1. #1

    WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    Someone posted on mmo-champion that beacon doesn't scale well with +heals and the best they got was 133-150 HoTs from the 2k overall in the 15 seconds.

    2000/15 = 13.33 ... and honestly, 2k mana at its full rank is a rip.
    Paladin mana regain is still based off Illumination (still 60%) and although this healing does affect every person in the raid (or party), the range is limited to 10 yards. If you're in an AoE situation in a raid and everyone (or a part of the raid) gathers up for this shitty beacon, it can lead to an instant wipe. This spell does allow for multiple beacons, but be in mind that if you cast more than once, you're dishing out 6k+mana and 1 mana potion covers only 1 beacon. I'd really like to see how this spell will also scale with crit and mana regain through illumination since it is a HoT, how will it work out since paladins rely on crit for most of their jobs?

    As far as I know when wotlk comes out, I may not be speccing into full holy (the 51 pointer) because most of the spells are PvP based and depending on the raid setup it's pretty worthless to spec into some talents in that tree with no ret paladin for the crusader strikes...

    I looked through the talent tree for prot and didn't really like some of the things there, pretty pointless points to get kings buff so this is my new spec:

    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxA...uMeoZZxf0xG00h

    I didn't pick up beacon for obvious reasons (mana) and the judgement talents aren't appealing to me since I don't give a shit about haste, I got that covered with haste gems already.

    Ret Tree
    Imp. Might - pve
    Heart of the Crusader -pve
    Imp. Judgements (pvp/farming shit)
    Pursuit of Justice (see above)
    Eye for an Eye (see above)
    Conviction (An additional +5% crit on my spells..I hope I read this right )
    Sheath of Light (basically, this is a crappy version of the Beacon spell, but it relies more on crit and I'll get mana back too! (illumination)... i'll name this spell "Kill two birds with one stone" ---> Additional heals + mana return in 1 spell)

    I'm really in love with this build and I find it pretty good.

    If anyone wants beacon, just spec out of sheath of light, but imo it'll be a lot better than beacon.

    Edit - put in the wrong talent link. now its right.

  2. #2

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzgMzhVuGxRtVGzZx

    spec I'm looking forward to if they reduce the mana cost a bit (of beacon of light) , or even if they don't. Just a small revision on my current spec at 70.

  3. #3

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by hi675
    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzgMzhVuGxRtVGzZx

    spec I'm looking forward to if they reduce the mana cost a bit (of beacon of light) , or even if they don't. Just a small revision on my current spec at 70.
    Imp. conc aura > blessed life.

    While you get that 10% chance to proc that half damage skill, you could have a FoL/HoL up there in half a second to overlook the damage you sustained. Also, with the new priest spell you won't be needing Improved Lay on Hands because their summoned guardian will sacrifice itself if the tank has a chance to die.

  4. #4

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    I'll wait and see how Beacon plays, but it looks to me as if the Ret tree has become overwhelmingly enticing for us holy pallies Sheath of Light for one. Insane, and just further cements the need for crit ratings (over Mp5). My question is for Conviction... does this mean that our healing spells get an EXTRA 5% crit if we put talents into Conviction? Thats like 10% extra spell crit based on talents alone. It means that Holy Shock coupled with Infusion of Light is highly usable. My issue when I heard about Infusion of Light was how expensive Holy Shock is, without a high spell crit rating it could be a bit dangerous for our mana pool.

    Sheath of Light also gives us extra +spell power (thus extra healing) based on Attack Power. Holy Pallies won't have much attack power, but it essentially gives us free spell power based on the small AP we have. With the overall reduction in gear sets, perhaps Holy Pallies will be able to wear gear with both spell power and AP, or just AP and get the AP bonus to healing.

    So many possibilities. My final question is regards to Kings. What will happen to this powerful buff? Will its loss affect the utility of Holy pallies in raids? Then again, it seems plenty do without pallies anyway... We're just now healing machines It seems that placing talents in Ret up to Sheath of Light make pallies even better at single target healing, in an insane way. Can't wait!

  5. #5

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by honors-stud
    Imp. conc aura > blessed life.

    While you get that 10% chance to proc that half damage skill, you could have a FoL/HoL up there in half a second to overlook the damage you sustained. Also, with the new priest spell you won't be needing Improved Lay on Hands because their summoned guardian will sacrifice itself if the tank has a chance to die.
    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=19746

    Normal Conc aura covers the extra 30% not given by Spiritual Focus. Who doesn't know that? Priest guardian only lasts a few seconds by my understanding. Imp LoH still seems very nice.

    Edit: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=47788

    Yes, priest spell only lasts 10 seconds on a 3 minute CD.

