Xbox might be bowing out of the console race and going third party.

[rhorle]

only people like rhorle think this is financially viable.

Oh wow a personal attack as you keep ignoring the statements by the head of Xbox that stated they intend to put COD, and all first party titles, on game pass day one. It is crazy how many of you ignore facts you don't like and have to insult whenever you get the chance.

[Jtbrig7390]

Oh wow a personal attack as you keep ignoring the statements by the head of Xbox that stated they intend to put COD, and all first party titles, on game pass day one. It is crazy how many of you ignore facts you don't like and have to insult whenever you get the chance.

And like we have told you countless times that clearly isn't working and they are losing their ass in money doing it, that's why its very likely in the very near future that won't be a thing.

COD can't go to GamePass until at least 2025 due to existing contracts with ABK (maybe even longer if its in the new deal with Sony). Day and Date will be gone by then and them selling "Early Access" with Starfield and it falling on its face is more than enough reason for them to not do it again.

You honestly think they will give up 5million+ copies sold to sell the game at a massive loss on GamePass? If so I got a sea side house to sell you in Ohio.

Basic math and MS's own statements on GamePass sub's shows the platform is bleeding money, COD won't make it to GamePass day 1.

[rhorle]

COD can't go to GamePass until at least 2025 due to existing contracts with ABK (maybe even longer if its in the new deal with Sony). Day and Date will be gone by then and them selling "Early Access" with Starfield and it falling on its face is more than enough reason for them to not do it again.

No. The last game as part of the Sony contract was CoD 2023. Starfield didn't fall on its face. It drove both game pass subscriptions and early access upgrades for the game pass version. I get you can't accept anything good about Microsoft but it is silly to create a false reality of the way things were.

“[T]he last game covered by the contract is a Call of Duty title to be released in late 2023,” reads part of a letter from PlayStation boss Jim Ryan that someone didn’t properly redact. https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/28/2...to-playstation

You honestly think they will give up 5million+ copies sold to sell the game at a massive loss on GamePass?

That depends entirely on how much money they think they will earn in microtransactions or up selling editions. The below link doesn't include 2023 but it shows that a bulk of their revenue comes from in-game sources. Having more access potentially means more of that revenue.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...y-composition/

[Zenfoldor]

Article today in financial times for those keeping up with this:

"Sony and Nintendo left to battle in console wars as Microsoft signals exit"

It is paywalled, so not linking directly but:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/finan...-exit.1668121/

Yall think this was over because MS gave a vague podcast?

[Edge-]

Article today in financial times for those keeping up with this:

"Sony and Nintendo left to battle in console wars as Microsoft signals exit"

It is paywalled, so not linking directly but:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/finan...-exit.1668121/

Yall think this was over because MS gave a vague podcast?

I'm a bit skeptical of this reporting, but we'll see how it bears out. This comment in the Neogaf thread tho -

When you swallow two of the largest third-party publishers, with their underlying economics you effectively become a large third-party publisher

gave me a giggle.

[Zenfoldor]

Peter Moore doing some speculatin'

https://sea.ign.com/halo-infinite/21...ys-peter-moore

[Edge-]

https://kotaku.com/publishers-not-su...gdc-1851367132

Reportedly, some third-party video game publishers aren’t sure why they should keep making and supporting games for Xbox consoles due to poor sales in Europe.

In a new podcast from Gamesindustry.biz, the head of the outlet, Chris Dring, explained that while at the 2024 Game Developers Conference (GDC) he heard that “flatlining” Xbox hardware sales in Europe have made some companies question what the point is of continuing to support Microsoft’s brand and its various consoles due to a declining audience and lack of growth.

“The other thing I heard—I heard it from a very prominent company and one not so prominent—was Xbox’s performance in Europe is just flatlining,” said Dring on the podcast. “You can follow our monthly coverage in the games market and you can see that Xbox sales are falling, and it’s been falling throughout last year and it’s falling even harder this year.”

Dring further said that one major company—who reportedly released a “big game” last year—said: “I don’t know why we bothered supporting it.”

