Back-handed buffs - shaman

[Shjade]

And pallies have plate, bubble, 1 true stun and 1 incapacitate, and are more viable in 2's, 3's and 5's in some form than shaman are...especially enhancement...across all 4 seasons.

...none of which matters for raid dps contribution or buffing, which is what most of the thread has been about.

[Brandt]

but wheres nerf to other sources of damage? winters chill = 10% more dmg to fire and arcane, imp. scorch = 10% more frost and arcane damage, -5% lower fire damage, i dont see any nerfing of arcane or frost coeficients there, do u? we got 6% from moonkin and 10% from CoE and we got nerf to coef, moonkins got 6% arcane from moonkin 10% from frostmage and 10% from firemage and didnt get any coef nerf, i just dont see, how can that be fair, our LB doesnt scale well with 2,5s base and we get least bonuses from all caster debuffs, so please, enlighten me, how is it fair, if atleast winters chill would affect nature, i wouldnt say a word

and dont forget one thing...
u wont have CoE/similar in PvP/5mans/grinding, so we wont hit harder there, comapred to other casters

god, are u really that stupid?

You cannot compare shamans with mages och warlocks in that mather. Why? Because shamans can, in resto form, crit lightning bolts for 4-5k damage. IN resto specc. Mages and warlocks are and will always be damage dealers, its the only thing they can do, and they HAVE to have more bonuses then a cocktail class like a shaman. A shaman in resto specc arent supposed to do as much damage as an elemental. And thats what they've done. A shaman is what they always called "Jack of all traids". Sure we cant tank but we can out DPS rogues, mages and warlocks. Thats broken! How can we, a class that can choose what to do be better then the classes that dosent have a choise?
Tho I can agree that the resto tree needs so fixing up, but blizzard are working thier ass off to fix things and to test things.

And on the buff discussion. Who cares? You cant compare classes like that, its like whining over that rogues dosent have any buffs when paladins have. A shamans job was pre-tbc and in tbc to buff thier group. Not the raid, but thier group. Or, no, not buff them, because shamans dosent have any buffs really, they have totems. And like blizzard said a thousand times already, totems aren't supposed to be compared with, lets say paladins blessings.
Yes BoM gives more AP, but Goa gives AP dodge and crit (for rogues and hunters) and SOE gives AP and Block. Stats are IMO better in some cases then pure AP. And now when totems are raidwide... lololololol is the only thing I can say.

Tho when we are at it, why not give shamans windwalk, blink, plate, safe fall, stealth, and just remove all other classes?

[Gomexus]

...none of which matters for raid dps contribution or buffing, which is what most of the thread has been about.

It was in response to someone saying ret pallies have had it as bad as shamans. So yes, off-topic, but it was a response :P

[Sarevokcz]

does no one else look at all the patch changes? its rare that i log in to post on an obvious QQ i cant read post but there seems to be alot of you with the same problem so ima set you straight...
First, L2read.. http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?spell=48513

that stacked to the full 3 times gives you 6% more nature dmg, which is being adding to your already gain in COE, which you did not have before, you are gaining 16% more nature dmg that you did not have before, if you say, but what if there is no moonkin, i say, a 25 man raid should need 1 to be successful as well as 1 elemental sham, 1 shadow priest, 1 enhance sham, 1 ret pally, and 1 feral dps druid.. there are more obviously, but lets focus on the "DPS hybrids". i could prolly add dps war to this list.. anyway.

what you gain from those classes is not only dps, like you would a mage/lock/rogue/hunter you would gain valueable buffs to your whole raid, buffs mind you, that are imperative to the compleation of a good raid, while im sure bringing 10 mages and 5 rogues could kill bosses, it would be more difficult, hypothetically. Every class is loosing hit, from our talents being nerfed, because of this we Need that totem of wrath, raid wide buff. and not to mention the other amazing totems and buffs you give the raid. also, with the nerf to potions in lich king we will only be getting 1 mana pot per boss fight, thats kinda huge, imo. so your mana regen and the regen of so many other classes is going to be NEEDED.

