Sunwell badge loot prices available !

[rothomp3]

And to make it a bit more clear:

I play for the content, the bosses and their background lore.
I play for the challenge, the challenge that provides fun for me and my guild.

I do NOT fucking play for farming badges over and over again.

Hey, fuckhead… did you read the part where BoJ will drop from all 25 man raid bosses now? No? Then shut the hell up with telling other people to go read. You really need to take a chill pill. The loot from the badge vendor is inferior to everything in BT/MH, with exception of the crossbow for Hunters. The only reason it's so good is because Blizzard's itemization team apparently still believes Marksmanship is the raid spec, so they thought a "fast" 2.80 speed would be "bad."

With that exception, the rest of the loot is badly itemized compared to MH/BT items. Not only that, it costs 150 Badges for a weapon. 150. That's 8 weeks of full Karazhan clears for one item. That is not "EZ Mode" or "Casual friendly," sorry.

On the official forum, Drysc explicitly stated the new items are not intended for "casuals" or "small-group content." They cost so many badges specifically because they are for raiders.

[Fugazi]

Did I miss something and they changed Kara timer? As somebody counted here x2 a week. Source?

Anyhow BoJ rewards are made mostly to aid raiders (there is even fresh blue post about it somewhere), that is why they cost so much badges and that is why 25 mans start dropping those.

Of course you can get them by doing Heroics but it will be VERY slow. The more you raid, the more/faster BoJ rewards you will get. Plus as said BoJ rewards are made "worse" on purpose. They are still very good but not perfect and worse than "perfect" loot from "real" raids.

I seriously do not understand people bitching about BoJ rewards. I would understand if they would help in PvP but they are mostly not helping or it is same way as raid gear - glass cannon mode. If people get that gear and have it easier in heroics or faster progress in raids it is only good for everyone.

People should look at their raid and ask themselfs: will this help my raid/guild/alt? Answer is YES. So be happy god damn it!

[Pyrostemplar]

*shrug* Going to have to agree to disagree. With the BC release (and up until patch 2.4), I've seen Blizzard actually acknowledge that every decision they made back in vanilla was not perfect and (the horror!) make changes to correct things.

The Rank 14 honor grind before was moronically painful. Running MC over and over and over again with tons and tons of trash mobs was painful. So many things took so much time for the simple fact that there was nothing else to do. Now there are big raids, small raids, heroic dungeons, arenas, BGs, daily quests, rep grinds, useful professions for which to farm, etc.

Personally I think people are just nostalgic because WoW was amazingly fun when it came out and it's hard to top that first impression. But BC has brought tons and tons of content and new things to do. If people are burnt out because they've played the same game 60 hours a week for 3+ years that isn't necessarily the fault of the designers or representative of a lack of effort on Blizzard's part. You mentioned reskinned armor and player/guild housing. Those are two features I couldn't honestly care less about. I realize that they are top on your priority list and therefore you feel Blizzard is being lazy by not giving you what you want. But there are some popular things (like instant flight paths) that people cry for and Blizzard (correctly) has not implemented.

I've tried many games and the only ones I've become addicted to are Starcraft, Diablo II and World of Warcraft. People love to trash Blizzard (and trust me, there are reasons) but in the end they design the games that people flock to and play for hours and hours.

There are reasons that some of their decisions should be criticized or questioned. I just think patch 2.4 in general and this semi-good badge loot in particular is any reason to do so.

Blizzard has been a great games designer. Don't misunderstand me about it. I would not rate their TBC effort to be anything up to Blizzard past history - just remember the complete mess that the initial TBC release was in terms of cardinal game issues such as itemization (T4 lol) and class balance (super Droooods).

Also, the issues I mentioned were just popular examples (I really couldn't care less about the armour design, although it is very sloppy). But that is not the issue - question is that more resources doesn't necessarily translate into a better game.

Another thing is simply that Blizzard as a MMO developer has one of the worst relation with their costumers I've seen. Maybe because the popularity of the game, perhaps due to the player base mentality. Truthfully is not easy for a dev to manage the biased and short minded mentality of a playerbase made of classes. But many things that Blizz devs say are simply second rate excuses - or simple lies.