  6. #6

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    If you took all your Haste off and got straight up MP5 and +healing or maybe just crit (personaly im thinking 40% crit would make some of our spells EMAZING!), i wonder how that would play out. I will say that the ret talent Sheath of Light seems amazing. I don't know how they can justify that talent so shallow in a talent tree(i think its going to get nerfed very quickly). I don't get why you got Eye for an Eye. I know you just trying to find places to put talents to get Sheath of Light, but it might be better on something else in the ret tree. lol, I think at the very least you used it for PVP!

    ONE THING I WILL SAY ABOUT SHEATH OF LIGHT!

    If current raiding trends continue, I could easily see Beacon being way more powerful on bosses then Sheath of Light (this is based on BT/Sunwell). If you MT heal, I can also see this(sheath of light) talent just being wasted. But yah Beacon would be very situational so WHO KNOWS!!!

  7. #7

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    Yeah well, so was CoH, but all kinds of CoH Priests around these days in BT/Sunwell.

  8. #8

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    Why do you see Sheath of Light being wasted? With Divine Favor its kinda controllable, but seriously if every crit heal then adds some HoT on top of it, its amazing. From healing the MT it is. Combined with the new Holy Shock business. I'm liking it a lot. Just imagine... you crit with Holy Shock, get a small-reasonable HoT. Then you use Divine Favor to get an instant, Holy Light crit... which then adds a huge HoT Yikes! Its not perfectly controllable like the Beacon, but its something nice.

    I don't think Sheath will be nerfed because I think its just enough points into the Ret tree that Holy pallies have to sacrifice the Beacon. Its almost perfectly designed that Holy pallies have to choose. And ret pallies just get an awesome talent that they need! I think it'll stay.

    Btw, whats the cooldown on the Beacon?

  9. #9

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    you all are forgetting that a holy pally will have like 30,000 mana at lvl 80.

    Pre BC good geared healer ~5k mana
    TBC good geared healer ~11k mana
    WOTLK goo geared healer ~25k mana (im guesing more like 40k due to the mana increases exponentially)

  10. #10

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    Im expecting holy pallies to be a thing of the past. Lets be honest, gaining a raid spot is about necessity, so what does a new age holy pally bring to the table? I honestly cant think of a thing. Stand back and bubble people when they pull threat once or twice a boss fight? I haven't seen a single mention of the rediculous costs for max rank flash of light. 420 mana for a ~600 heal. Instantly demoted to the most inefficient heal in the game and it doesn't even get strengthened. If thats a bug or a misprint, someone correct me please. That basically forces you to use the BC rank. I think its safe to call that a nerf. The aoe heal is, as was stated pretty well, a joke in all honesty. The "reactive healing" spell is paltry. 500 health saved at lvl 80? Maybe it has a 300% coeffiecient like earth shield? So basically what I'm reading from all of this is that holy pallies are emergency healers only. HL when the tank takes a big burst and heal melee with the aoe, put hand of salvation on high threat dpsers 3 or 4 times a fight, put a judgement of wisdom or light up...and rest of th etime take a seat.

    Then compare all the above with the new druid. Flourish, Nourish, Living seed, empowered rejuv, all restoration spells working in treeform. It's disgusting.

    Raids need 1 holy pally for utility, 1 resto shaman for the bosses i expect that will 1 shot tanks and require 3 tanks using the 51 talent, 1 disc/holy priest for fort, and the rest druids.
    Honestly, if you dont understand why druids are going to be so rediculous its because you've never healed with one and dont realize the implications of Flourish and Nourish AND living seed. The only weakness druids had in single target healing was burst healing (2s for a relatively weak direct heal or 3s which could never be considreed burst healing..). Nourish fixes all of that. I can already heal up to 3 tanks with spot healing help.

    So, the final quesiton is. Why take a holy pally as anything other than a utility position? What does it offer that a druid, priest or shaman cant deliver better now?

  11. #11

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by sbarro77
    you all are forgetting that a holy pally will have like 30,000 mana at lvl 80.

    Pre BC good geared healer ~5k mana
    TBC good geared healer ~11k mana
    WOTLK goo geared healer ~25k mana (im guesing more like 40k due to the mana increases exponentially)
    in tbc a geared healer has way more than 11k mana.

    try like 18-22k (22k is top ive ever seen)

    11k mana is about what a s2 mage has

  12. #12

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by myarluu
    in tbc a geared healer has way more than 11k mana.

    try like 18-22k (22k is top ive ever seen)

    11k mana is about what a s2 mage has
    18-22K What? Maybe your thinking tank health pools and not healer mana pools Our sunwell priests & druids weigh in @ around the 10K-11K and the pally's & shaman @ about 11K-12K! Think you got your numbers mixed up there bud.