so QQ all you want that you cant hit 2.4k dps, i cant, im a shadow preist, and our scaling is Much worse than yours. but you know what i dont care, i understand that my role is as a Hybrid dps, to dps and buff the others around me, be it 5% more spell dmg to the raid, 10% more shadow dmg to locks, and mana regen. its not my place to top dps cause then you wouldnt see any mages or locks or hunters, if DPS hybrids could do the same dmg as a regular dps, And buff each other at the same time, you wouldnt have regular dps.

im a shadow priest, 1261 spell dmg, 116 spell haste, 2/8 t6 and i can get to 1300 dps fully buffed. i love elem shammy and i know i will see more of you in lich king, fact is tho, Atm, with only 1000 spell dmg and no haste, you can get to the same dps, as well as drop those totems for you and give us another BL, thats kinda op, and i love it

lots and lots of trash tbh, yes, we got 16% increased dmg to nature, arcane got 10% dmg + 10% crit + 6% from moonkin, and still no nerf to their scaling whatsoever. forst got 10% damage also, fire 10% crit (along with -5% dmg)

ofc i wouldnt care that much about my personal DPS, but then i would have to provide great buffs like shadowpriests or enhashamans do, sorry, 6% dmaage and 3% crit is worse than untalented CoE, 6% critdamage is fine, however not even close to UR, -6%mana is fine also, but again, its not even remotely close to other classes(on 70 lev, for example, for me, its like 16,5 mp2 = whoopie doopie 40 mp5, not even scaleable with better gear), which got talented much more powerfull manaregens for raid, so i am SO SORRY, that my buffs are lackluster and i want to be atleast abit competitive in personal DPS. LB coef nerf wasnt really needed at all

[Sarevokcz]

You cannot compare shamans with mages och warlocks in that mather. Why? Because shamans can, in resto form, crit lightning bolts for 4-5k damage. IN resto specc. Mages and warlocks are and will always be damage dealers, its the only thing they can do, and they HAVE to have more bonuses then a cocktail class like a shaman. A shaman in resto specc arent supposed to do as much damage as an elemental. And thats what they've done. A shaman is what they always called "Jack of all traids". Sure we cant tank but we can out DPS rogues, mages and warlocks. Thats broken! How can we, a class that can choose what to do be better then the classes that dosent have a choise?
Tho I can agree that the resto tree needs so fixing up, but blizzard are working thier ass off to fix things and to test things.

And on the buff discussion. Who cares? You cant compare classes like that, its like whining over that rogues dosent have any buffs when paladins have. A shamans job was pre-tbc and in tbc to buff thier group. Not the raid, but thier group. Or, no, not buff them, because shamans dosent have any buffs really, they have totems. And like blizzard said a thousand times already, totems aren't supposed to be compared with, lets say paladins blessings.
Yes BoM gives more AP, but Goa gives AP dodge and crit (for rogues and hunters) and SOE gives AP and Block. Stats are IMO better in some cases then pure AP. And now when totems are raidwide... lololololol is the only thing I can say.

Tho when we are at it, why not give shamans windwalk, blink, plate, safe fall, stealth, and just remove all other classes?

restoshammys critting for 4,5k? well, then they have to be atleast 21 in ele for 2x crit dmg (which means giving up Spirit Link, or nowadays Earth Shield + quite few important talents also), and even then their cast would be 2,5s, atleast restoshammy would be finally offensive hybrid, is he is meant to be, also not having any of the top tier talents neither from resto or ele

[Brandt]

restoshammys critting for 4,5k? well, then they have to be atleast 21 in ele for 2x crit dmg (which means giving up Spirit Link, or nowadays Earth Shield + quite few important talents also), and even then their cast would be 2,5s, atleast restoshammy would be finally offensive hybrid, is he is meant to be, also not having any of the top tier talents neither from resto or ele

