Dawntrail

[Katchii]

Post-EW (and Endwalker in general) wasn't up to previous standards in my opinion, but it wasn't bad by any means.



The 13th thing felt weird because we've heard different stories about it over time, and it finally culminates in, "What if we just had some Light?" which feels really weird given that previously we were led to believe that even the Ascians felt that they had to write the entire world off completely as a total loss.

It may just be me, but I feel like sometimes it's fine for there to be things in a story that simply can't be fixed or magicked away. The events of a story can quickly start to lose gravity when there's literally nothing that can't just be fixed. (Including imminent demise, in many cases!)

I don't disagree with the idea that it's OK to leave things broken and everything doesn't have to be fixed. However, a huge part of the post Shadowbringers MSQ, along with the Eden raid series, deals specifically with being able to address imbalances in aether whether it be in a person or in the planet/star itself. Fixing the Void, awash in Darkness by bringing in the Light, while incredibly cliche and hokey, is well within the scope of the narrative up to this point.

[Tech614]

Forgot to quote this part, but yeah...other than "Started with some Dark, got some Light" there's really no reason to see Zero as a Cecil copy/paste - or a copy of any other FF4 character, really.

"Outside of all the things that make her a stand in for Cecil she's actually not a stand in"

Like just because she is the least copied character arc in the whole story doesn't change the fact she is a stand in. She can just stand on her own two feet because she will be an important character in the future outside of being the Cecil stand in she was for that arc. Unlike most of the other shit from that story which won't lead to anything, Durante maybe gets a future cameo but Zero is the only thing MSQ relevant for the future.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't disagree with the idea that it's OK to leave things broken and everything doesn't have to be fixed. However, a huge part of the post Shadowbringers MSQ, along with the Eden raid series, deals specifically with being able to address imbalances in aether whether it be in a person or in the planet/star itself. Fixing the Void, awash in Darkness by bringing in the Light, while incredibly cliche and hokey, is well within the scope of the narrative up to this point.

I don't think fixing the void is going to be a major plot point, maybe in the distant future if they run out of ideas. Instead I think the entire point of the story was Zero, learning how they have the power to cross worlds which will eventually lead to breaking important character out of first prison so they can be used again and in turn the first can also be used again.

[Katchii]

And yet that's literally how the game worked for three entire expansions. Trials came in two forms - part of the core MSQ (including the trial that ends the core story and a second trial that concludes the patch content for that story arc), and then a second set exploring a separate but related narrative released during and after the patch MSQ.

HW had Warring Triad, SB had Four Lords, ShB had Sorrow of Werlyt. EW bucked the trend and the entire product suffered for it. There's a reason they kept doing what they were doing, it fucking works. And just because it isn't the core MSQ doesn't mean it's not relevant or important. All three narratives have been tied back into the MSQ and referenced numerous times.

Sorry, I misread or misunderstood what you wrote initially.

I still disagree with your take, that the entire product suffered by having all the trials from the expansion be part of the MSQ, but I do understand why you feel that not having any non MSQ related separate trials wasn't a good thing. More content, especially optional content, is better.

[Tech614]

There was 8 trials in EW, there was 8 trials in ShB so all but 1 being tied to MSQ didn't lead to less trials.

EW had 1 less extreme which I guess is not ideal but it's like like attaching the trials to the MSQ somehow made them far less in number. HW also had 7 extremes and SB had 8 iirc so they been roughly in that same ballpark forever.

[Katchii]

I don't think fixing the void is going to be a major plot point, maybe in the distant future if they run out of ideas. Instead I think the entire point of the story was Zero, learning how they have the power to cross worlds which will eventually lead to breaking important character out of first prison so they can be used again and in turn the first can also be used again.

I don't know when it will be a major plot point, but fixing the 13th/ the Void will be a major plot point somewhere in the future. It would be silly for it not to be given how much emphasis there's been throughout the narrative from ARR through EW about it and how much they could probably do with it. They used it as a good excuse to bring a new character into the narrative as well with Zero, but I don't think that was the only or entire point of it.

