Retribution Paladins actually becoming emergency off tanks?

[Moar Pew Pew]

Just a little something I thought of while considering Paladin spells.

Lets look at a few facts...

- Righteous Fury now has base 90% bonus to Threat generation.
Obviously not important to Prot, but certainly helps Ret tanking.

- Divine Storm Deals instant Holy Damage and healing mitigation.
This provides both scalable threat and mitigation.

- 2 strength = 1 Block Value.
Huge buff to Ret Paladin threat generation. See below.

- Shield of the Righteous is trainable.
SotR deals damage based of block value as Holy Damage. Combine this with the fact that Ret obviously has more strength than Prot, this will provide a large amount of threat. Consider it this way: 1 strength = 1 Holy Damage.

- Sacred Shield is a trainable spell.
This provides mitigation to none tanking specs.

- Ret may have more spell damage than Prot with Sheath of Light, depending how things pan out.
This will help compansate for missing threat generation abilities.



These facts lead me to believe Blizz wants Ret to be an available off tank, even in combat. Yes, they wont have as high mitigation, but Blizz is removing crushing blows. Main tanks will still technically be going past uncrushability with gear, so this actually benefits Ret tanking more.

Anything I missed? Think I'm crazy? Leave a comment.

[Moar Pew Pew]

Just a few things I wanted to add. Plus shamelessly bump my own thread.

- Divine Storm effects up to 4 tartets.
AoE threat coming out the ass.

- Judgements of the Wise will provide extra mana regen.
This helps compansate for no mana reduction for consecration.

[Knighthonor]

I hope this doesnt drive me OOM :-[

[Moar Pew Pew]

Most Ret builds don't support Redoubt or Shield Specialization. However there is a little rumor that Blizzard is thinking about allowing the player to have 2 talent tabs he can swap on the fly to reduce time respecing and the cost of it back and forth all the time.

If goes through, I will with out a doubt throw both those talents into my pve build for Ret.

None of the abilites I listed are Prot talents. The Block Value is for threat generation, mostly. Re read and you'll see. >=) haha

[Esra]

paladins problem was never the aggro generation but the dmg mitgation and tanking casters :

[zox]

Blizz already stated that they want pretty much any warr/pala/dk spec to be able to tank 5mans without any serious problem. (alleviating the LF1M tank last spot daily! spamming for hours on end)

[Moar Pew Pew]

I don't know all that much about Block value generating a large about of threat cause when i played prot i didn't play all that long, but i have been around long enough to know that Holy shield generates a hell of a lot of threat.

If you are saying that Block value does in fact generate some threat you would be crazy not to pick up redoubt and Shield Specialization for your pve ret spec. You won't lose anything in Ret and even if you do most likely will be a pvp talent. This is a wonderful thing imo if it does.

See trainable skill "Shield of the Righteous" The threat generation from block value comes from this spell, it doesnt come from blocking at all, ironicly.

As for speccing Prot for PvE, the Ret tree is far too bloated right now for that.

Also, this is from a Pure Ret point of view. All Wanted Ret talents and in Ret gear. The only differnce is you swap out your two hander for a Sword and Board via macro and Pop Righteous fury, not gimping your dps incase your tank sucks. (Which will be hard in wotlk.)

[Moar Pew Pew]

Blizz already stated that they want pretty much any warr/pala/dk spec to be able to tank 5mans without any serious problem. (alleviating the LF1M tank last spot daily! spamming for hours on end)

I missed this piece of info, apparently. I thought there bandaid fix for LF tank was going to be free spec swapping between two specs.

[Knighthonor]

I still dont see the Damage reduction for Ret to Tank. My Ret Spec cant even reach Imp-Righteous Fury.

[Moar Pew Pew]

I still dont see the Damage reduction for Ret to Tank. My Ret Spec cant even reach Imp-Righteous Fury.

Yeah, its emergency in case your tank dies lol. Pretty much the only mitigation you have is Sacred Shield and Divine Storm. I'm just saying this will add reasons to have a Ret Pally in your heroic, along with our awesome fire and forget CC. Even in raiding you might get some short term use out of a Ret tank.

[Moar Pew Pew]

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAbxhdhVuMeZZVf0xG00h looks fine for me if you are just raiding.

I still think this is a good idea and to prevent trolling another topic where i posted it ill post it here.

Shield of the Righteous- Slam the target with your shield, causing Holy damage equal to 200% of your block value. This spell causes a high amount of threat.
Instant cast, 5 yd range, 6 sec cooldown

If this had an interruption effect it would be so awesome for all paladins. However it won't cause Warriors pummel and rogues kick got nerfed and no longer do damage. However Warriors have Spell reflex and paladins don't and Shield bash still interrupts the target's cast locking them down from that school of magic.