Offensive hybrids? No they aren't supposed to be offensive hybrids. They are supposed to be just hybrids, to have choices of what you want to play. If you go resto then you are a healer, enhance melee, ele caster. Not restoration caster DPS. If that was the case then paladins should have crusaderstrike or seal of command with thier holy spec.
Both paladins and shamans are as everyone know by now hybrids. Tho they are not the same kind. Blizzard said at the release of wow that shamans would be magical hybrids with a lots of different spells and stuff, and paladins more to the melee side. But that dosent mean that they are supposed to do everything at the same time. Shamans and paladins dont need nerfs och buffs, they need tweaks to fit in good in raids AND 5 man groups. But I belive everyone will agree when I say that you wouldn't want to loose one to the other. You want both due to all the bonuses you get, and thats the thing with the classes. They benifit the groups. Every shaman should be proud to be a part of something bigger. How much DPS would a raid loose if they got rid of the paladins, shamans, or druids?

[anyaka21]

pre-bc we could be called offensive hybrids. However, since then, we are a very very specialized class. We give up our ability to heal effectively by going elemental or enhance. And it is exactly why the shaman class as a whole has struggled in BC. Resto has been for the most part fine because CH scales incredibly well, and heals across party lines.

Will this change in LK? With the new changes...maybe. But as it stands right now, there's is a ton of work to be done and unlike when BC came out, I doubt much of the shaman community will give Blizzard a pass. There are other games out there or coming out. Hell, by the time LK comes out, maybe AoC will have finally fixed there released beta and it will be a playable fun game, and the same will probably hold true for Warhammer.

[Sarevokcz]

Offensive hybrids? No they aren't supposed to be offensive hybrids. They are supposed to be just hybrids, to have choices of what you want to play. If you go resto then you are a healer, enhance melee, ele caster. Not restoration caster DPS. If that was the case then paladins should have crusaderstrike or seal of command with thier holy spec.
Both paladins and shamans are as everyone know by now hybrids. Tho they are not the same kind. Blizzard said at the release of wow that shamans would be magical hybrids with a lots of different spells and stuff, and paladins more to the melee side. But that dosent mean that they are supposed to do everything at the same time. Shamans and paladins dont need nerfs och buffs, they need tweaks to fit in good in raids AND 5 man groups. But I belive everyone will agree when I say that you wouldn't want to loose one to the other. You want both due to all the bonuses you get, and thats the thing with the classes. They benifit the groups. Every shaman should be proud to be a part of something bigger. How much DPS would a raid loose if they got rid of the paladins, shamans, or druids?

if i make offensive resto/ele hybrid build, i will be offensive hybrid, but i wouldnt make it 21/50, id go rather 30/41 with shorter bolts, both ways are sacrificing quite abit of usefull talents. it wont be PvE specc, its just not effective, but for PvP? why not? its not like restoshammys are best healers in arenas, without "oh shit" abilites and hots they wont be, so how about little nuking power? pvp equiped restoshammy wont have much crit anyway so its not really that restoshammy is critting 5k in pvp, hell, as ele i have hard times getting crit over 2.5k on full resi targets.

paladin can also make holy/ret hybrid, and he can get SoC, but comparing crusader strike with elemental fury? if it worries you so much, make a thread on blizz forums to move EF deeper, i dont have a problem with that( tho enhashammies might ) if we got something, what wouldnt make resto/ele hybrid "invincible man" in your eyes, but would fit into the ele tree, why not.

[Brandt]

if i make offensive resto/ele hybrid build, i will be offensive hybrid, but i wouldnt make it 21/50, id go rather 30/41 with shorter bolts, both ways are sacrificing quite abit of usefull talents. it wont be PvE specc, its just not effective, but for PvP? why not? its not like restoshammys are best healers in arenas, without "oh shit" abilites and hots they wont be, so how about little nuking power? pvp equiped restoshammy wont have much crit anyway so its not really that restoshammy is critting 5k in pvp, hell, as ele i have hard times getting crit over 2.5k on full resi targets.

paladin can also make holy/ret hybrid, and he can get SoC, but comparing crusader strike with elemental fury? if it worries you so much, make a thread on blizz forums to move EF deeper, i dont have a problem with that( tho enhashammies might ) if we got something, what wouldnt make resto/ele hybrid "invincible man" in your eyes, but would fit into the ele tree, why not.

