I hope we never see Chromie again.

[Kithelle]

I hate that they infantilize Gnomes because they're small. It's creepy.

Not like players don't do it worse

Old rp server I was on people rp'ed them as children, now that was truly creepy

[The Stormbringer]

If you don't want Chromie, I'll take her. She doesn't bother me. Plus she's really good in HotS.

[username993720]

There can still be ignoble dragons, but gotta be honest, in WoW's past, their villain dragons have almost all been universally terribly written. Nefarian is a meme, Onyxia is also a meme, though at least mildly more successful I guess, Sinestra is decent ish but she only ever gets cameos, Deathwing was okay in WC2 but he's awful in WoW, complete meme tier, Malygos went crazy then got uncrazy for Reasons and almost all the other dragon villains are "corruptions". The best one you have is Iridikron and he's better in the novels.

WoW villains are usually pretty terrible, but the Dragons are up there with the Jailor in the "uh...and you're doing this why?" Tier of nonsense. So if I have to deal with a draconic storyline I'd much rather deal with the good ones, because they make me roll my eyes far less. For me, a badly written villain is far more obnoxious than a badly written hero.

Infiltrating and trying to manipulate the humans' aristocracy is interesting my opinion. That's what visage form was about. The Human heritage questline touches upon this. Meanwhile, Iridikron's motives are "the Titans are taking over, we must fight back". I found it very lousy seeing how they retconned Deathwing's corruption motive to just "whatever means to defeat the Primal Incarmates" instead of being prone to corruption. And Iridikron is doing the same thing. This idiot doesn't realize that the Void is the enemy of the elements, the force he's been fighting for.

This is pretty subjective and kind of a different kettle of fish all together. Looking 'badass' and then being a joke imo is just narratively incongruous. On top of that, personally I think Neltharion is the best, most well written dragon they've got and all of his best feats and nuance happen in a novel. Highly recommend it though, Neltharion and Malygos in that book were so good I'm genuinely upset about how they're portrayed in game.

Yes, the game can be very disappointing. Don't expect high level of writing or performance. Most villains are just "your world is doomed" "fear me, puny mortals".

Hi, have you ever met Onyxia and Nefarian, both of which never broke their visage before their boss fights?

You realize how illogical that is? Unless they were in the companionship of other humans all the time.

Who ironically wasn't just a dragon anymore.

What was he? A bionic dragon?

I'm saying the "Visage shit" is 20+ years old now, it's a pretty established facet of Warcraft lore. Yeah, it didn't exist back in WC2, but then again neither did a lot of Warcraft's established lore.

Now that we established that it didn't exist back then, it now falls to personal opinion. I'm of the opinion that is shouldn't be used to make Dragons friendly, but for practical purposes, like fitting inside places or infiltrating a community. Heck, even Ebonhorn did that.

[Aucald]

Now that we established that it didn't exist back then, it now falls to personal opinion. I'm of the opinion that is shouldn't be used to make Dragons friendly, but for practical purposes, like fitting inside places or infiltrating a community. Heck, even Ebonhorn did that.

That point was never in contention if your original argument boils down to "I preferred WC2 to anything that came after it." Suffice it to say, you do you - but that ship has unfortunately sailed long, long ago. The best I can offer is the hope you enjoy the recent re-release on Battle.net of WC2 and WC2: BtDP.

[Ghostile]

What was he? A bionic dragon?

Ironically pretty much.

What was left of a dragon twisted by corruption to the point he's held together by his armor.

Deathwing the dragon died long before we saw him in wow.

You realize how illogical that is? Unless they were in the companionship of other humans all the time.

Why is it illogical? Because some other franchise has their dragons not spend time in humanoid forms?

[username993720]

Ironically pretty much.

What was left of a dragon twisted by corruption to the point he's held together by his armor.

Deathwing the dragon died long before we saw him in wow.

That's just poetic. He was still a Dragon. No need for the over dramatification: "he's no longer the man he used to be".

Why is it illogical? Because some other franchise has their dragons not spend time in humanoid forms?

Because there's no reason for them to remain in visage form all the time. It serves a purpose. When it doesn't, there is no reason to have it.

[Ghostile]

That's just poetic. He was still a Dragon. No need for the over dramatification: "he's no longer the man he used to be".

That's like trying to use Lich King in an argument about humans being boring and not badass enough.

Everything is badass when they get consumed by an evil power that pretty much kills who they are. But they can't be used as "This chair is so badass" while the chair is the literal incarnation of a dark god. The chair isn't badass, the dark god is.
Just like with deathwing what was left of the dragon was the shape, everything else was a dark god.

Because there's no reason for them to remain in visage form all the time. It serves a purpose. When it doesn't, there is no reason to have it.

Because there is a rule written by someone that dragons cannot enjoy their visage forms?

[Shadowferal]

Illusions have function...utility. When you enjoy them, they become delusions.

[Ghostile]

Illusions have function...utility. When you enjoy them, they become delusions.

Considering the dragons actually become human sized it's more than an illusion.

[username993720]

That's like trying to use Lich King in an argument about humans being boring and not badass enough.

Everything is badass when they get consumed by an evil power that pretty much kills who they are. But they can't be used as "This chair is so badass" while the chair is the literal incarnation of a dark god. The chair isn't badass, the dark god is.
Just like with deathwing what was left of the dragon was the shape, everything else was a dark god.

