affliction WL in raid

[Deleted]

hey you guys, i was wondering: every 25man group seems to have 5 WLs at least. why not make one (just one) of them spec affliction (40 0 21)?

- Improved curse of shadows --> 3% more dmg by all the WLs and SPs
- same ISB uptime, the dmg of the WL himself will be maybe a little less, but with powerful corruption & nightfall, i think the dmg buff from CoS equalizes that in the raid dmg
- shadow embrace (up to 5% less melee dmg done by mobs)

any thoughts, or experiences?

[Phreeze]

we ususally raid with 2-4 warlocks. In 3 and 4 setup, there was a 41 affli warlock. For CoS,shadow embrace. Now they're all Destro.

check the elitist forums for Warlock mechanics, it will help you more then random answers here

[dnz]

Affliction Warlocks are nice if you are doing ssc/tk/bt/hyjal.
As soon as you enter Sunwell you're gonna need all the dps you can get which destro>affliction sadly.

I was a hardcore affliction warlock all the way up to Brutallus, after that affliction didnt cut it. Had to respecc destro to up my dps.

[Deleted]

we ususally raid with 2-4 warlocks. In 3 and 4 setup, there was a 41 affli warlock. For CoS,shadow embrace. Now they're all Destro.

check the elitist forums for Warlock mechanics, it will help you more then random answers here

quote from elitistjerks:

Due to the high amount of raid benefits (Blood Pact, Malediction, Shadow Embrace), having at least one affliction warlock in a raid is recommended.

thats why i wondered none of the highend raids used one. is nether protection a must for all warlocks in highend raids?

I believe that the increase of raid performance by one single affli wl is great. in my raid (only ssc), i am doing ok in the dmg meters also, but i'm in there for the raid benefits. and it works.

[Deleted]

Affliction Warlocks are nice if you are doing ssc/tk/bt/hyjal.
As soon as you enter Sunwell you're gonna need all the dps you can get which destro>affliction sadly.

I was a hardcore affliction warlock all the way up to Brutallus, after that affliction didnt cut it. Had to respecc destro to up my dps.

ah ok thanks for sharing the experience...
but is it so that the dps you yourself gain by respeccing makes up for the dps the raid looses?

[Heliosuk]

I would say that nether protection is a complete must for all warlocks these days there is so much raid damage going on no which is mostly fire/shadow so as healing is already tight using nether protection will make some happy raid healers

[Warlocomotif]

The most important thing affliction has going for it is malediction, that is +3% dmg to all shadow users.
Lets say you have 2 destro locks at 1400 DPS, 1 affli lock at 1000 DPS, and 2 shadow priests at 900 DPS.
(I dont know if these are reasonable figures relative to eachother, so correct me where wrong).

2x 3% of 1400 (84) + 2x 3% of 900 (54) = 138. So raid dps would be higher if you were a 1400 DPS destro lock.
The more locks/shadowpriests you add though, the better that 1 affli lock gets.

[dnz]

ah ok thanks for sharing the experience...
but is it so that the dps you yourself gain by respeccing makes up for the dps the raid looses?

Yeah it does.
With affliction specc and gear I got about 1500 dps on Brutallus.
When I respecced and got proper destro gear my dps was up at 2000+.

I really liked playing affliction and wanted to play it but both me and my raidleaders realized that destro was a better choice in Sunwell.
So if your guild is aiming at killing a few bosses in Sunwell I'd say switch to destro early and gear up. If not, you should do fine with affliction.

[Gwen]

Affliction > Destro as long as you don't have T6-like stuff, especially the 4T6pieces bonus.

[kilssii]

Affliction > Destro as long as you don't have T6-like stuff, especially the 4T6pieces bonus.

Not

[Kruk]

ah ok thanks for sharing the experience...
but is it so that the dps you yourself gain by respeccing makes up for the dps the raid looses?

