We will probably see a new Class during the Worldsoul Saga

[Lorgar Aurelian]

But the Pandaren Brewmaster is where the concept originated from.

it’s where the brewmaster concept came from, it’s not where WW or MW came from as you’ve already admitted.

But they did because they wanted a Pandaren based Monk class, so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here.

no they didn’t as the Pandaren based monk class doesn’t even come from Pandaria it comes from the wandering isle. And all Pandarian lore pre mop was thrown out including even Chen coming from there.

[Teriz]

it’s where the brewmaster concept came from, it’s not where WW or MW came from as you’ve already admitted.

Uh the entire concept comes from the Pandaren Brewmaster. Which is why Chen is on the cover of the expansion that introduced both Pandaria AND the Monk class.

Anyway this has been argued to death, anc is completely off-topic. Feel free to believe whatever you want.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Uh the entire concept comes from the Pandaren Brewmaster. Which is why Chen is on the cover of the expansion that introduced both Pandaria AND the Monk class.

Anyway this has been argued to death, anc is completely off-topic. Feel free to believe whatever you want.

Yet you can’t point to any where where the brewmaster concept mentions Xuen or Yu-lon and already admitted that they come from Chinese folklore instead of brewmasters.

But run away as is your per-view when you know your wrong.

[Cyclone Jack]

Yeah, the bit about M'uru/Entropius, the sunwell and the reaction to void being close to it was the turning point in my thought process.

It could very well be a "generic" void class, though, i think blizz would try to tie it in more towards at least some known characters.

But for specs. What if it is a 4 spec class? With DK/Monk we thought all classes would always have 3 specs. DH turned that on its head with 2 specs, and Evoker again turned this with a class that starts as 2 specs but becomes 3 specs. So, the next turn could be a 4 spec class. Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Healer/Support, Tank would all fit into such a class, given the influences. But i think we are in concord that melee DPS and Ranged DPS are at least 2 of the specs. Tank... wouldn't be that supported if we just look at Warden, PotM, Night Warrior, Void Ranger. Healer/Support would fit in better. I think to sell a tank spec for such a class, the spellbreaker fantasy has to be part of it, or it has not enough defensive backing.

Edit: Uhh, idea for a class name: Voidbreaker. Taking naming from the spellbreaker, and the fantasy would be, people who break the strangle hold of the void, using it, instead of being used by it.

Well, I would say that if you combine the Night Warrior and Void Hunter into the same class, as separate specs, then I agree that the 3rd spec is probably best as a support/heal spec; its a combo that works very well on the Shaman, for example. But, they did say that they wanted to really shake things up and break expectations, and one way to definitely do that would be to add another 4-spec Class to the game. Then they could use Warden, Night Warrior, Void Hunter, PotM as the Hero Talents.

[Teriz]

Yet you can’t point to any where where the brewmaster concept mentions Xuen or Yu-lon and already admitted that they come from Chinese folklore instead of brewmasters.

But run away as is your per-view when you know your wrong.

Uh the Pandaren Brewmaster also comes from Chinese folklore and legend. What country do you think a name like “Chen” would originate from?

This is why it’s best to just end this conversation here. You’re arguing in bad faith.

[Ielenia]

But the Pandaren Brewmaster is where the concept originated from.

No, that is false. The WC3PB is just the equivalent of one spec of the class. Two thirds of it --namely: the mistweaver and windwalker-- came from sources outside of the Warcraft franchise. There's nothing 'mistweavy' or 'martial artist-y' in the Warcraft III unit.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Uh the Pandaren Brewmaster also comes from Chinese folklore and legend. What country do you think a name like “Chen” would originate from?

I mean no brewmasters don’t come from Chinese folklore they come from a very real style of martial arts.

But brewmasters being based off of something Chinese does in no way mean MW and WW are based off brewmasters, it’s a total nonsecular.

This is why it’s best to just end this conversation here. You’re arguing in bad faith.

you are the only one who ever argues in bad faith as you are doing in this very post by saying just because two separate things are Chinese it means one is based off the other.

[Teriz]

No, that is false. The WC3PB is just the equivalent of one spec of the class. Two thirds of it --namely: the mistweaver and windwalker-- came from sources outside of the Warcraft franchise. There's nothing 'mistweavy' or 'martial artist-y' in the Warcraft III unit.