I think shamans are fine as they are, we have many choices and we are good at the coices we can get. And sure you can get those kind of speccs... and totally gimp your self. Just like anyaka wrote, we are a very spcialized class now days. Tho I dont think its just the shamans who will try new games. Most probably players who are bored with wow.

[Scalptus]

You've obviously not been playing this game for 3+ years or you're just too simple minded to understand it yet...Or...maybe you just havent read the patch notes yet

people alrdy NEED shamans

elemental does Massive dps, good buffs (now raidwide)

enhancement does good dps, MASSIVE BUFFS (now raidwide)

Resto are the BEST AOE HEALERS IN THE GAME - Chainheal is insanely overpowered, a shaman in t4 can outheal any other class in t6, (except ofc MAYBE a COH priest on a direct - stacking AOE fight (like Reliquary of Souls))

Technically you dont "NEED" any class

Stop crying because we dont get a god spell, Heres an idea every1, to make all the losers STFU lets combine every wrath spell into our 51 point talent

"The End to all QQing spell" 100% intellect is converted into attack power and each hit has a chance to release a lightning shield charge, in addition you get 3 more lightning shield charges. In further addition every critical strike reduces your next cast time by 20%, stacks up to 5 times. Also you summon 2 spirit wolves, each with a charge, stun, intercept, interupt, and silence affect. Oh dont forget, your stormstrike has 2 extra charges now since lightning bolt damage is getting nerfed but dont worry, its a 8 second cooldown now. Wait one last thing, remember those spirit wolves i mentioned in this extremely long spell description? Yea. Those things are immune to Any existing crowd control in the game. Also you get to turn anything u want into a frog that can be attacked without breaking it for 8 seconds, it wont attack anything, but its a 1 min cooldown. Have fun!

costs 100% of base mana, Endless duration, undispellable and persists through death

yea lol, our spells are good, l2p plz

[Gomexus]

You've obviously not been playing this game for 3+ years or you're just too simple minded to understand it yet...Or...maybe you just havent read the patch notes yet

people alrdy NEED shamans

elemental does Massive dps, good buffs (now raidwide)

enhancement does good dps, MASSIVE BUFFS (now raidwide)

Resto are the BEST AOE HEALERS IN THE GAME - Chainheal is insanely overpowered, a shaman in t4 can outheal any other class in t6, (except ofc MAYBE a COH priest on a direct - stacking AOE fight (like Reliquary of Souls))

Technically you dont "NEED" any class

Stop crying because we dont get a god spell, Heres an idea every1, to make all the losers STFU lets combine every wrath spell into our 51 point talent

"The End to all QQing spell" 100% intellect is converted into attack power and each hit has a chance to release a lightning shield charge, in addition you get 3 more lightning shield charges. In further addition every critical strike reduces your next cast time by 20%, stacks up to 5 times. Also you summon 2 spirit wolves, each with a charge, stun, intercept, interupt, and silence affect. Oh dont forget, your stormstrike has 2 extra charges now since lightning bolt damage is getting nerfed but dont worry, its a 8 second cooldown now. Wait one last thing, remember those spirit wolves i mentioned in this extremely long spell description? Yea. Those things are immune to Any existing crowd control in the game. Also you get to turn anything u want into a frog that can be attacked without breaking it for 8 seconds, it wont attack anything, but its a 1 min cooldown. Have fun!

costs 100% of base mana, Endless duration, undispellable and persists through death

yea lol, our spells are good, l2p plz

We won't be that needed in wotlk. Our buffs being raid wide will limit our usefulness. Every other class getting a raid heal will limit our usefulness as CH spammers. Our wolves are going to suck, trust me. Elemental's dps takes a sharp downward turn after T5. Enhancement's dps is extremely good and helps keep them in demand for PvE through wotlk.

