[WOTLK] Rogue PvE build

[Karpalo]

Finally I'm actually curious about Hemo PvE again.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0e...bVzZVrfohhRoxo Looks nice to me, Massive AP with all the raid utility of Assassination, AND Blade flurry + DW spec + imp SnD... No need for fancy talents with this +20% damage @ < 35%HP either. Stick to your roots, screw WOTLK talents.

For the flamers: This is a Sword/mace/fist build, not daggers, I took Opportunity only because this would be a 100% PvE based build (gogo Garrote). You can switch some around and create some kind of Pvp/PvE viable build (although not specialised in either).

Hemo builds really havent worked out in TBC that well. It was different in vanilla when you didint have combat potency or when hemo werent normalized.

[philomel]

why does prey on the weak sound good? Its only on your auto attacks (which is somethin like 60% of you damage). If you have say 25% chance to crit then 25% of the time, your auto attacks will do 25% more dmg. Thats 6% more damage (1/4 of 25%) on 60% of your attacks. So .6x.6 is .36% dmg increase for 5 pts. Thats nothing special. Its about the same as lethality, which is a stupid talent as is. Id rather use a mutilate build or a Seal fate/combat swords build. The 50 pt combat talent doesnt look like anything special, but well have to see when its implemented.

If you are correct that you do 6% more damage in white attacks which compose 60% of your total damage then it would be .6x.06=.036 which is 3.6% more overall DPS. If you are doing 1500DPS and you spend the points you will increase to 1554DPS (1500x1.036), an extra 54DPS. Looks pretty damn good to me as it's going to scale so the more DPS you put out the more extra damage you get.

Edit...

It will do even more than this since it will effect your sinister strike / windfury hits as well. The talent says it will increase melee crit damage. It doesn't say anything about special attacks which are inherently melee (correct me if I'm wrong).

So if you do 25% more damage and have a 25% crit chance that would be a damage increase of 6.25%. So take your DPS say 1500 for argument and add on this extra damage you end up with about 1594DPS (1500x1.0625).

I'm no math professor here so if some third party can check this out it would be great.

[Briareos]

Finally I'm actually curious about Hemo PvE again.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0e...bVzZVrfohhRoxo Looks nice to me, Massive AP with all the raid utility of Assassination, AND Blade flurry + DW spec + imp SnD... No need for fancy talents with this +20% damage @ < 35%HP either. Stick to your roots, screw WOTLK talents.

For the flamers: This is a Sword/mace/fist build, not daggers, I took Opportunity only because this would be a 100% PvE based build (gogo Garrote). You can switch some around and create some kind of Pvp/PvE viable build (although not specialised in either).

That's an awful spec. Where's the massive AP? You don't have Sinister Calling. Raid utility of Assassination? If you had 2 points in Improved Exposed Armour then you could call it a raid utility but with a Warriors Sunder Armour, what's the point?

I took Opportunity only because this would be a 100% PvE based build (gogo Garrote)

That's 5 wasted points right there. You're going to Garrote twice, maybe 3 times in a very long fight. That's not justifiable enough to spend 5 points in Opportunity just to improve Garrote.

Just putting nearly any points in Subtlety is wasting valuable talents for PvE talents. Ghostly Strike, Camouflage, Setup, Initiative, Premeditation; all wasted points. This spec will only decrease a raids overall DPS because you won't be able to put out enough.

Subtlety overall is just a PvP tree. Combat has all the damage improvements and energy regeneration a PvE Rogue needs.

[bbr]

Assume you have 10 talent points less to use.
You'd have to choose between relentless strikes and murder spree.

There's not much point to it though, the rogue talents are one of the few that haven't been revised yet. So could end up being completely redone still, much like the warrior fury tree.

[Highlander]

I seriously that spec is viable in ex. a Brutallus fight. But if you have some WWS stats to back it up I'll gladly take a look

When it comes to regular leveling I can't if that spec is any good. I have ALWAYS leveled as Combat.

Did a level in beta as Hemo and it's fairly insane burst damage and very easy to level with.
The only reason I went back to Combat was I like to pull 5-6 mobs at a time and burn them down with Blade Flurry and Murder Spree.

[tubsmccoy]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...21350105030000


the build i was thinking of

[Prandur]

Finally I'm actually curious about Hemo PvE again.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0e...bVzZVrfohhRoxo Looks nice to me, Massive AP with all the raid utility of Assassination, AND Blade flurry + DW spec + imp SnD... No need for fancy talents with this +20% damage @ < 35%HP either. Stick to your roots, screw WOTLK talents.

For the flamers: This is a Sword/mace/fist build, not daggers, I took Opportunity only because this would be a 100% PvE based build (gogo Garrote). You can switch some around and create some kind of Pvp/PvE viable build (although not specialised in either).

Sword spec + weapon expertise >>>> lethality.
Might want to pick up imp EA as well, seeing as 3 of 4 tanking classes don't have sunder,
closest thing you're going to come to bringing real utility to an encounter for a long time.

13/28/30...screw lethality.
Something like this, maybe:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0e...VzxMZVMjoMuRox

Personally, I think I might look at doing something like 45/21/5 mutilate...will see,
Hopefully these pathetic talents won't make it to live.

[Zhira]

My raiding spec in WotLK so far (taking changes in consideration) :

Cold Blood variation
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0e...MIVobVzxMGRVdV

Murder Spree variation
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eboeZMIVbbVzxMGRVdVo

Only thing I know for certain so far is that you REALLY need to get 5/5 Prey on the Weak since about 60% of the rogue PvE damage is white damage.