Crossing worlds is also going to be a huge story point, for many reasons. They can already cross to the 13th, but finding how to cross worlds will open up all the other surviving fragments as well as potential destinations for future stories, and as you mentioned finally be able to get back to the First to...do whatever the folks need/ want to do on the first (Yshtola reunite with her cult, Thancred reunite with Ryne, Graha to reunite with his people, etc...).

- - - Updated - - -

There was 8 trials in EW, there was 8 trials in ShB so all but 1 being tied to MSQ didn't lead to less trials.

EW had 1 less extreme which I guess is not ideal but it's like like attaching the trials to the MSQ somehow made them far less in number.

The complaint was that all 8 trials from EW were tied directly to the MSQ instead of having some being MSQ related and some be optional side content. There was no discussion as to the numbers.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just clarifying what the original complaint was (it wasn't my complaint).

[Tech614]

The complaint was that all 8 trials from EW were tied directly to the MSQ instead of having some being MSQ related and some be optional side content. There was no discussion as to the numbers.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just clarifying what the original complaint was (it wasn't my complaint).

That's what I'm saying though, I don't think they have the resources to just pull 3 more trials out of their ass and do both. It's not a problem either way, quest lines don't have to be attached to trials to be interesting so it doesn't really matter what they're attached to as long as they are putting out the same amount of content it doesn't matter to me what the trials themselves are tied to.

If the person just wants more interesting side quests, for sure- they don't need trials attached to them to be interesting though so if they want to attach all trials to MSQ so the most casual players do them then by all means.

TBH it also added variance to the roulette, as them being MSQ meant everyone at that point unlocked them. Barely ever saw weapon trials pop in ShB maybe once a week if lucky- but see the EW post MSQ trials all the time.

[Katchii]

That's what I'm saying though, I don't think they have the resources to just pull 3 more trials out of their ass and do both. It's not a problem either way, quest lines don't have to be attached to trials to be interesting so it doesn't really matter what they're attached to as long as they are putting out the same amount of content it doesn't matter to me what the trials themselves are tied to.

If the person just wants more interesting side quests, for sure- they don't need trials attached to them to be interesting though so if they want to attach all trials to MSQ so the most casual players do them then by all means.

Yup, fair. I hadn't realized that there wasn't really any difference in the number of trials before responding. You can ignore the second part of that post that talks about more content/ optional content being good.

[Ghost of Cow]

"Outside of all the things that make her a stand in for Cecil she's actually not a stand in"

Glad that you've at least walked back from the "copy/paste" rhetoric in favor of "stand-in" (read: reference), if nothing else.

[Grinning Serpent]

That's what I'm saying though, I don't think they have the resources to just pull 3 more trials out of their ass and do both. It's not a problem either way, quest lines don't have to be attached to trials to be interesting so it doesn't really matter what they're attached to as long as they are putting out the same amount of content it doesn't matter to me what the trials themselves are tied to.

If the person just wants more interesting side quests, for sure- they don't need trials attached to them to be interesting though so if they want to attach all trials to MSQ so the most casual players do them then by all means.

TBH it also added variance to the roulette, as them being MSQ meant everyone at that point unlocked them. Barely ever saw weapon trials pop in ShB maybe once a week if lucky- but see the EW post MSQ trials all the time.

???

It's the same amount of trials, I'm not asking for more. I am asking for the void to be a separate narrative so that EW would have had time to do the usual .1-.3 wrap-up and then leave two full patches to setup DT instead of taking a crowbar and hammer and cramming it in at the 11th hour on the ass end of the .5 patch.

It's just more evidence of EW just generally not being as well laid-out as other expansions. When interviews talk about how they were originally sketching out the idea of it being two separate expansions you can tell how they had to cut and adjust things to fit into one. Maybe it would be less noticeable if ShB hadn't been A+ quality, but when you compare the two it's pretty obvious that EW is the lesser product and so it's easy to identify things done differently that did not pan out well.

I think that they have figured out a really effective cadence and distribution of content with ShB, particularly if you fill the void that was COVID delays with stuff. I can't think of any instance where EW deviated from that plan and cadence and it ended up being a net gain.

They also deviated in that there wasn't a plot wrap-up with 6.3, unlike the .3 patch for other expansions. Maybe this is why they felt the Void and its trials should have taken center stage? They could have just added another Manderville trial in 6.3 if they couldn't come up with something else. But then again, that's literally what The Gilded Araya is.