That said, I don't say that some changes - many changes actually - in TBC were not for the best. Even including the new badge gear - something I actually support as a gear path (once posted about it). Question is that the game, as a whole, is not comparatively better - and it could be - because it can't encompass the dynamic nature of PVP and the static nature of PVE (gearwise) at the same time.

[Tergeron]

New patch notes online.

The fake notes were in fact. REAL *somewhat*

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patch...atchnotes.html

DRUIDS

Lifebloom healing coefficient has been reduced.
Nurturing Instinct increases your healing spells by up to 50/100% of your Agility, and increases healing done to you by 10/20% of your Attack Power while in Cat form.

Mages

Arcane Fortitude now increases your armor by an amount equal to 100% of your Intellect, up from 50%.
Blink, Slow, and Spellsteal have all had their mana cost reduced.
Icy Veins no longer stacks with Bloodlust/Heroism.
New Talent: Molten Shields will cause your Fire Ward to have a 10/20% chance to reflect Fire spells while active. In addition, your Molten Armor has a 50/100% chance to affect ranged and spell attacks.

Alot more then just what I listed

[Ramble]

I am, I allready canceled my account.

So everything after this post is pretty meaningless, isn't it Windcape?

Seriously... you talk about an MMO being able to support that 1% of the player base that will see high end raiding content, right? You realize that without the other 99% of the gaming 'retards' out there that WoW wouldn't have the funds to put together that 1% of the content, right?

I like the many paths to be able to see more of the content for casual gamers like myself. I mean, I pay the same amount of money that even that 1% does... so shouldn't I have access to almost as much of the content? If that means I have to farm Kara for badges to give me that leg up because I'm not as good a gamer as some, so that I get to see some of the fine content that Blizzard has put together for the majority of the player base... I say kudos to them!

WoW has never been a difficult game btw. That is why it is attractive to as many folks as it is. Its a chat room with an item database attached to it. Those that are constantly epeening about how they are elite and all... heh... too funny. Blizzard designs its systems to insure one thing only... that they retain their entire player base for as long as possible. So it's no suprise that they add in a badge grind as an option to progress.

[Ramble]

Oh, I actually had a question too... are these badge rewards going to be available in patch 2.4? Or do we wait for the expansion till we see them?

[Azain]

You always had access to all the content. If you're saying you can't progress, because this computergame is stategical to hard for either you, or your guild, then you should consider doing some changes? Either l2p , or find a better guild?

your elitism is astounding. like 6-8 weeks ago weren't you complaining about chain wiping on the nerfed versions of vashj/kael?

now you break through that roadblock, maybe with archimonde or illidan down since that time, maybe (confirm your progression imo)...and you talk down to every other person who wishes to see content :-\

It's rather pointless to demand easier access to something you will never be able to do anyway, unless you change something fundamental,
which would then allow you to do it,without the changes anyway.

i could probably dig up a few quotes from you talking about kael and the same situation, don't make me dig through mmo just to prove a point...

I don't enjoy boss nerfs, very few encounters are challenging enough allready. Removing more and more of the challenge in the game, because
it's "to hard" for the majority is just silly. Imo. follow the leader, not the weakest part of the chain.

again iirc you haven't had a chance to enjoy them because 2.4 will bring the first set of boss nerfs you may actually experience. wiping in karazhan is terrible, but he never said that is what he is stuck on. and tbh 4/5 and 5/9 is not hard for the average raiding guild with half a brain. you act like pve is a race with only 1 winner, and the other runners should never even get a chance to cross the finish line. some guilds are slower than others for many, many reasons and that is no reason to deny them the chance at it. again refer to naxx pre-tbc. blizzard wants the maximum amount of people to see the content, within reason, not spending countless man-hours developing encounters for the 1-2 guilds per server that spend the 40 hours a week to conquer them.

also, going back to the race scenario which seems to quite nicely fit your pov - if that were the case you would be in his position QQ'ing about content while nihilum or DnT or vis maior clear everything first within minutes of each other. don't let tanking in some already farmed and fading content go to your head. if it does feel free to keep it off the forums, imo they are not intended for that purpose >

[Ramble]

Again... as you have cancelled your account... does it really matter to you?

And the challenges will still be out there for you, so why does it matter if others are able to reach that content through gear acquired in a manner different than the way that you progressed?