Yeah, the background is more like an excuse. He was just more of a dragon. Lava and fire? Yes, please.

Because there is a rule written by someone that dragons cannot enjoy their visage forms?

Enjoy? What's the purpose of being a giant dragon if their dream is to be a puny mortal?

[Ghostile]

Yeah, the background is more like an excuse. He was just more of a dragon. Lava and fire? Yes, please.

Last I checked the dragons in wow the baseline wasn't being turned into a pile of corruption.

If other franchises make dragons piles of lava and fire, sure, wow doesn't so he wasn't more of a dragon.

- - - Updated - - -

Enjoy? What's the purpose of being a giant dragon if their dream is to be a puny mortal?

This is going to shock you, but because they wrote it so.
There is no "You must write dragons like other franchises" rule.

[Aucald]

Enjoy? What's the purpose of being a giant dragon if their dream is to be a puny mortal?

This is exceedingly hyperbolic - any given dragon's set identity concerning their Visage doesn't mean or even imply they "dream to be a puny mortal." They simply take a mortal guise they feel best resonates with who they are on a personal level. Most dragons spend the majority of their lives in their draconic forms , even with a chosen Visage form. Dragons are exceedingly long-lived and spend most of their lifetime in solitude, so even among those we see the most (e.g. Chromie, Alexstrasza, Kalec, etc.) we're still only seeing them for an infinitesimal portion of their actual lives.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Yeah, the background is more like an excuse. He was just more of a dragon. Lava and fire? Yes, please.



Enjoy? What's the purpose of being a giant dragon if their dream is to be a puny mortal?

They can enjoy socializing with other sentient species without dreaming of becoming one. Druids enjoy their various shapeshift forms; doesn't mean they long to give up their true form.

[username993720]

Last I checked the dragons in wow the baseline wasn't being turned into a pile of corruption.

If other franchises make dragons piles of lava and fire, sure, wow doesn't so he wasn't more of a dragon.

That what was unique about the black dragonflight. Now they're just another mundane variation of dragons.

This is going to shock you, but because they wrote it so.
There is no "You must write dragons like other franchises" rule.

Then, i consider it bad writing.
Look at the Dreadlords, for example, they also disguise themselves for infiltration purposes.

They can enjoy socializing with other sentient species without dreaming of becoming one. Druids enjoy their various shapeshift forms; doesn't mean they long to give up their true form.

Actually, the more Druids of the Claw spent time in their Bear form, the more feral they became.
I don't think they should be fraternizing with mortal races. They need to be above us, to keep some awe and mystery to them. Otherwise, they're just another general creatures.

[Ghostile]

That what was unique about the black dragonflight. Now they're just another mundane variation of dragons.

But that was literally just one of them who got to that point.
The rest hung out in their humanoid forms doing politics.

Then, i consider it bad writing.
Look at the Dreadlords, for example, they also disguise themselves for infiltration purposes.

Bad writing just because you prefer how other franchises write dragons?

[username993720]

But that was literally just one of them who got to that point.
The rest hung out in their humanoid forms doing politics.

Hmmm... no. Only major characters like Onyxia and Nefarian.

Bad writing just because you prefer how other franchises write dragons?

Tell me, what is a dragon to you?

[Ghostile]

Tell me, what is a dragon to you?

In which franchise?

[Shadowferal]

Considering wow doesn't do dragons, that's a relevant question.

[SilverLion]

Infiltrating and trying to manipulate the humans' aristocracy is interesting my opinion. That's what visage form was about. The Human heritage questline touches upon this. Meanwhile, Iridikron's motives are "the Titans are taking over, we must fight back". I found it very lousy seeing how they retconned Deathwing's corruption motive to just "whatever means to defeat the Primal Incarmates" instead of being prone to corruption. And Iridikron is doing the same thing. This idiot doesn't realize that the Void is the enemy of the elements, the force he's been fighting for.



Yes, the game can be very disappointing. Don't expect high level of writing or performance. Most villains are just "your world is doomed" "fear me, puny mortals".



You realize how illogical that is? Unless they were in the companionship of other humans all the time.



What was he? A bionic dragon?



Now that we established that it didn't exist back then, it now falls to personal opinion. I'm of the opinion that is shouldn't be used to make Dragons friendly, but for practical purposes, like fitting inside places or infiltrating a community. Heck, even Ebonhorn did that.

So, just to touch on your Iridikron vs Neltharion point: It's not a retcon at all. It's an expansion. He's not prone to corruption because he's solely hanging out underground. He's prone to corruption because he was almost single minded in his desire to protect Azeroth. In fact he literally built a lab underground that turned out to be a massive mistake and he didn't realize it. Abberus was a normalish forge before he started tacking on deep chambers, conveniently close to where the Old Gods could influence him. Where of course, the corruption really took hold. Seriously, read War of the Scaleborn. Lots of MMOC lore posters rage about in game lore but can't be bothered to actually go find the lore they're missing. Yeah it sucks its not in game but it is what it is. Everything you said about Deathwing applies to Iridikron almost beat for beat. It's almost like, and stay with me here, they were designed to be mirrors of each other. So the only practical difference between the two is how they work in Visage form. Deathwing schemed with mortals, Iridikron schemed with other Dragons.

[Shadowferal]

Uea...Idiokron...whatever, ruined the whole world too...real big threat. /s