Is that why both Windwalker and Mistwalkee had brewing abilities in MoP and WoD?

- - - Updated - - -

I mean no brewmasters don’t come from Chinese folklore they come from a very real style of martial arts.

Chinese folklore is full of stories about the Drunken master traveling from town to town teaching new students and fighting for people.

But brewmasters being based off of something Chinese does in no way mean MW and WW are based off brewmasters, it’s a total nonsecular.

And yet in MoP and WoD both of those specs had brewing abilities and their own unique brews.

you are the only one who ever argues in bad faith as you are doing in this very post by saying just because two separate things are Chinese it means one is based off the other.

So you’re saying that Blizzard had a Chinese-inspired hero from a fantasy land based on China and just stopped there and didn’t expand the concept any further?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Chinese folklore is full of stories about the Drunken master traveling from town to town teaching new students and fighting for people.

and brewmasters don’t do that, there WC3 unit just says they are looking to try and sell Ale and just defend them selfs when attacked, and Chen’s own story is how he didn’t want to teach any one and just wanted to go Boozing until his friend dies looking for him.

Brewmasters were based in the martial art style in a loose sense not any actual folk lore from China with even there originally concept not being from China and the Chinese elements being added last minute before they were ditched for the TTRPG.

And yet in MoP and WoD both of those specs had brewing abilities and their own unique brews.

and? Every class shares mechanics between specs that doesn’t mean they are based off which ever spec you want to say is the first.

So you’re saying that Blizzard had a Chinese-inspired hero from a fantasy land based on China and just stopped there and didn’t expand the concept any further?

again you show that your the only one in bad faith.

No where did I say the Chinese concepts weren’t expanded further I explicitly said the opposite and that they took two new Chinese concepts instead of using the one they had which was brewmasters/drunker fist martial arts.

[Enrif]

Well, I would say that if you combine the Night Warrior and Void Hunter into the same class, as separate specs, then I agree that the 3rd spec is probably best as a support/heal spec; its a combo that works very well on the Shaman, for example. But, they did say that they wanted to really shake things up and break expectations, and one way to definitely do that would be to add another 4-spec Class to the game. Then they could use Warden, Night Warrior, Void Hunter, PotM as the Hero Talents.

hmm, not sure for those four as hero specs. PotM would obviously be for the ranged and healer specs. void hunter would have to have ranged, and Warden would have melee. The question, would be, who takes tank? Warden i would guess. That would leave Night Warrior with tank & healer, and void hunter with melee dps?

Heal  -  PotM  -  RDPS
 |                  |
Night              Void
Warrior           Hunter
 |                  |
Tank -  Warden  - MDPS

hmm, seems wrong to me. If we give night warrior melee dps, than tank would have to go to void hunter. and either warden or night warrior has to pick healer and the other tank.

Heal  -  PotM  -  RDPS         Heal  -  PotM  -  RDPS
 |                 |            |                  |
Night            Void         Warden             Void
Warrior          Hunter         |                Hunter
 |                 |            |       Night      |
MDPS -  Warden  - Tank        MDPS -  Warrior -  Tank

This also doesn't seem quite right to me... Night Warrior should have a connection to Void Hunter for using dark powers, but also to warden for melee combat. Unless, PotM is not for the ranged DPS spec, but for the tank?

          Void 
Heal  -  Hunter -  RDPS
 |                  |
PotM               Night
 |                Warrior
 |                  |
Tank -  Warden  - MDPS

ugh... that is a bit of a conundrum. The melee dps and ranged dps choices are clear. But the tank and healer aspect won't fit nicely.

[Cyclone Jack]

hmm, not sure for those four as hero specs. PotM would obviously be for the ranged and healer specs. void hunter would have to have ranged, and Warden would have melee. The question, would be, who takes tank? Warden i would guess. That would leave Night Warrior with tank & healer, and void hunter with melee dps?

...

ugh... that is a bit of a conundrum. The melee dps and ranged dps choices are clear. But the tank and healer aspect won't fit nicely.

Yeah, I sort of ran into that as well after I started thinking about it. Its like, they can all sort of fit between two specs, just not equally.

[Ielenia]

Is that why both Windwalker and Mistwalkee had brewing abilities in MoP and WoD?