Example: There are those that excell at PvP, and especially the DPS classes/spec can walk into a lot of the higher end PvE content and fit in quite well. Same can happen for those that want to mess about in PvP and have high-end raiding gear to play with. So why is it so abhorrent for those that can grind out badge-gear as they're path of progression to be able to fit in and have fun in higher end PvP or PvE content? Because they haven't earned it by doing it the way you have?

As to the difficulty? It's more difficult find 24 other people that have the same schedule you do and the same gear progression you do than it is to defeat that actual content... especially when the strategies are being spoon fed to you by the guilds at the frontlines of progression doing all of the hard work.

Bottom line... since you obviously won't need to grind Kara for badges (since you will be doing all the crazy-difficult content further up the food-chain) then what does it matter to you if others will be taking this path?

[Azain]

again you are hung up on best gear in the game. for dps only its viable. do you tank in s3 as a druid? doubtful...does any tank or heal in s3? NO. dps have to full on socket +hit and even then they are left short having more stam/resil and not enough crit and spell dmg / attack power.

you say its no effort and i agree to lose 10 games at 1500. and again you get hung up on that. people getting 313 points a week get 3 pieces over a period of 4 months. buying points is of course an exception, and reason for personal rating on more gear. that is something that needs to be fixed.

telling people to l2p or get a new guild is talking down to them...and yes you did gruul before shatter nerf, didn't know you took a break tho, point being if you have people messing up on your raids as you say that problem was alleviated somewhat by the t5 content nerfs.

i could care less if you buy s3 gear with badges or tokens. but you don't have to. just put those 10 res gems in your t5/t6 gear and you will be fine for arenas, or at the very least viable. clearly we differ greatly on this topic, but its not like those s3 people are littering your raids so who cares if blizz gives them a chance? they are nerfing content you dont even do anymore...that is definitely elitism :-\

[Pig]

Getting some of the best gear in the game, without putting any special effort into it.... fair to some, not to me.

What complete and utter sensationalist crap.

I have full S3.. how did i get it? By having full T6. I really couldn't care less if someone loses 10 games at 1500 a week, for 4 months, to get 3 items of kit.

Why don't i care? Because i've had the benefit of having the Gear before them. This point is crucial and its one that's just whitewashed over time after time. In fact its been said so many times and in so many examples i give up trying to explain it. Why can't people understand that as time go on and content gets older, Blizzard will make it easier for people that haven't experienced it, to be able to experience it. In 18-24 months time we'll be having this exact same conversation, as Blizzard start to make the Northend content easier for those that haven't yet experienced it. Will i be complaining? No.... Why?... because i'll have finished that content 6 months before the other 98% of the 9 MILLION people that play this game. Will my achievements be any less worthy than those that can't put as much time into the game as me?..... No.

People really need to understand this point.... As time goes on and as content gets older, Blizzard will make it easier for the masses to experience it. Thats the policy that they have adopted. Accept it or go and do a Windscape, cancel your account.

[Ardan]

Handing out rewards like this for badges is a lot like giving fourth grader a million bucks for tying his shoes. Fourth graders don't need rewards for tying their shoes unless they're retarded.

I think that this is the thing that galls many endgamers. We've got a better raid than most of the people on our server. We've got great players, we've got great leadership and we made a commitment to being very good at what we do. We spent a lot of time practicing it. We spent golds upon golds and hours of our lives getting better at it, and every time we surmount a challenge Blizzard comes along lowers the bar for the next folks. Yes its elitist, and part of the great thing about being an elitist is that it doesn't bother me in the slightest that I am one.

People are going to say that I'm just QQing and that it WILL be a challenge to get all the badges, and it won't happen overnight, and after all, we've worked hard in KZ and we deserve some credit too. To them I say this: Karazhan and the heroics are to engame content what getting off your butt and going to the kitchen for a coke is to the Boston Marathon. No comparison. The gear rewards from the "heading to the fridge" raids should reflect the comparative level of difficulty, nuff said.

[Pig]

The gear rewards from the "heading to the fridge" raids should reflect the comparative level of difficulty, nuff said.

Everyone after me....

Are you Windscape in Disguise!!!! Are you Windsscape in Dissssssguise....