“We mentioned on the previous podcast that we’d heard retailers in Europe are considering or had already been cutting back their Xbox stock on their shelves—hardware, games, that kind of thing—and now you’ve got publishers, third-party publishers going, ‘we’re putting in a lot of effort trying to create a Series S version and an X version of a game when, to be honest with you, for us the market is PC and PS5’,” said Dring.

Publishers are starting to wonder if Xbox ports are worth it

According to Dring, from what he heard at GDC 2024, Xbox is “in real trouble as a hardware manufacturer.”

“I didn’t really factor in that some developers and publishers might just go ‘Yeah, is there any point?” and that is when you can lose it.”

“They need to make sure it makes sense to continue to make versions of their games for [Xbox],” explained Dring.

For years now, we’ve heard Microsoft downplay the importance of selling Xbox consoles as the company has struggled to keep up with Nintendo and Sony’s sales of their respective devices. In 2023, Microsoft admitted in court docs that it lost the console war in 2001 and is still losing to this day. We’ve even seen data suggesting that PS5 is outselling Xbox 2:1.

But, like Dring, I always assumed that as long as Microsoft was willing to keep making boxes and selling them, publishers would keep making games for Xbox.

However, it seems flatlining sales in Europe and a sense that Microsoft is no longer as committed to Xbox hardware as before—publishing previously exclusive games on PS5, for example—has led to, as Dring explained in the podcast, a sense of confusion over what’s going on at Microsoft. And sure, some people are still buying Xbox consoles, but if that number keeps dipping and the audience is not growing or shrinking, it makes sense that publishers—looking to cut costs—might decide an Xbox port isn’t worth it anymore in 2024 or beyond.

This is...surprising news to me, honestly. And given that it's sourced back to GI.biz folks and recent GDC discussions I'm inclined to believe there's some validity in this, and it does track with what we know of Microsoft's inability to move a lot of hardware this generation, again.

My opinion of Phil remains subterranean.

[justwatching]

I'm not that surprised tbh. I remember looking at the sales data from the capcom leak(I believe it was RE2) and wondered if they lost money on the port. Seems like its only getting worse this gen.

[Lahis]

So soon XBox literally has no games. Third parties bail out because there is no markets on the platform and first parties fall flat on their faces every time.

[Blackmist]

If they could make the Xbox run Windows (so I can play all my Steam games and FFXIV) I'd buy one as a gaming PC.

PC hardware prices are stupid right now.

[Linkedblade]

Still don't see the significant reason for microsoft making physical hardware when they have the best oem support for windows. Honestly, they could brand a certain set of specs as "Xbox worthy" and let Dell, HP, Lenovo etc make their own "xboxes." We've already seen what the handheld space has done for windows/steam. This along with xbox (and ps5) hardware being modified AMD desktop silicon makes the line between pc and console almost inexistent. In fact the "xbox certified" hardware would allow developer driver consistency, which is the only practical reason for dedicated console hardware.

- - - Updated - - -

If they could make the Xbox run Windows (so I can play all my Steam games and FFXIV) I'd buy one as a gaming PC.

PC hardware prices are stupid right now.

Xbox runs modified WindowsNT. And the app api allows an app to be developed for both simultanously.

[gondrin]

https://kotaku.com/publishers-not-su...gdc-1851367132



This is...surprising news to me, honestly. And given that it's sourced back to GI.biz folks and recent GDC discussions I'm inclined to believe there's some validity in this, and it does track with what we know of Microsoft's inability to move a lot of hardware this generation, again.

My opinion of Phil remains subterranean.

Honestly, I am not surprised. Outside of the US, the Xbox literally always had issues with sales. There is also the thing that MS allows people to play Xbox games on the PC too so you really don't need the Xbox unless you do not have a PC.

[Vetali]

https://kotaku.com/publishers-not-su...gdc-1851367132



This is...surprising news to me, honestly. And given that it's sourced back to GI.biz folks and recent GDC discussions I'm inclined to believe there's some validity in this, and it does track with what we know of Microsoft's inability to move a lot of hardware this generation, again.

My opinion of Phil remains subterranean.

"big game last year". Hmm, wonder what defined it as big... big budget I assume. BG3 seems to be doing well on Xbox.