That's irrelevant, because those are just two abilities that do not define the concept. The concept of the windwalker is of a kung-fu monk, a concept that is wholly absent from the Warcraft III Pandaren Brewmaster neutral hero unit. Similarly, the concept of the mistweaver is of a monk that utilizes ki manipulation of the element of water to heal and cure others, a concept that is also wholly absent from the WC3PB unit.

[Teriz]

and brewmasters don’t do that, there WC3 unit just says they are looking to try and sell Ale and just defend them selfs when attacked, and Chen’s own story is how he didn’t want to teach any one and just wanted to go Boozing until his friend dies looking for him.

You mean the typical martial arts/action movie trope of the wandering hero who is minding his own business but when trouble comes their way they have to use their hidden fighting prowess to save the day? Or the typical martial arts trope of the reluctant martial arts master who doesn't want to teach anyone until something happens and he decides to teach?

Brewmasters were based in the martial art style in a loose sense not any actual folk lore from China with even there originally concept not being from China and the Chinese elements being added last minute before they were ditched for the TTRPG.

What are you even trying to say here? This is a garbled mess.

and? Every class shares mechanics between specs that doesn’t mean they are based off which ever spec you want to say is the first.

So you think an ability called "Brewing" and multiple brew-based cooldowns throughout the class have nothing to do with the Brewmaster concept?

Like I said, nothing but bad faith arguments from you.

- - - Updated - - -

That's irrelevant, because those are just two abilities that do not define the concept. The concept of the windwalker is of a kung-fu monk, a concept that is wholly absent from the Warcraft III Pandaren Brewmaster neutral hero unit. Similarly, the concept of the mistweaver is of a monk that utilizes ki manipulation of the element of water to heal and cure others, a concept that is also wholly absent from the WC3PB unit.

Yeah, Monks that "brew" empowered brews and use those brews while they fight.

Yeah, the Brewmaster hero has nothing to do with that.

[Enrif]

Yeah, I sort of ran into that as well after I started thinking about it. Its like, they can all sort of fit between two specs, just not equally.

perhaps, not all of them would have to be hero talents, some could be hero talents, some specs, some the base class.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You mean the typical martial arts/action movie trope

So you agree that brewmasters aren't traveling traveling from town to town teaching new students and fighting for people and are instead moving onto a totally different trope?

reluctant martial arts master who doesn't want to teach anyone until something happens and he decides to teach?

Is also something Chen doesn't do, He stops boozing when his friend dies and starts to adventure with Lili instead, he doesn't start teaching her how to be a brewmaster.

What are you even trying to say here? This is a garbled mess.

another example of you failing basic English?

Brewmasters were not based on any Chinese folk lore, they were based on the pop culture around the drunken fist, and changed last minute from Japanese to Chinese, said change to Chinese was so hap hazard that it was thrown away when they made actual lore for the Pandarian in the TTRPG which was there canon until mop.

So you think an ability called "Brewing" and multiple brew-based cooldowns throughout the class have nothing to do with the Brewmaster concept?

Like I said, nothing but bad faith arguments from you.

Again you are the only one who post in bad faith as you show continuously be adding bits I never said. Having one mechcanic doens't mean the whole spec is based off of a concept it just means prior to legion classes were designed to have overlap in every spec.

Shadow priest aren't based on holy priest even though they both have fortitude, Fire mages aren't based off frost mages even though they both have polymorph, Survival hunters aren't based on MM even though they both have aspects, and so on and so on. MW and WW having brewing doesn't in any way mean they are based on brewmasters.

[Cyclone Jack]

perhaps, not all of them would have to be hero talents, some could be hero talents, some specs, some the base class.

Yeah. I think something void-based still makes sense, and tying it all back to M'uru/Entropius subtly infecting the well makes sense as well. What they use as a basis is still somewhat up in the air. Both Void Hunter and Night Warrior still make sense as possibilities; even a Void Knight of sorts would make sense.

I do think that if Night Warrior is on the table, then pairing it with Void Hunter and PotM makes a lot of sense, and it would create a solid class concept, on par with the Shaman. Even though I'd want to see some sort of Void Tank, personally, I don't think it really fits into this concept too well.