Wolves will not be immune to knockback effects...have none of the abilities you mentioned (since they are NYI) and Static shield is in the worst possible position to make it an option in PvP or PvE without gimping something more important.

Our trees are screwed up...quit acting like we are fine when apparently you have no clue. It's people like you that are in the beta right now and are not giving the dev's any useful feedback, because you don't know how to seriously analyze the problems with the class.

No one wants to be the unstoppable machine of destruction. We want decent abilities that make our class enjoyable and fun. We want a fair chance in PvP with a decent amount of representation in high end ratings.

Someone said that Blizzard does not listen to Shaman because we are the least played class. If we had a 4 sec mace stun proc and a MS ability I guarantee our numbers would skyrocket...would they listen to us then, or just nerf us back to where we are now?

[MortuariusBC]

We won't be that needed in wotlk. Our buffs being raid wide will limit our usefulness. Every other class getting a raid heal will limit our usefulness as CH spammers. Our wolves are going to suck, trust me. Elemental's dps takes a sharp downward turn after T5. Enhancement's dps is extremely good and helps keep them in demand for PvE through wotlk.

Wolves will not be immune to knockback effects...have none of the abilities you mentioned (since they are NYI) and Static shield is in the worst possible position to make it an option in PvP or PvE without gimping something more important.

Our trees are screwed up...quit acting like we are fine when apparently you have no clue. It's people like you that are in the beta right now and are not giving the dev's any useful feedback, because you don't know how to seriously analyze the problems with the class.

No one wants to be the unstoppable machine of destruction. We want decent abilities that make our class enjoyable and fun. We want a fair chance in PvP with a decent amount of representation in high end ratings.

Someone said that Blizzard does not listen to Shaman because we are the least played class. If we had a 4 sec mace stun proc and a MS ability I guarantee our numbers would skyrocket...would they listen to us then, or just nerf us back to where we are now?

not that im completely agreeing or disagreeing with you but a couple things that have changed in wotlk are in our favor

hit/crit rating are now melee and spell combined... this makes synergy with enhance/elemental much for effective instead blowing a bunch of points in resto to get 3% more hit we can go into elemental for more crit, more damage, mana cost reductions

we dont know how well tanks will hold threat with the new mechanics so im holding off on my opinion on maelstrom (plus its still buggy)

but all in all you cant act like we completely got the shaft

[Gomexus]

not that im completely agreeing or disagreeing with you but a couple things that have changed in wotlk are in our favor

hit/crit rating are now melee and spell combined... this makes synergy with enhance/elemental much for effective instead blowing a bunch of points in resto to get 3% more hit we can go into elemental for more crit, more damage, mana cost reductions

we dont know how well tanks will hold threat with the new mechanics so im holding off on my opinion on maelstrom (plus its still buggy)

but all in all you cant act like we completely got the shaft

The problem with going into elemental, hit being combined with spells and melee, and losing that 3% talent all amounts to spending more item points on +hit gear which means less on crit/AP. We will still do very good, I am sure of it.

I am very happy with the changes to our class and am really looking forward to seeing them first hand. My biggest problem is that our changes are nothing compared to what every other class is getting. We got 2 new baseline Elemental spells with Hex and Lava Burst. So far our Enhancement and Resto trees have not been given any new baseline abilities. So we finally get a CC that has been needed since day 1 in some form or fashion...and it comes at a time when dungeons will require less CC than ever (due to war's pal's DK's and druid's all being able to AE tank) and be shorter in duration. Our new Lava Burst spell comes after years of complaining that every spell we have is in the same school (except totems and frost/flame shock).

We got a patch job.

We are getting the spells/talents we should have got in BC, if not before. Look at some of the other classes and look at how much their skills/talents are changing...then look at what they are changing to.