[Vilfort]

I totally agree with Ardan. It's so sad to see how the effort people put in is reduced to nothing over time.

I haven't even progressed nicely myself. I've screwed up, staying to long with a guild that just didn't have the skill, then changing server only to find out that I missed my old server. I'm now in a guild that has the skill but is having a recruitment crisis. Therefore I haven't even killed Vashj yet, but I understand why - it's my own fault. Not only did I do the above mistakes, I also changed main from priest to tank, and currently changing back again.

My guild has cleared ZA, but the people still prefer to go Karazhan on non-25-man evenings. Why? Because Karazhan is easy mode and gives more badges! Judging from the badge loot upgrades they will be doing this for months to come - meaning that we've spent more than a year farming Karazhan!? What's the point in that? Where's the challenge?

I shall probably buy a few of these excellent items, but I'll do it as a bitter man. Cause I didn't earn them. How can a nice gear-upgrade mean anything if everyone gets it anyway?

Oh, and my personal oppinion is that Blizzard is aiming more to please the tekkenwankers (arena-dudes with no respect for the original concept of WoW) then to please the real WoW-player. This is another result of that, if you ask me. Sad-sad.

[Curtis]

My guild has cleared ZA, but the people still prefer to go Karazhan on non-25-man evenings. Why? Because Karazhan is easy mode and gives more badges!

ZA sucks. The first three boss have 0 interest, 4th is fun, 5 is ok, final boss is just boring.

And Karazhan looks really good, ZA is terrible.

[Vilfort]

Nothing is forcing you to play this game on said server. Don't like it Change what you can or move on. Spare us your Opinions.

This argument is so bloody rotten. Hear it over and over: "If you disagree with the changes, just play another game". But the thing is, it's people like the ones saying this very sentence that is ruining the beatifull game that WoW once was. Those people are the ones that should go play other games, not the ones that started playing wow for what it originally was.

If you cant accept that dedication is rewarded, play another game. If you can't accept that you shouldn't get the very best gear if you only want to play Arena, go play Tekken. WoW was originally about rewarding the ones that put in the effort and it's sad that it had to be changed so that tekkenplayers and others not suited for the original setup would keep paying money to play it.

[Pig]

Vilfort... what the hell are you talking about?

I get rewarded by raiding.... how has that changed? Your post stinks of someone thats crying because they get owned by people in PVP gear. Get over it, Raiders can't PVP in their PVE gear anymore.

[Blackmane]

we made a commitment to being very good at what we do. We spent a lot of time practicing it. We spent golds upon golds and hours of our lives getting better at it, and every time we surmount a challenge Blizzard comes along lowers the bar for the next folks. Yes its elitist, and part of the great thing about being an elitist is that it doesn't bother me in the slightest that I am one.

All of your so-called achievements are within a GAME, which changes drastically with every patch. What do you expect for your accomplishments? A monument to commemorate the great boss kill no. 2345 on server no. 456? If you want something more concrete to show for your "effort" and "time" do something more worthwhile with your life than simply be great at a game. You'd have better luck at bitching about the achievement system on xbox live, a token proving accomplishment is no different than a piece of gear fitting into a slot. You should at least be able see how the two are the same.

By your logic, every expansion in an MMO is a complete waste of your previous play time? Then why bother playing the game if that's how you feel? If your goal is to be the best at raiding, then accept that as being only a temporary thing, as with every patch and expansion, guess what, your accomplishments are eroded. You had over three years to get this point.

As far as the premier guilds clearing this stuff while it's still on PTR, do you think their achievements are any more permanent. If they are lucky maybe someone there will get a dev job at some next mmo like it happened with EQ and WoW.

I'm sorry that you feel that your efforts are now wasted, but maybe you should reevaluate what you are spending your time at succeeding if this bothers you so much.

[mictavis]

Does anyone have an estimated release date for 2.4? I want to have my badges ready as soon as it is released and need to calculate how much i need to farm between now and then.

[Pyrostemplar]

Does anyone have an estimated release date for 2.4? I want to have my badges ready as soon as it is released and need to calculate how much i need to farm between now and then.

No one but Blizzard (if that) can tell. But my guess is it won't be in March. Think April.