Meladiction is only 3% more shadow damage while improved shadowbolt debuff is 20% more shadow damage.
It is much more beneficial to other warlock and shadow priests dps to renew iSB debuff as often as possible.
The easiest way to this is spam shadowbolts as often as possible with high crit ratio as destruction lock.
Affliction warlock does not cast shadowbolts often enough. He focus on recasting his DoTs and SB is only filler.

[Kruk]

Affliction > Destro as long as you don't have T6-like stuff, especially the 4T6pieces bonus.

Destruction > Affliction as soon as you are hit caped, got decent crit rating and decent spelldmg.
Late T5 should be enough.

[Vudu]

Destro passes up Affliction around late t5 content in terms of dps (or perhaps a little earlier) and the gap keeps on widening with gear. Thus eventually, destro gets so far ahead that affliction isn't worth it anymore, which is around brutallus or a little after (some might would argue a little earlier).

[Deleted]

The more locks/shadowpriests you add though, the better that 1 affli lock gets.

that's right. ofc i was adressing a 25 raid with 5 locks and 3 SPs, e.g. (sk setup for KJ)

Meladiction is only 3% more shadow damage while improved shadowbolt debuff is 20% more shadow damage.
It is much more beneficial to other warlock and shadow priests dps to renew iSB debuff as often as possible.
The easiest way to this is spam shadowbolts as often as possible with high crit ratio as destruction lock.
Affliction warlock does not cast shadowbolts often enough. He focus on recasting his DoTs and SB is only filler.

read my post again.
im talking about a 40 0 21 here, so ofc with ISB and 100% dmg bonus on crits. so the only dot you apply is corruption, basically, then you spam SB, and the time you loose by the corruption GCD is easily equalized by a nightfallproc (instant SB).

Destruction > Affliction as soon as you are hit caped, got decent crit rating and decent spelldmg.
Late T5 should be enough.

i am NOT denying that destruction does more dmg. that topic has been done over and over.
i am addressing raid performance, which i think can still be better in late t5 content or hyjal/BT with 1 (read: ONE) affli lock to improve all shadow dmg.

It's hard to believe for me that the raid benefits (not only dmg but also things like shadow embrace) of affliction don't make up for the solo dmg i loose. but if people say so... never been in SW25, so i must take that point maybe if you had like 6 WLs and 4 SPs, that affliction wl would pay off again

[Dsswoosh]

Using an affliction lock for Sunwell means losing around 1k dps for the extra utility that the affi lock provides.

On the bosses where even 100dps makes a difference (Brutalis, Felmyst and M'uru for example), taking an affliction lock is just gimping the raid (quite sad since affi is fun). You just can't kill these bosses without 100% max dps (M'uru being the prime example).

Whenever i play affi in main tank group, i can never hit more than 1600dps (if im lucky) and tbh this just doesn't meet Sunwell requirements. Bosses enrage (Felmyst and Brut) and just start 1 shooting the whole raid, or healers go OOM (M'uru at phase 2).

Anywhere else where your in an end game raiding guild, it doesn't really matter how you spec tbh, with the whole guild having nice gear, all other bosses are pew pew ez.

[Deleted]

Using an affliction lock for Sunwell means losing around 1k dps for the extra utility that the affi lock provides.

On the bosses where even 100dps makes a difference (Brutalis, Felmyst and M'uru for example), taking an affliction lock is just gimping the raid (quite sad since affi is fun). You just can't kill these bosses without 100% max dps (M'uru being the prime example).

Whenever i play affi in main tank group, i can never hit more than 1600dps (if im lucky) and tbh this just doesn't meet Sunwell requirements. Bosses enrage (Felmyst and Brut) and just start 1 shooting the whole raid, or healers go OOM (M'uru at phase 2).

Anywhere else where your in an end game raiding guild, it doesn't really matter how you spec tbh, with the whole guild having nice gear, all other bosses are pew pew ez.

I think I have to realize it first.... QQ
seems that the 35-40 destro talent (extra spelldmg coeff for SB) is the difference with high end gear. stupid scaling

But still I am relieved that there is room for other specs than 0 21 40, at least until SW25.