Despite all of that I am *still* looking forward to the xpac. I love this class and I love enhancement spec. I will keep playing it and endure any amount of punishment for doing so...but that doesn't mean I won't bitch and whine about it :P

[Scalptus]

@ gomexus

obviously your the one who doesnt have a clue

look how Burning Crusade is, can you honestly say Any1 got the complete shaft, do you really go to a raid and everytime you do nomatter WHAT the raid leader will say, No, Nope, sorry we dont need you, at all? maybe if they dont need a shadowpriest for their raid comp, or resto shamans for certain fights since single target healing sucks for them

do you think you know more than game devs that have made one of the most popular games ever

come back when you make 10 billion dollars off a game u made kk :P

Quote: Someone said that Blizzard does not listen to Shaman because we are the least played class. If we had a 4 sec mace stun proc and a MS ability I guarantee our numbers would skyrocket...would they listen to us then, or just nerf us back to where we are now?

hmmm 4 second stun mace proc? so your saying stuns help on raid dps
Mortal strike? last time i checked MS sucks ass for pve

if your talking about pvp, our talents are amazing for pvp, especially the wolves if you've even bothered to read their talents yet. and btw, Static shock is most DEFINATELY NOT useless, right now i believe lightning shield does ~700 dmg (havent used it in awhile, in wrath itll probably do around 1500, with SS changes thats about 1700) 700 damage chance on hit, its ok comparing to what? a measely 50 mp5? mp5 helps dps? we wont need the mana, everything is raid wide, from resto shamans MANATIDE TOTEM THAT WILL AFFECT THE WHOLE RAID, to shadowpriests mana battery skills

wait till beta to stop the QQing, that doesnt go just for you, that goes for every1. I honestly just cant believe the amount of QQ going on from a game that isnt even out. Do some theory crafting and youll find out what position we really are in, from an instant cast every 6 seconds if you're good, to a constant never ending 10% crit chance

[Gomexus]

@ gomexus

obviously your the one who doesnt have a clue

1) look how Burning Crusade is, can you honestly say Any1 got the complete shaft, do you really go to a raid and everytime you do nomatter WHAT the raid leader will say, No, Nope, sorry we dont need you, at all? maybe if they dont need a shadowpriest for their raid comp, or resto shamans for certain fights since single target healing sucks for them

2) do you think you know more than game devs that have made one of the most popular games ever

3) come back when you make 10 billion dollars off a game u made kk :P

4) Quote: Someone said that Blizzard does not listen to Shaman because we are the least played class. If we had a 4 sec mace stun proc and a MS ability I guarantee our numbers would skyrocket...would they listen to us then, or just nerf us back to where we are now?

hmmm 4 second stun mace proc? so your saying stuns help on raid dps
Mortal strike? last time i checked MS sucks ass for pve

5) if your talking about pvp, our talents are amazing for pvp, especially the wolves if you've even bothered to read their talents yet. and btw, Static shock is most DEFINATELY NOT useless, right now i believe lightning shield does ~700 dmg (havent used it in awhile, in wrath itll probably do around 1500, with SS changes thats about 1700) 700 damage chance on hit, its ok comparing to what? a measely 50 mp5? mp5 helps dps? we wont need the mana, everything is raid wide, from resto shamans MANATIDE TOTEM THAT WILL AFFECT THE WHOLE RAID, to shadowpriests mana battery skills

6) wait till beta to stop the QQing, that doesnt go just for you, that goes for every1. I honestly just cant believe the amount of QQ going on from a game that isnt even out. Do some theory crafting and youll find out what position we really are in, from an instant cast every 6 seconds if you're good, to a constant never ending 10% crit chance

This is the last time I am going to try to help you understand exactly how much "reading a thread before posting" can benefit how other people view you. At the moment I have to assume you have read the whole thread and therefore I am forced to come to the conclusion that you have no idea what you are talking about.

1) Yes we got the shaft in BC. We are forced into 1 spec 90% of the time for raids, and only because of one spell that was not even new in BC. Besides raids...ya know...the other 90% of the game...we really got the shaft. If you are elemental or enhancement you either group with friends or you don't get groups. In PvP we are the least represented most underpowered class across all three specs in all brackets, we have 1 good spec in 1 bracket, that's it.