Regardless, not surprising... Xbox has whiffed on big console selling exclusives for 2 gens. Saw some silly post in xitter that adding 3rd party storefronts like EGS and Steam would make Xbox unstoppable. Made no sense to me. Those games still have to be ported to Xbox. Even though everything runs off x86 architecture now, it still involves dev time.... unless they do just run it like Windows.

[Edge-]

"big game last year". Hmm, wonder what defined it as big... big budget I assume. BG3 seems to be doing well on Xbox.

Could be a lot of things and we have no clue. Best-selling game of last year was Hogwarts Legacy, for example.

Regardless, not surprising... Xbox has whiffed on big console selling exclusives for 2 gens. Saw some silly post in xitter that adding 3rd party storefronts like EGS and Steam would make Xbox unstoppable. Made no sense to me. Those games still have to be ported to Xbox. Even though everything runs off x86 architecture now, it still involves dev time.... unless they do just run it like Windows.

I can't make heads or tails of the longterm strategy there. There are so many different possible scenarios and none of them ultimately benefit Microsoft in the longterm, especially if they want to keep making hardware as they claim (and I believe). But I can't see them making consoles more like PC in that regard - a huge benefit of consoles is how simple and straightforward/plug and play they are. PC's are infinitely better in this regard vs. the days of old, but still come with a host of additional complications and issues that largely just aren't present on console (like needing to check specs to see if you can run a game well, or at all).

[Gaidax]

If they just move to PC or Xbox becomes a PC proper - Steam will get all that sweet $$ instead. The point of consoles is that M$ are the ones getting that tasty 30% cut in their walled garden.

[Zenfoldor]

Could be a lot of things and we have no clue. Best-selling game of last year was Hogwarts Legacy, for example.



I can't make heads or tails of the longterm strategy there. There are so many different possible scenarios and none of them ultimately benefit Microsoft in the longterm, especially if they want to keep making hardware as they claim (and I believe). But I can't see them making consoles more like PC in that regard - a huge benefit of consoles is how simple and straightforward/plug and play they are. PC's are infinitely better in this regard vs. the days of old, but still come with a host of additional complications and issues that largely just aren't present on console (like needing to check specs to see if you can run a game well, or at all).

I try not to comment in this thread of ssktjl anymore as I feel guilty and always negative about it.

However, I was thinking what could MS do to differentiate themselves.

I think if I was MS I would try to disrupt the hardware space with my next big shot at hardware.

I would do this by creating an upgradable "console" which would run on latest AMD socket/chipset and allow for firmware updates and reasonable future proofing. Similar to how the PS5 allows usage of off the shelf computer parts(ie m.2 pcie ssd) my next Xbox would release in a standard and barebones configuration. The barebones config would allow bespoke config and our software target would be tiered with 3 categories, making sure the 3rd tier(highest end) category is relatively costly to break into and similar to ultra mode on PC with similar CPU to the stock. We would allow full mouse and keyboard support. We would also have switch/steamdeck spinoff that works on a 4th bespoke tier, as the mobile spinoff would not be upgradable. Advertise minimum legal censorship on the box and make out like it open platform(but really not). Make software easy to manipulate so people can use it for pc alternative and encourage adoption from the tech savvy. Strong support of user mods in games, strong promotion and marketing around those mods.

Ad campaign would have the PC elitism meme in it a lot and play up to console owners that this is a way into "PC" gaming that is the best of both worlds. I try to take what is special about the PC and about the Switch and bake it into my console. Cost could ran as low as current gen flagship or very high depending on what upgrades one puts in the box. Modular housing would be needed, PSU would still need to be likely proprietary and very expensive but this whole box would be expensive, talking about 499 being the floor for a completed(standard) box and someone could build that out to two thousand dollar console if they bought high end gpu and cpu to go with barebones model. Xbox deck would be fairly priced but targeting higher end. It would also come in different screen sizes.

