(TV HULU) Shōgun

[Fabinas]

I'm glad I didn't know there was a dub of this show until now. Its not bad but the original audio is superior.

Apart from people who cannot read subtitles (health or education problems), who would want to see Japanese speaking english between them and then having a translator to speak to an Englishman?

[Kathandira]

Apart from people who cannot read subtitles (health or education problems), who would want to see Japanese speaking english between them and then having a translator to speak to an Englishman?

I'm lazy sometimes and don't want to read.

Watched episode 1 last night, Dubbed. There were definitely scenes where subs would have come in handy. But all in all, Dubbed was ok enough.

[Fabinas]

Well, each to their own etc.

But i am assuming viewers usually want to engage with a show they watch and at such occasions, dubs really take away from the original.

Lazyness, "watching" a show while playing, working etc, obviously isn't included in my sense of "engaging".

I understand, though, that dubs are helpful who want to watch something in a language they don't understand at all (not speaking english in this occasion)

[Fencers]

Got to the part with the gardener.

Damn good writing.

[Kathranis]

I'm lazy sometimes and don't want to read.

Watched episode 1 last night, Dubbed. There were definitely scenes where subs would have come in handy. But all in all, Dubbed was ok enough.

English dubbing in general for both anime and live action shows is leaps and bounds beyond where it used to be, but for a period drama like this I really wouldn't want to deprive myself of the authenticity that the original Japanese audio provides, nor would I want to deprive myself of the outstanding performances of the cast, many of whom are talented native Japanese actors appearing for the first time in a Western production.

Anyway, episodes 5 and 6 have been (relatively) lowkey compared to the rollercoaster ride that was episode 4, but it's really telling that they could devote almost an entire episode to doing a character study and make it just as gripping as the political scheming and warfare. The scene where Kiku positioned herself behind Mariko while Mariko was translating her words, which slowly morphed into her intuiting her deeper desires and Mariko speaking the words as if they were her own, even forgetting to translate--beautiful.

This show really is a masterpiece.

The success its founds on streaming and positive word of mouth is also really interesting. It's really incredible that a production with a predominately Japanese cast, including a Japanese actor getting top billing over a relative unknown British lead, and 70-80% subtitled dialogue--with a subtle and complicated plot, at that--could become such a mainstream success in the West.

I'm not sure if it's years of prestige television prepping Western audiences, or just a sign of the times and the ubiquity of Japan's cultural footprint on Western entertainment, but between this and Dune Part 2 it feels like something of a sea change in what audiences want or at least are willing to engage with.

[Karreck]

Still pinching myself on how good each episode has been.

This is one of the best shows I have seen in a long time.

[Logwyn]

That's correct!

The Judges would also have accepted:

This is not my beautiful house.
This is not my beautiful wife.

Would they have accepted
What is that beautiful house?
Where does that highway go to?
Am I right, am I wrong?
My God, what have I done?


Nice to hear this might be a really good series. I think I might start watching it.

[Ihavewaffles]

how can this be on disney+, this is like something out of hbo...

[Tziva]

how can this be on disney+, this is like something out of hbo...

This is an FX show on Hulu.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

This is an FX show on Hulu.

In countries that don't get Hulu...many of the shows end up on Disney+

[PACOX]

how can this be on disney+, this is like something out of hbo...

Because Disney owns FX and control of Hulu. The US was one if the few places where tried to keep Disney+ completely family friendly. Disney+ is being transformed into the hub for all Disney's properties.

[Kathandira]

The only thing that bothers me about this show so far is the ranks awarded to a person they cannot communicate with. I do understand that gesture and honor play a large role in this. But it seems a bit strange all the same.

[Fabinas]

They are used as a protection to a very important person for Toronaga. At the same time, none of this can backfire and keeps Blackthorne under check

[Milchshake]

The only thing that bothers me about this show so far is the ranks awarded to a person they cannot communicate with. I do understand that gesture and honor play a large role in this. But it seems a bit strange all the same.

Toranaga does it deliberately to play his lieutenants against each other. Keeping their loyalty and ambitions in check. Especially Kashigi, who has been trying to play bothe sides this whole time. Though he gets a final reply in the basket.

The plotting has been subperb. Very different than the plotting of GoT. Which seems outright campy in comparison.

It's something that makes Shogun interesting at this pop culture moment. They broke from many of the narative and structural tropes of your standard GoT/Netflix series wannabe.

[Kathandira]

Toranaga does it deliberately to play his lieutenants against each other. Keeping their loyalty and ambitions in check. Especially Kashigi, who has been trying to play bothe sides this whole time. Though he gets a final reply in the basket.

The plotting has been subperb. Very different than the plotting of GoT. Which seems outright campy in comparison.

It's something that makes Shogun interesting at this pop culture moment. They broke from many of the narative and structural tropes of your standard GoT/Netflix series wannabe.

Makes sense.

Watching last night sparked a conversation about culture. The Mrs and I were talking about the pride and humility in the culture. What you say here fits into that. Leveraging their pride and humility by propping up an outsider.

[En Sabah Nur]

This series is going to go down as a classic masterpiece by the time its done. Its just too damn good.

Episode 7: Of coouuuurse Nagakado dies like a damn fool. He's spent all his time playing the part perfectly, what better way for him to go out.

[Tziva]

In countries that don't get Hulu...many of the shows end up on Disney+

Oh, good to know. I figured similar to how other platforms operate, Hulu was universally available but just region-locked certain content.

Okay, I agree that is a bit of a weird pairing.

Anyway re: the political plotting

I enjoyed the original miniseries a lot but one of the ways this version is superior is in covering the political intricacies of the plotline. Mariko makes convenient source of exposition to explain some of it, but a lot, as discussed above, is never explicitly stated and the viewer can figure out the subtleties or not. The original version was lighter on this angle and heavier on the plubplot of Blackthorne getting acquainted with Japanese culture and language. Which, to be fair, is still an interesting story and probably an easier one to grab and hold audience who don't have four+ additional decades of exposure to foreign media and reading subtitles. (Honestly I'm still kinda impressed that a complex miniseries featuring many Japanese actors speaking Japanese made it to American network television in the era it did, although I guess it was still hot off the heels of the book at the time.)

It's been ~30 years since I read the book, but this one seems closer to the novel in what it chooses to cover and to what degree.

[Milchshake]

In an ealier episode, Lady Mariko pointedly said to Blackthorne, "My Lord Toranaga is famous for his tickery."
The writers did a great job of foreshadowing Toranaga's abilites. Also that Toranaga is constantly an underdog in his struggle against the council.
I love rewatching the earlier episodes. There's so many layers.

[callipygoustp]

I wish they would not stick with the standard 8/10 episode format. They cut out some significant parts of story. Still, all in all, quite a good adaptation.

[Ayirasi]

I'm warming up to Jarvis. His acting seems less wooden.

Sawai is much better here than in Monarch.

Episode 7 had some nice surprises. Not sure which was funnier:

Toranaga's shart story, him needing 9 strikes to lop off Mizoguchi's head, or Nagakado's fatal whoopsie.

Saeki's a dick.