[Highlander]

Murder Spree variation
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0eboeZMIVbbVzxMGRVdVo

Only thing I would change is to move 1 point from Nerves of Steel into Vile Poisons. But then I'm an Undead Rogue with PvP trinket.

[Zhira]

You could definitely do that - considered that my self Depends on the boss mechanics - will they fear alot? ie.

[Highlander]

You could definitely do that - considered that my self Depends on the boss mechanics - will they fear alot? ie.

1 x Tremor Totem covers the whole raid (almost)?
I'm thinking fear mechanics may not be as annoying to deal with, as they have been.

[El_Vaughn]

If we still have to specc useless filler talents for a combat build I will specc into blade twisting, maybe even two points. After the rework and with all the add chasing we've seen it will become somehow usefull. Also, it's usefull for steady shot.

[1qaz2wsx]

If we still have to specc useless filler talents for a combat build I will specc into blade twisting, maybe even two points. After the rework and with all the add chasing we've seen it will become somehow usefull. Also, it's usefull for steady shot.

Doesn't apply debuff on bosses. Used to do a while ago though.

[El_Vaughn]

yeah I know, but on trash -.-
totally unnecessary, but still more usefull than nerves of steel.

[Skalu]

nerves of steel with %resist repalced by %time reduced will be somehow usefull... well better than nothing.

[Zhira]

I agree that if Tremor Totems is gonna work as intended raidwise, 2/2 Nerves of Steel might not be worth spending points in. In that case I'll place the points in Vile Poisons I guess.

[wowiime]

Before I begin, I should say that I only read through about the first page of builds before getting depressed by people skipping what I consider staple talents, so I just decided to post my own builds instead. Sorry if I've re-posted a build that was already listed.

Also, since I'm out right saying that many of the builds I looked at seem to fail completely, feel free to criticize my builds as well, as it will only improve everyone's understanding of the rogues potential.

*Note all builds are designed for RAID dps, and assume similar quality of gear.

First we'll start with the current top dog, your basic combat swords spec:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...00000000000000

This spec seems to maintain the previous standard of solid sustained dps that its predecessor became known for. This is the most self explanatory of the builds imo.

I remember reading somewhere that blizz was trying to make daggers more viable weapons for rogues, so at first I was immediately thinking they were trying to improve back stab, inspiring the next 2 builds, however looking at the new assassination stuff, Mute may end up being the better choice, depending on how things work out.

This first one is a combat back stab build, which I believe will probably be the most raid viable backstab build:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...00000000000000

The high energy cost of backstab is still a pretty significant drawback. Such a high energy cost drastically reduces the rate of combo point generation, making it difficult to maintain a decent rotation, however, looking at the other classes new talents that involve that nice bit of energy generation, the high energy cost may be offset enough to achieve a decently efficient rotation, which was previously hard to attain for backstab builds. This more efficient rotation along with the added damage from the new stuff may improve the combat backstabber's dps enough to make it raid viable. Theory craft of course.

Now for the fun backstab build. I'm not really sure if this build can actual work out yet...its missing a lot of things that I tend to consider staple for raid dps...but it looks fun to play, so in my little dream world, I'm going to hope it can work.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...21350125031051

Depending on how much +hit ya can get from the higher end gear without sacrificing too much, you could potential ditch some of the points in precision and drop them in ruthlessness and relentless instead, to improve CP and Energy gen.

The two talents that make me feel this build is even possibly viable are Honor Among Thieves, and Slaughter From the Shadows. The historic downfall of Backstab seems to be its heavy energy cost, which basically murders your CP gen. However, if I remember correctly backstab is more damage/energy than sinister. Now, if you tack on Slaughter From the Shadows, Backstabs energy cost is the same as an untalented sinister. A significant improvement, but at the cost of the energy gen talents farther down the combat tree...so, we still have a problem. We end up with "better" CP gen than before...but still lower than what you could get with a standard Combat Swords build. This is where Honor Among Thieves comes in. Depending on what kind of hidden cool downs this talent has, it has the potential to be an AMAZING CP gen talent in the raid environment. 100% chance for a CP when someone in your party crits?...stack a high crit party and your good to go.

All of this, with the added energy gen from other class COULD give this build a chance, and I would love to see the nice little spike from shadow dance, garrote, ambushx3, which you conveniently have enough energy for ^^ However....I'm not planning on holding my breath for this one.

And last, but not least we take a look at a Mute spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?rogu...00000000000000

I feel bad not getting bloodsplatter, so someone find me 2 points I can shove in there.
I rarely use evic or envenom, so I've got no idea which is better, but since evic has been historically terrible, I assumed it would still be pretty bad and ignored it, and figured with the changes to WF, poison on both hands would give me enough procs to use envenom efficiently to keep up Slice and Dice....hopefully....lol

I see many people ignoring Turn the Tables, and I'm very curious as to why. Seems to me like it would be a pretty constant 6% crit to our primary offensive ability?...since most tanks stack avoidance pretty high(and I figure it will still be decently high after they ditch crushing blows in wrath), the buff would proc pretty much constantly.

Another assassination talent I see many people skipping is Focused Attacks. A significant part of what made the combat build so powerful was its high energy generation...They finally give a similar energy get talent to your tree and you skip it? The mute spec has always had incredible CP gen, and now they offer you improved energy gen to go with it and its ignored. Seems like a waste to me.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on a few different raid specs. I look forward to any comments, criticism, or advice that would lead to improved versions of any of these builds, even if it means completely removing some of the builds from viable options.

Have at it ^^