I thank you all for the answers.

I CURSE YOU, ENRAGING BOSSES!!! (well, no improved curse, though ^^)

[Dsswoosh]

seems that the 35-40 destro talent (extra spelldmg coeff for SB) is the difference with high end gear. stupid scaling

That's exaclty the reason. Shadow and Flame isn't stupid scaling though. It's shadow mastery in affliction tree. Needs to be tweaked a bit to give some more dps.

It would make affliction viable for a winning PvP spec again, and make affliction acutally useful in end game raiding.

OR

Make spell haste affect dot duration. (why it doesn't already i just dont know)

[Deleted]

That's exaclty the reason. Shadow and Flame isn't stupid scaling though. It's shadow mastery in affliction tree. Needs to be tweaked a bit to give some more dps.

It would make affliction viable for a winning PvP spec again, and make affliction acutally useful in end game raiding.

OR

Make spell haste affect dot duration. (why it doesn't already i just dont know)

how about AND instead of or

yeah you're right shadow mastery is inferior in terms of scaling. and atm spell haste is a huge benefit for the always-casting destros. see lots of them with tht BT ring x2 and other haste items.

[Bakis]

Using an affliction lock for Sunwell means losing around 1k dps for the extra utility that the affi lock provides.

On the bosses where even 100dps makes a difference (Brutalis, Felmyst and M'uru for example), taking an affliction lock is just gimping the raid (quite sad since affi is fun). You just can't kill these bosses without 100% max dps (M'uru being the prime example).

Whenever i play affi in main tank group, i can never hit more than 1600dps (if im lucky) and tbh this just doesn't meet Sunwell requirements. Bosses enrage (Felmyst and Brut) and just start 1 shooting the whole raid, or healers go OOM (M'uru at phase 2).

Anywhere else where your in an end game raiding guild, it doesn't really matter how you spec tbh, with the whole guild having nice gear, all other bosses are pew pew ez.

You are both right and wrong. Bringing an affliction lock brings lots of advantages as raidbuffer, more shadowdamage to other shadowcasters and -5% physical damage on the raid is NOT to be taken lightly.

Bottom line is, affe locks raid buffs rules and he hardly need any heals (if played properly with dark pact and 2 dots (2set t6 bonus) due to lifetap which put of one more stresselement from healers.

Thing is, if you raid does good enough dps for Brutallus for example you can afford to bring a affliction lock.
If that loss of dps, cos he will be as u say lower in dps, matter too much, then take a destro lock.

My affliction lock will basicly just dot enough to support lifetaps and focus on bolts. An affliction lock that go UA spec will still have 70% of his damage done by bolts and a affliction going RUIN even higher %.

If you the affliction lock's total dps along with other that might make up for his lower dps equals up to good enough total dps, then for the love of god always take an affliction cos of his buffs. If you dont have good enough gear, take him/her as destro.

Even tho my affliction lock is in the meelegrp I will still be able to put out 1650 dps with wiz oil/brill wiz oi and a flask of pure deat and spelldamage food.

Affliction locks are underestimated, mainly cos his kinda of raidbuffing doesnt really shine untill Sunwell. BUt a well geared afflictionlock can pump out awesome dps and cntribute with raidbuffs, a destro can never do both

Also my affelock lack (can get better items) some slots still, a ring, 2 trinkets and offhand/wand so my guess is lategame affe locks with real good gear wont have any troubles doing 2000 dps as RUIN at least.

[Battlemaster]

Affliction Warlocks are nice if you are doing ssc/tk/bt/hyjal.
As soon as you enter Sunwell you're gonna need all the dps you can get which destro>affliction sadly.

I was a hardcore affliction warlock all the way up to Brutallus, after that affliction didnt cut it. Had to respecc destro to up my dps.

just curious, how much of a dps increase was it? ever since i was full epics, my lock has been destru, and i haven't brushed up on my ua skills.....so i was wondering from you since you are experienced with affliction