This would also maybe require changes in how software is licensed on the console. GPU would be limited to blower style cooling and heat in general would be one of the biggest challenges. Locked/no overclocking potential would help with this but still seems difficult. I've seen dell do some interesting things with modularity. Their compact units often have parts screwed to metal inserts which are assembled externally and then inserted, including GPU, PSU, disc drive, hard drive but I've never seem ram or m.2 setup like that before.

[Gaidax]

I would do this by creating an upgradable "console" which would run on latest AMD socket/chipset and allow for firmware updates and reasonable future proofing.

Brah, 95% of people playing on console just want to push a power button and shove some gaming pixels into their eyeballs for cheap and no care in the world.

Whom are you making that for in a console that is already struggling? People who give enough damn to even do that, just go for PC anyway and you're back at step one just you have wasted a shitton of money and time for a flop.

And I'm not even talking about the nightmare that would be for M$ to optimize for that. They barely manage with even just something as Xbox X/S, that constantly comes around to fuck them again in the ass like in BG3 case and many more, and you think they'd want to support virtually limitless permutations of that?

[rhorle]

And I'm not even talking about the nightmare that would be for M$ to optimize for that

To be fair Microsoft already does try and get games able to run on both Xbox and PC. Not every game has a Microsoft Store version but when they do it is usually playable on both console and PC. It isn't as simple as putting the steam version on the store though so not every developer does it. There have also been times where the Microsoft Store version is slower to update then other PC stores because of difficulty or the verification process.

[Rennadrel]

Could be a lot of things and we have no clue. Best-selling game of last year was Hogwarts Legacy, for example.



I can't make heads or tails of the longterm strategy there. There are so many different possible scenarios and none of them ultimately benefit Microsoft in the longterm, especially if they want to keep making hardware as they claim (and I believe). But I can't see them making consoles more like PC in that regard - a huge benefit of consoles is how simple and straightforward/plug and play they are. PC's are infinitely better in this regard vs. the days of old, but still come with a host of additional complications and issues that largely just aren't present on console (like needing to check specs to see if you can run a game well, or at all).

It is my belief that Microsoft has stopped being a company that cares about the market that made Xbox successful. With their recent admission that "gamer dudebros" (you know, the market that Microsoft and Sony helped cultivate) is no longer their market and that they want to cater to everyone, has really sanitized their brand and their exclusives being exceptionally sterile and politically correct just backs that up. Not to mention their recently announced "inclusivity" program for game developers demands that studios do things like "not use exaggerated or unrealistic" female characters, to which people dunked on them hard for it.

While Sony has become a very politically correct gaming company, at least some third party games for the PS5 seem to cater towards certain audiences rather than trying to appease everyone and being boring.

[Zenfoldor]

Brah, 95% of people playing on console just want to push a power button and shove some gaming pixels into their eyeballs for cheap and no care in the world.

Whom are you making that for in a console that is already struggling? People who give enough damn to even do that, just go for PC anyway and you're back at step one just you have wasted a shitton of money and time for a flop.

And I'm not even talking about the nightmare that would be for M$ to optimize for that. They barely manage with even just something as Xbox X/S, that constantly comes around to fuck them again in the ass like in BG3 case and many more, and you think they'd want to support virtually limitless permutations of that?

The problem with MS right now is they have no competitive advantage. Gamepass was that competitive advantage, but that has not worked out so well so they need another gimmick.

Yall on here all the time talking about how gen z don't buy consoles, they prefer pc, mobile, streamers.

The competitive advantage of PC is user mods, customization, modularity, and the biggest weakness is non-uniform hardware, maybe ease of use.

I'm looking for a new competitive advantage for MS. In this case, adoption of the best features of PC without the worst weakness. Non-uniform hardware, in my example, would be addressed by a simple tier system of development guidelines. There would not be a myriad of options, simply a high, medium, and low. Low would be the base unit. High would be the best shit you can buy and medium would be everything else.

While granted, it isn't a perfect plan from its inception, after many permutations it could at least be considered some sort of plan.

Sometimes we all have bad ideas. What is generally loathed in business is a someone who comes in to criticize an idea without one of their own. You will get further in life if, when you see a flaw in someone else's plan, before you present it to them, you bother to come up with your own alternate plan that can be used instead. So what is it?