So you could have a solo duty where you do the castle and Scarmaglione with your crew in 6.1, then Barbie in 6.2, Cagnazzo in 6.3, and then divide Rubicante, Golbez, and Zeromus somewhere in there - having Zeromus be a late addition to 6.5 would help with the extreme content drought. The Gilded Araya could have been 6.3 or something, part of the MSQ. Like, they divvied up 9 regular trials evenly in SB, and did it with 8 Ex trials in ShB, so we know it can be done. Memoria Misera was 5.25, while Ruby Weapon was 5.20. I think I'd put Rubicante and Golbez together in 6.4 and 6.45, myself.

[Yarathir]

It's incredibly obvious that the whole void story is a lengthy setup for an eventual Lightbringers expansion on the 13th in a couple of years time.

It's a less than optimal lead-up to dawntrail narrowing it down to a single .55 patch, but that doesn't mean what the post-EW story did was entirely useless in a wider sense.

Yeah, it's really just another Warriors of Darkness plotline.

[Xilurm]

The FFXVI collab is tomorrow. Reckon I'll sub before it ends. Might as well finish up the MSQ now instead of waiting.

[Tech614]

snip

Like I said don't care, and stopped reading your diatribe the first line in. Same amount of content, doesn't matter where it is.

Not sure how much further you think they could draw out the EW story when they closed most loose threads in the base MSQ. Nor should they have leaned too heavily into DT with post xpac content when it's a completely new part of the world we know almost jack shit about.

You didn't like the post MSQ story and are trying to attribute it to all these bullshit reasons, get over it tbh dude. You don't have to like it, it's not because it had all but 1 of the trials attached to it. Now I remember you even said they should of held off the entire 2nd half of EW to post MSQ lol, bad back seat development 101: I didn't like this so you should of shipped an incomplete xpac at launch to replace it!

[Grinning Serpent]

Not sure how much further you think they could draw out the EW story when they closed most loose threads in the base MSQ. Nor should they have leaned too heavily into DT with post xpac content when it's a completely new part of the world we know almost jack shit about.

???

That is literally the perfect opportunity to start introducing people to the areas we'll be visiting. Like, how much time do we spend with the Domans before we ever even visit Doma? Instead of just randomly showing up over there, we know people and their stories, so we are invested in that area.

It's just good storytelling, dude. I don't know why you're trying so hard to dismiss my issues with it as just whining or some personal vendetta. Why the fuck are you so aggressive about a video game? It's a game, not your life. Chill.

[Arlette]

FF16 event was fun. I really like the story didn't just randomly forget that both Lightning and Noctis had come to Eorzea before and referenced that fact. I loved Clive's schtick of responding to things in Eorzea that were similar to the things in Valisthea. Him interacting with Kan-E-Senna was great. I like that the Minstrel is just the expert when it comes to whacky crossover events.

The fight was super fun and I like the dodge/counter mechanic. Standing in aoe markers so you can dodge in them is so antithetical to how FF14 trains you to play boss fights that I was impressed wit how well you were taught to do it in a single fight alone. So much so that unless I'm mistaken, by the last 1/4th of the fight against Ifrit, he just stopped showing the cast bars and you could just feel when it was appropriate to dodge.

I'm glad that unlike some games you just do the fun event and then it gives you the best rewards. You could get the orchestral roles or the Clive TT card afterwards but those aren't the key rewards and I'm so happy they continue to do events where you finish them and they just give you the mount, glamour, and pet.

(Also keeping in Clive swearing was a fun little addition)

The only thing I wish they would do is pony up the cash to have these events voice acted because it would make them so much better than they already are. Hell with how excited Ben Starr always is to play Clive in the English Dub, I wouldn't be surprised if he streamed himself playing FF14 (He started recently and is still in ARR) and just voiced that whole event totally free on his stream.

I didn't need the event to be super long, 30 minutes or so was fine and I enjoyed it the whole way through.

[Grinning Serpent]

Yeah the FF16 event looks fun and I want the pupper mount so I'll probably re-up for a month before the event ends. Might as well do leftover MSQ, Tataru's grand endeavors, etc while I'm there.

