Mace spec nerf and PvP class balance

[Boubouille]

Kalgan made a couple of blue posts in this thread about upcoming changes to PvP. Out of the wall of text, there are two very interesting comments.

Question
And does that include toning down Stormherald swinging, Mortal Strike Warriors, who are dominating GROUP PvP? That's where balance is supposed to be met, right?

Answer
Yes, one of the changes is a reduction to the mace spec stun proc rate. It should still be as good as the other specs, just not clearly the favorite.

Question
Is it acceptable to you, the game developers, where Warlocks are?

Answer
Nope. Although I could probably say that to varying degree about any class depending on what particular part of the game you're talking about. Patch 2.2 has the resilience change for starters, and patch 2.3 has more changes, including improvements to a lot of the things that were discussed at blizzcon.

Source

This also means that the 2.3 will probably be a huge patch like what the 2.1 was, with tons of improvements for each class. (as well with Guild banks and Zul'aman)

RSS feed bugs
Lately I've been getting a bunch of mails saying that the RSS feed isn't updating properly. To be honest I really don't know why people are experiencing some bugs, but the most likely reason is a wrong RSS feed URL. The RSS feed for latest news from the homepage is this one

If you add a RSS feed from the site while you're not on the homepage (like on the news forums), you'll get the feed from this forum, but not the real news feed. Let me know if you're still experiencing problems after you doubletriple-checked the URL.

Meanwhile on PvPScene.com

• Resilience cap and you
• Shaman PvP Builds (Part 1: Restoration) (Forum)

[overneathe]

Yey! Erm.... Zul'Aman!?!!

[enzi]

Patch 2.2 has the resilience change for starters...

Have I missed something?
Btw. I think it was clear to any warrior that the Stormherald/Mace Stun Procc will be nerfed but, is the mace stun really on par with axe/sword after the nerf? I don't think so.

[Qaos]

Wow mace spec nerfed? OK so I just tossed my Mooncleaver and Black Planar Edge in the bank for both Tier 2 Hammersmith maces. First, they nerf haste so I'm not really thrilled about this 1Hander that only had haste as a buff to begin with. Now, they're nerfing the stun proc? WoW, I thught giving up the insane crits was bad enough....guess not. Glad that the mace has it's own proc, along with a meta out there, but really-this sucks. Good thing I haven't picked what to use my vortexes on yet. Blizzard is trying to put melee DPS out of a job.

[Obould]

Maybe this means the hunter only arena weapon is coming in 2.3. *crosses fingers*

[Kajitt]

what do you mean trying to put melee dps out of a job.....thought they'd already done that

[Sulika]

To paraphrase world of roguecraft:

Lvl 25 Priest: Warlocks are so overpowered, they either gotta be nerfed or priests gotta be buffed.
Blizzard: There there, my darlings. Don't cry! You know who's got your back! We'll nerf warriors again.
Lvl 25 Priest: Thanks Blizz!!!!

Personally I think they would be better off taking the stun proc off of Stormherald than they are nerfing Mace Spec since that spec is only really viable because it stacks so well with Deep Thunder / Stormherald. Has anyone ever seen a warrior wielding the arena reward 2h mace?

[Djaevlen]

Personally I think they would be better off taking the stun proc off of Stormherald than they are nerfing Mace Spec since that spec is only really viable because it stacks so well with Deep Thunder / Stormherald. Has anyone ever seen a warrior wielding the arena reward 2h mace?

Yes.

[Nero Duskwind]

I'd assume that rogues' Mace Spec will get the nerf bat as well. Warriors won't put up with this without crying about Rogue mace spec, and I have guildies that PvP in arena who complain about how overpowered the spec is.

[Ironic]

Sword spec FTW ^^

[Synneth]

The stun effect from Stormherald/etc has a very low proc chance (1%) and shows up as "Stun" on the debuff list. The "Mace Stun Effect" is the stun from the talent which appears much more frequently and is the main cause of frustration.

The reason everyone uses Stormherald over the arena mace is (I believe) because of the difference in speed, since it is a 3.8s weapon instead of 3.6s it's top damage is obviously higher (579 compared to 549) which leads to harder hitting specials and thus more burst damage, bigger WF procs, etc. The extra stun proc is an added bonus that hardly ever happens.

Personally I think Stormherald should be normalised to 3.6s - I believe that hardcore PvPers in the arena should not be affected by PvE gear if at all possible.

[Diezul]

The mace spec nerf is small beans, if you look at the progression of warriors and gear it generally goes Axe spec when your stats are hurting for the crit, mace spec when you have decent crit and want some stuns, and sword when you have good crit and ap and want straight burst dmg.

I myself am currently a 2k+ arena rating using blacksmith mace, and was planning on switching to season 3 sword when released prior to the mace nerf info as im sure many higher rated arena wars were.

[Keldoeri29]

I don't agree with the nerf AT ALL, but i do agree that, coupled with Stormherald's stun effect, Mace Spec wont take too much of it.

I do have one question: How did the word "proc" come about and what is it short for? I just one day found myself using that word along with the rest of us??

[snaek]

I do have one question: How did the word "proc" come about and what is it short for? I just one day found myself using that word along with the rest of us??

http://wowwiki.com/Proc

Seems nobody really knows. :>

[Keldoeri29]

-_- about the meaning and orgin of proc

Anywhoo, back to the nerf, after really thinking about it, i still stand with my original stance and am a bit against it. I think players are upset because of the Mace Spec + Stormherald Stun proc combo working too well. The thing is when you have two items/abilities ( Stormherald + Mace Spec ) i for one, use my common sense and put two and two together and KNOW that stun procs are gonna happen.

