makes a lot more sense when you stop seeing it as some sort of global peace force and more as a way for Nuclear powers to say "no you can't do that".
Because that is why the UN is. Not for nothing that the Security Council, with its veto's, are all the major nuclear powers of the time.

Taiwan was never a nuclear power though...

The Government of the Republic of China (ROC) (now Taiwan) used its Security Council veto only once, to stop the admission of the Mongolian People's Republic to the United Nations in 1955 on the grounds it recognized all of Mongolia as a part of China. During the 1950s the PRC began to demand to be recognized by the UN instead of the Government of the ROC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_...United_Nations

(other than that you are quite right)

[Kralljin]

the UN makes a lot more sense when you stop seeing it as some sort of global peace force and more as a way for Nuclear powers to say "no you can't do that".

Bit backwards since by the time UN security council was founded, only a single nation had the nuclear bomb.

The UN should be seen as the "We won WW2" club, hence why initially Tawain was included as most nations recognized them as the legitimate representative of the Chinese, until reality forced them to acknowledge Mao Zedongs government as its legitimate representative.

However, pretty much all victors of WW2 later acquired the bomb.

[ringpriest]

Bit backwards since by the time UN security council was founded, only a single nation had the nuclear bomb.

The UN should be seen as the "We won WW2" club, hence why initially Tawain was included as most nations recognized them as the legitimate representative of the Chinese, until reality forced them to acknowledge Mao Zedongs government as its legitimate representative.

However, pretty much all victors of WW2 later acquired the bomb.

It did start as the "We won WWII" club, but it became the "we're all still talking club", which is its primary purpose. The Security Council veto works great for its intended goal: it keeps everyone at the table (because if you leave, you can't exercise your veto, as the Soviets found out with the Korean War). When it comes to international relations in a world full of nuclear weapons, keeping everyone at the table is really important. It's not a magical panacea. The mere existence of the UN and the Security Council doesn't absolutely prevent war between global powers. But it helps a lot.

[Kralljin]

It did start as the "We won WWII" club, but it became the "we're all still talking club", which is its primary purpose.

The point of that statement is more to explain why the rules favour a certain group of nations - the ones that won WWII, not because they have a nuclear bomb.

You don't get a permanent seat and veto rights by the virtue of owning a nuclear bomb.

[Edge-]

Veto powers should be stripped from countries. And if that is too outrageous for those countries, at least they have to be stripped if said country is directly involved in the matter. Like Russia being unable to veto an investigation into Russia

It's mostly a reminder of how pointless and ineffective the UN has to be to exist.



This remains a fairly accurate representation of the effectiveness of the UN, generally.

[Azadina]

the UN makes a lot more sense when you stop seeing it as some sort of global peace force and more as a way for Nuclear powers to say "no you can't do that".
Because that is why the UN is. Not for nothing that the Security Council, with its veto's, are all the major nuclear powers of the time.

Everyone knows about RuZZias and NK's bullshittery, and having investigation officially confirm what everyone already knows would change next to nothing at all. It's a completely useless veto on a subject that barely affects them, except now they don't even have to pick an excuse from their long list they have prepared.

So regardless of how you look at it, it still is a complete joke. If vetos were used on actually serious matters with real consequences, that'd be different, but when they're used even on trivial stuff like the equivalent of airing dirty laundry just because one can, well...you know..

[diller]

The veto rights in the UN are stupid and shouldn't be there, I assume they are there because otherwise the countries (specifically the US) would just stop being members (Just like the US don't recognize the International Criminal Court)