[Grinning Serpent]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EJfr9G95t4

Benchmark trailer dropped. About what I expected from the other partial previews... characters still look passable at best (we know PCs won't have Meteor's bespoke animations in that cutscene, and they still haven't found a solution to the abrupt about-face thing), environments look *dramatically* better (but still lagging pretty far behind other MMOs, that LOD is still rough as hell and tiling is really bad on flat planes.) Soft shadows and lighting are still nonexistent but hard shadows and lighting look a lot better.

Lots of new abilities being teased, of course. WAR appears to get their own version of PLD wings (which reinforces PLD+WAR and GNB+DRK as "soft" clones in terms of group support), SAM saw WAR doing flips and decided they could do that too, MCH chainsaw is now more chainsawier, PLD has some new combo finisher, I think WHM and SCH were showing some random thing (looked like a group DPS amp for SCH and a group mit/heal for WHM), and looks like they previewed VPR's LB3.

Music is fine but it's definitely no Shadowbringers or Footfalls.

[Tech614]

The only eye catching thing to me is the monster animations look a lot better than they usually do in XIV. The lighting, textures and material work is all improved but we have already seen that.

I actually want to see a cave or other darkish setting to fully judge the graphics upgrade. XVI, using the same engine had amazing lighting in dark areas and if that fully translates into Dawntrail they can make some great looking in doors or cave areas. Outdoors was actually where XVI didn't look so hot, so if this situation is similar the darker areas will look way better.

[Grinning Serpent]

https://sqex.to/ffxiv_bench_na

Benchmark tool is live. Doesn't require an active subscription thankfully (though I think you might need one to copy a character from retail to the tool?) I got around 14000pts at 105fps (capped with RTSS) with near-max settings with a 12700k, 32GB DDR4 RAM, Arc A750 8GB (roughly 2060 Super/RX 6700 equivalent) on W11 Pro.

Specific settings I used were: FSR @ 100% (I tried 67% since that's what the "Quality" preset means but it looked terrible... I don't know why SE isn't just using the standard performance/balanced/quality presets like everyone else but I'm guessing 100% is analogous to "Quality"), dynamic resolution off, LOD on distant objects on, dynamic grass on, reflections at max, TSCMAA for AA, high transparent lighting, high grass quality, high parallax occlusion and tessellation, standard glare, shadows displayed for self and others, LOD enabled for character shadows and distant objects, 2048p shadow resolution, best cascading and strong softening, and normal cast shadows. Textures set to high with 16x anisotropic, full physics for self and simple for others (though assuming this is purely CPU related I could probably go full, idk), standard GTAO for SSAO, and everything else left to defaults.

Ran it in borderless window with Windows full-screen optimizations off and DPI set to application control.

Overall I'm pretty happy with things. I eventually decided to limit fps to 92 (2/3 display refresh rate, plus adjustments for freesync+scanline sync) and never encountered any scenarios where I lost fps due to GPU maxing out. Highest GPU utilization was in the mid 90's, with some of the less demanding scenes dipping down into the 50's.

I did lose fps in multiple places while GPU and CPU utilization were both fairly low, so I'm guessing that's something to do with the engine itself. The most notable part is in the first half of the flyover segment, before the "dudes fighting a big worm" scene. The latter half of the flyover segment behaved normally.

Things look *much* better in person than on a youtube video. I was very impressed with the graphical improvements, particularly the changes to old gear textures. I didn't make an exhaustive look at all of the races but most seem to have minor improvements, mostly in terms of skin textures. Particularly the "old person" faces (the wrinkles on the skin, crow's feet, etc are much less blurry.)

Pretty much all skepticism I had in the engine improvements is gone. It's really wild how much better things look in-person instead of dealing with youtube compression.

[PenguinChan]

Things look *much* better in person than on a youtube video. I was very impressed with the graphical improvements, particularly the changes to old gear textures.

It looks like so far all the old sets have been re-exported out with a slightly larger image size so it's sharper and has better clarity but it's not improved in any visual sense.

The starting armors though, they have been properly updated to the new material system which - if THAT'S how all the old armor is going to look, I'm really fucking excited.