Now, the thing is this: Prior to having Stormherald ( or any mace/weapon/trinket/item with a chance to stun effect ) does Mace Specialization Proc really that much? Now if the answer is yes, then maybe there is a bug, because ( i cant look it up right now im at work with Websen protection DOH!! ) Mace Spec SHOULD proc as much as Sword Spec which is ONLY a 5% proc rate. Now if it's working normally, then wouldn't that mean that SS would need a nerf too? See where im getting at? Now check this out.

Say everything is procing as it should. Now, get a Sword Spec'd MS/Fury warrior ( bear with me here ) and give him a non-unique MH/OH swords that have a chance to gain an extra attack? Now, make those swords swordsmith only. Already that puts those types of warrior in a small niche. The proc rate would be ridiculuos because of not only the warriors innate 5% SS ability but now he has TWO swords, so thats a 10% chance off the bat, now each sword has its own SS type proc? nerf SS warriors right?

Thats what i believe is going on here. It's just a case of great weapon coupled with a DECENT AT BEST ability that you cant rely on really and , because i believe w/out Stormherald, then the Mace Spec would look 'normal'

Phew that was a lot to type, i hope this makes sense as, again im at work, and trying to squeeze this in

[Skahr]

TIME TO FARM THRASHBLADE AND BRD TRINKET!!!








o wait...

[Synneth]

Anywhoo, back to the nerf, after really thinking about it, i still stand with my original stance and am a bit against it. I think players are upset because of the Mace Spec + Stormherald Stun proc combo working too well. The thing is when you have two items/abilities ( Stormherald + Mace Spec ) i for one, use my common sense and put two and two together and KNOW that stun procs are gonna happen.

It isn't the two items together. I rarely ever see the stun from the mace, it's the stun from the talents that happens all the time. The reason this has become an issue recently is that no-one used a mace until now (and so no one had good exposer to the mace stun talent) because the best PvP two handers were all swords/maces except for MoM.

Now, the thing is this: Prior to having Stormherald ( or any mace/weapon/trinket/item with a chance to stun effect ) does Mace Specialization Proc really that much? Now if the answer is yes, then maybe there is a bug, because ( i cant look it up right now im at work with Websen protection DOH!! ) Mace Spec SHOULD proc as much as Sword Spec which is ONLY a 5% proc rate. Now if it's working normally, then wouldn't that mean that SS would need a nerf too? See where im getting at? Now check this out.

I don't think it means SS needs a nerf since the two are not equatable.

I believe that in the arena, control is more potent than burst damage. That extra attack might give you a little bit more damage, but that stun allows your team-mates to catch up, stops a cast going off such as a heal or CC, stops a player moving out of LoS of the assist train, or one of another thousand scenarios.

Simply put, a stun is better than more damage, therefore the stun proc rate should be reduced accordingly to reflect its relative power compared to sword spec.

[Keldoeri29]

It isn't the two items together. I rarely ever see the stun from the mace, it's the stun from the talents that happens all the time. The reason this has become an issue recently is that no-one used a mace until now (and so no one had good exposer to the mace stun talent) because the best PvP two handers were all swords/maces except for MoM.

Ok cool, like i said, if the Talent Stun is 'over' procing, then yes i would agree with a SLIGHT nerf, as i mentioned in my post, so we both agree there

As a side note i really would like to commend the VERY constructive posts that i have seen here at MMO, everything seems to read before they post and when they do post, have a reason behind what they feel on x subject

[Sulika]

Now, the thing is this: Prior to having Stormherald ( or any mace/weapon/trinket/item with a chance to stun effect ) does Mace Specialization Proc really that much? Now if the answer is yes, then maybe there is a bug, because ( i cant look it up right now im at work with Websen protection DOH!! ) Mace Spec SHOULD proc as much as Sword Spec which is ONLY a 5% proc rate. Now if it's working normally, then wouldn't that mean that SS would need a nerf too? See where im getting at? Now check this out.

Mace Spec proc rate is according to wowwiki 11% proc chance with a 3.8 speed weapon, i.e. It gives a 3 second stun and 6 rage to the wielder. If you want to contrast this with sword specs 5% proc rate in a typical 100 attacks you will get 5 free attacks with sword spec. With mace spec you will get 11 stun procs, giving 33 seconds of stun for 8.7 free autoattacks (with a 3.8 speed weapon). )With diminishing returns you will probably see slightly less stun but on average you should see more than enough time elapse between stuns for the diminishing returns timer to reset, if you are getting diminishing returns it means you are getting more than 1 stun every 15 seconds which it has to be fair to say is rather unnaturally powerful).

Add on top of this that while your mace procs your opponent is completely cc'd and so also very vulnerable to teammates along with it interrupting spells and I suppose it could be said that it is more powerful than sword spec for PvP since it procs twice as often and basically gives you the free autoattack of sword spec anyway since your opponent will be stunned nearly long enough to hit them again, yet also gives all your teammates a free smack on the stunned opponent too.

However you need to contrast that with mace spec being pretty much useless for PvE since pretty much every boss in the game is immune to stuns. What will they do to it? Mostly I suspect the lazy option and nerf the proc rate. It would be interesting if they turned it into a knockdown instead of a stun since it would retain a lot of its utility as a spell interrupt while losing the arguably overpowered stun and would also solve the problems with it triggering diminishing returns (making rogues and warriors work together slightly better).

[Juju]

Am I the only one happy that Blizz is going to nerf locks a bit further? (I play a lock too for those who don't know yet, don't get all flammy at me, not worth it really).

As for the stuns... well, the other day I saw 8 MS warrs in a WSG all with stormherald, I literaly got stuned for 10min... Is that enough to justify a nerf? Probably not, this was a premade and we were being scrubs about it, and probably could have won if we had had healing healers (that's when u know I'm ally...)
Then again, a nerf doesn't mean it's going to be a bad spec, it could very well be a minor change... wait and see?