  13. #13

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowfluffer
    Im expecting holy pallies to be a thing of the past. Lets be honest, gaining a raid spot is about necessity, so what does a new age holy pally bring to the table? I honestly cant think of a thing. Stand back and bubble people when they pull threat once or twice a boss fight? I haven't seen a single mention of the rediculous costs for max rank flash of light. 420 mana for a ~600 heal. Instantly demoted to the most inefficient heal in the game and it doesn't even get strengthened.
    All spell coefficients for healers and caster are being changed, due to the combining of +healing & +spl dmg so well see about that.

    on another note ZOMG i love what we are getting for arena.
    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAbxhdGVuMeoZVGzhRh

    -Divine Guardian: OK i bubble and my entire team takes 30% less dmg
    -Imp HoJ: will now bring our stun down to a 20sec CD with pvp set bonus!!
    -Blessed Hands+Stoicism:60% dispell resist on BoP & BoF amazing!
    -Sacred Cleansing:Oh boy no more sitting there dispelling wound poison all day.
    -Infusion Of Light: What an instant HL right after you force a HS crit
    -Unyielding Faith&Pure Of Heart: Very nice Buffs to these talents. Now make them worth getting.

  14. #14

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowfluffer
    Im expecting holy pallies to be a thing of the past. Lets be honest, gaining a raid spot is about necessity, so what does a new age holy pally bring to the table? I honestly cant think of a thing. Stand back and bubble people when they pull threat once or twice a boss fight? I haven't seen a single mention of the rediculous costs for max rank flash of light. 420 mana for a ~600 heal. Instantly demoted to the most inefficient heal in the game and it doesn't even get strengthened. If thats a bug or a misprint, someone correct me please. That basically forces you to use the BC rank. I think its safe to call that a nerf. The aoe heal is, as was stated pretty well, a joke in all honesty. The "reactive healing" spell is paltry. 500 health saved at lvl 80? Maybe it has a 300% coeffiecient like earth shield? So basically what I'm reading from all of this is that holy pallies are emergency healers only. HL when the tank takes a big burst and heal melee with the aoe, put hand of salvation on high threat dpsers 3 or 4 times a fight, put a judgement of wisdom or light up...and rest of th etime take a seat.

    Then compare all the above with the new druid. Flourish, Nourish, Living seed, empowered rejuv, all restoration spells working in treeform. It's disgusting.

    Raids need 1 holy pally for utility, 1 resto shaman for the bosses i expect that will 1 shot tanks and require 3 tanks using the 51 talent, 1 disc/holy priest for fort, and the rest druids.
    Honestly, if you dont understand why druids are going to be so rediculous its because you've never healed with one and dont realize the implications of Flourish and Nourish AND living seed. The only weakness druids had in single target healing was burst healing (2s for a relatively weak direct heal or 3s which could never be considreed burst healing..). Nourish fixes all of that. I can already heal up to 3 tanks with spot healing help.

    So, the final quesiton is. Why take a holy pally as anything other than a utility position? What does it offer that a druid, priest or shaman cant deliver better now?
    Thats such a limited view of the holy pally. Forgetting Beacon, you seem to be treating it like a BC holy pally compared to the druid. I think all the buffs to spell crit for pallies, like holy shock and sheath of light, retain the holy pally as the best single target healer. Gaining a HoT for every healing crit we do it fantastic, especially considering that we will be able to get 30% spell crit easily with talents, more for holy light. Max rank flash of light has been the most efficient healing spell of the game, for most of the time anyway. Its still top 2. I'll give you that druids are ridiculous, and its a bit stupid to be honest. Why would anyone choose another class based on your description.

  15. #15

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    But i'll admit that any more than 2 holy pallies in a raid is wasted. Maybe just 1 in a 10 man. They have always brought utility to the table, which is hella important. They still maintain that, and being a MT healer is nothing to cry about. Every healing class has its specialties. And lets not forget that we're looking at alpha builds right now... by the way you're talking, should expect a druid nerf any time now....

  16. #16

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    And I would also like to bring everyones attention to Sacred Shield:

    http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=53601

    Another reason to bring a holy pally. And another reason they cannot be overlooked as the MT healer. Or even if this doesnt do enough damage reduction for the tank, perhaps on the OT.

  17. #17

    Re: WotLK Holy Paladin Raid Spec

    Quote Originally Posted by myarluu
    in tbc a geared healer has way more than 11k mana.

    try like 18-22k (22k is top ive ever seen)

    11k mana is about what a s2 mage has
    I really doubt this. My paladin is 2/6 if the way in SW and with a flask of distilled wisdom, current can reach 16882 mana. That is with almost every enchant favor intellect over +heal. Gems I'd say are pretty well balance between int/mp5/+heal.

    22k, I just don't see how that would be possible, I'd believe 18k but that would need to be a 6/6 SW raid paladin.



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