Here's an idea. Why not add a Interrupt on to Shield of the Righteous and for 6 seconds any spells cast at the paladin are reflected back to the target, cause lets face it 500 damage abortion to all damage every 6 secs with    Sacred Shield  to a not prot spec paladin is junk. Good for off tanking for ret paladins and it would help out holy paladins with lol cyclone/fear, hell anything that would stop them from doing their job in arena or pvp as a support healer.

God we all know Prot paladins could use this idea for pvp as well when fighting casters.

This also taken from the same thread. I want to commit on it but i believe this is a better place to talk about it and to prevent from trolling another persons topic.

Hamer of injustice or resist as we like to call it is not a viable interrupt. It's a great pvp crowd control feature that also ups a Ret paladins damage however there are no side effects applied to the target other then what a Ret paladin can do to a stun target. Shield Bash not only does damage it generates threat and puts that 1 school of magic the players is using on a cooldown. Shield Bash is an awesome warrior abilities that paladins should also have for many reason that i have mentioned.  The reason i went with spell reflect in the first place is it is sort of protection in nature. While writing this post and going over your point about the Death Knight and the Warrior it comes to mind that no matter what Paladins are going to step on someones toes. It's not a bad thing at all imo. We are have been stepping on priest,rogues,Warrior and shamans toes for a long time what's 1 more class? There is a shortage on tanks in  the Great World of Warcraft on quite a few servers. Executus being one of them that i am on. I even tanked quite a few 5 mans in TBC myself leveling up my paladins as prot and this is what i found.

As Hoj isn't all that reliable, most of the casters being immuned to the effect of the spell and i end up wasting main finding that out.

As Holy, I run around all day long Pillar humping  in arena being in fear of being cycloned sheeped you name it i fear it as holy in arena because i really don't have a way to combat it if Hoj resisted meaning i have to blow a trinket or my bubble. It really leaves me out of options.

As Ret I whack on healers all day long because rogues are on warlocks warriors are killing priests, shamans and rogues where i am on that life sucking C!@# of a Resto Druid, Holy paladin or Healing shaman whacking on them all day long.

As Ret you have a very small window to kill a Resto Druid, Holy Paladin or Healing Shaman with a stun AW Crusader Strike JOC kill. As a Blood Elf i have a back up if needed it help some what but even if it still can be resisted. For Alliance Paladins they don't get a second wind of hope at all as i found out my first time around with the Paladin. You are pretty much healed to death if you don't do enough damage with in that time.

In the end i think this idea would greatly help Paladins in pve and pvp with all three specs and will close that final gap that all spec paladins are facing.

Dude, didn't even read the post. Are you actually on Executus? Same. lol
Crazy world.

Edit:

I actually did read the post now, and you bring up some good points. I may be ok with stealing Shield Bash, but I cant justify Spell Reflect. Also, almost every talent to increase stun resistance is being changed to reducing stun time. This should help.

[Knighthonor]

Also does Sacred Shield scale in anyway?

[Moar Pew Pew]

Also does Sacred Shield scale in anyway?

Good question. I havent heard anything about it personally.

[Moar Pew Pew]

lol Sargaz haha. Well the only reason i mentioned Spell reflect was the lock out on that one school of magic for 6s seemed to be a op since we have Hoj that is 6 seconds already. To be truthful i liked your idea better with the Spell Block it's more paladinish. We are Holy Warriors after all are we not ?

I would feel a lot better about Spell Block since Paladins got here first, so Death Knights can die for all I care. Of course, they would just come back as Ghouls so that wouldnt really work...

Here are some changes I would like to see.

Shield Specialization. (Replacing Redoubt location)
Increases Block Value by 10/20/30%

This would give a nice little buff to Board of the Righteous, while giving us essentially the same effect as before.

Spell Block
Requires 3 points in Shield Specialization.
You have a chance equal to your block chance to reduce the damage of spells by 10/20/30% of your block value.

There, we fixed those tiers. I think they should also make the 6% damage reduction on Righteous Fury a base effect and eliminate the talent. These changes would provide us with 5 more talents and something useful. Fixing the bloated Prot tree slightly and making Redoubt useful.

[Knighthonor]

I have this spec planed
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...13532105231351

[Moar Pew Pew]

I have this spec planed
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...13532105231351

Lets try not to turn this into a spec posting thread lol. But is this a pve or pvp build?

[Knighthonor]

Lets try not to turn this into a spec posting thread lol. But is this a pve or pvp build?

Ret tanking build

[Moar Pew Pew]

Ret tanking build

Then why do you have Stoicism?

Anyway, the point of this thread was not that you could make a Ret tank build, but that Ret dps specs may be capable of tanking.

[Knighthonor]

Then why do you have Stoicism?

Anyway, the point of this thread was not that you could make a Ret tank build, but that Ret dps specs may be capable of tanking.

30% Dispell Resist and 60% Seal Dispel Resist

[Moar Pew Pew]

30% Dispell Resist and 60% Seal Dispel Resist

You are tanking. Why would you need dispell resist on anything? Although you do need Sanctified Seals for the crit.