[Teriz]

So you agree that brewmasters aren't traveling traveling from town to town teaching new students and fighting for people and are instead moving onto a totally different trope?

Uh that's exactly what they're doing. You described it in your own post.

Is also something Chen doesn't do...

Riiiiiight.

another simple of you failing basic English?

If you think this is decent sentence;

Brewmasters were based in the martial art style in a loose sense not any actual folk lore from China with even there originally concept not being from China and the Chinese elements being added last minute before they were ditched for the TTRPG.

You need to go back to grade school.... I mean you didn't even use "their" correctly.

Brewmasters were not based on any Chinese folk lore, they were based on the pop culture around the drunken fist, and changed last minute from Japanese to Chinese, said change to Chinese was so hap hazard that it was thrown away when they made actual lore for the Pandarian in the TTRPG which was there canon until mop.

Pop culture Drunken fist comes from Kung Fu movies which in turn are based on Chinese folklore.

Again you are the only one who post in bad faith as you show continuously be adding bits I never said. Having one mechcanic doens't mean the whole spec is based off of a concept it just means prior to legion classes were designed to have overlap in every spec.

Every time you used 4 Chi you would brew a stack of Mana tea or Tigerseye brew. You then used those stacks to either increase your attack power or restore Mana. So yeah both were rather integral aspects of the spec. Along with their cooldown brews Thunder Focus Tea and Energizing Elixir.

Shadow priest aren't based on holy priest even though they both have fortitude, Fire mages aren't based off frost mages even though they both have polymorph, Survival hunters aren't based on MM even though they both have aspects, and so on and so on. MW and WW having brewing doesn't in any way mean they are based on brewmasters.

Ah there's that bad faith arguing yet again.

I'm done with this. Feel free to have the last word.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Uh that's exactly what they're doing. You described it in your own post.

Trying and selling ale isn't training students or fighting for others, so no.

Riiiiiight.

So show Lili training to be a brewmaser, Hell show Chen training her in any thing.

You need to go back to grade school.... I mean you didn't even use "their" correctly.

If all you can say is I used the wrong there, it proves you have no point and are just posting in bad faith.

Pop culture Drunken fist comes from Kung Fu movies which in turn are based on Chinese folklore.

So not only would them being several points removed prove there not from Chinese folklore, drunken first it self still isn't even a folklore thing and is an actual form of martial arts. so you just fail on every level.

Ah there's that bad faith arguing yet again.

I'm done with this. Feel free to have the last word.

Again you are the only one who ever post in bad faith which is why you always shy away from consistency because you know it destroys your bad faith points.

but again you know your wrong so run away.

[Teriz]

ugh... that is a bit of a conundrum. The melee dps and ranged dps choices are clear. But the tank and healer aspect won't fit nicely.

The next class getting a healing spec isn't likely. We just got a healer spec with the Evoker class. Ion did say that a tank is likely in the next class.

Also I remain skeptical of a Void Hunter spec/class because of the Dark Ranger hero tree. I see no reason to do a Void Hunter with a Dark Ranger tree sitting there doing essentially the same thing that a Void Hunter would be doing. If a Void Hunter class was on the table, Dark Ranger wouldn't be a hero talent tree in the Hunter class. Blizzard would be putting the Windrunner sisters together and combining Dark Ranger with the other Windrunner sister specs and build a class from that.

That really leaves Night Warrior and PotM, and I have a suspicion that the Sentinel Hero talent tree is going to cover PotM while Chosen of Elune covers Night Warrior.

And that's not even getting into the issue of hero talent trees for this Frankenstein of a concept.

[Ielenia]

Yeah, Monks that "brew" empowered brews and use those brews while they fight.

Yeah, the Brewmaster hero has nothing to do with that.

You really didn't read what I wrote, did you? Here, I'll repeat it for you. It's right at the beginning:

"That's irrelevant, because those are just two abilities that do not define the concept. The concept of the windwalker is of a kung-fu monk, a concept that is wholly absent from the Warcraft III Pandaren Brewmaster neutral hero unit. Similarly, the concept of the mistweaver is of a monk that utilizes ki manipulation of the element of water to heal and cure others, a concept that is also wholly absent fro the WC3PB unit."

Making brews does not define the Windwalker or Mistweaving concepts.