2) No, but I think they are either not paying attention or don't care.

3) I wish I could make money from game-design...give me some start up money and let's do it!

4) Yes MS and Mace stun suck for PvE...but if we had those two added to what we already have don't you think we'd be a lil overpowered in arena...and in pvp in general? If we are overpowered in pvp...and very good in pve...wouldn't our numbers go up? Right now we're horrible in PvP and decent in PvE. With PvP gear being vastly superior to most raid loot up to T5-6 alot of people will do PvP instead of grinding away hours and hours in T4 content...it sucks to do pvp as a shaman anyway so why not do it as a druid...war...rogue...lock? Don't bring up hit rating..I know how the game works and hit can be made up by other pieces of gear and not weps/5pc.

5) Our PvP talents are non-existant atm, especially for enhance. Our wolves are NYI and we can only hope that Koraa makes good on her promises and they have a stun/snare. Static Shield sucks because of it's placement in the tree not what it does. Show me a decent build that you are able to get static shield for PvE and not sacrifice something much better/higher dps to get it. Furthermore, have you realized the impact Maelstrom Weapons will have on our mana pool? Water Shield will be used 90% of the fight to maintain highest dps. Oh, and lightning shield does around 350-400 for me...unless you meant the 3 charge total. Mana-tide totem will affect everyone in 30 yards..not everyone in the raid so chances are slim that you being enhance will see much mana-return from it, but that is dependant on alot of factors. Our mana will be an issue...read the beta forums if you don't want to take my word for it.

6) Beta is the time when QQ is supposed to be given. If our less than helpful beta testers have the same logic you do then we will all be screwed. I understand the 9% (not 10%) constant crit chance buff...I understand the leaps and bounds our dps will go up. What I do not understand is how you think the changes we are seeing are anywhere near as useful as what other classes are getting. I guarantee no matter how much our dps goes up...we will still be behind locks/mages/rogues/hunters...cus that's how it's supposed to be. Resto will not be the king ding-a-ling raid healer anymore because everyone will have raid heals available through talents or base skills. Elemental will remain about as needed as they are now...1 per raid 2 if your missing a mage/lock and just need a ranged dps.

Read threads, play your class in all aspects, then post.

[MortuariusBC]

The problem with going into elemental, hit being combined with spells and melee, and losing that 3% talent all amounts to spending more item points on +hit gear which means less on crit/AP. We will still do very good, I am sure of it.

I am very happy with the changes to our class and am really looking forward to seeing them first hand. My biggest problem is that our changes are nothing compared to what every other class is getting. We got 2 new baseline Elemental spells with Hex and Lava Burst. So far our Enhancement and Resto trees have not been given any new baseline abilities. So we finally get a CC that has been needed since day 1 in some form or fashion...and it comes at a time when dungeons will require less CC than ever (due to war's pal's DK's and druid's all being able to AE tank) and be shorter in duration. Our new Lava Burst spell comes after years of complaining that every spell we have is in the same school (except totems and frost/flame shock).

We got a patch job.

We are getting the spells/talents we should have got in BC, if not before. Look at some of the other classes and look at how much their skills/talents are changing...then look at what they are changing to.

Despite all of that I am *still* looking forward to the xpac. I love this class and I love enhancement spec. I will keep playing it and endure any amount of punishment for doing so...but that doesn't mean I won't bitch and whine about it :P

how bout that lock 51 pt demo...woot a big beastly looking cooldown... which negates 95% of the talents we spend to get there when we use it

affliction still not gonna scale because it offers too much utility (5% phy dam reduction and 3% additional spell damage) can you think of any other class that can outdps affliction locks and still offer more utility? i can think of plenty


we all hope blizzard has more changes coming... we should see a pretty big change by the end of the week as level 80 is being tested

just sit back and hope iguess

[Scalptus]

1 spec? t4 resto shams get taken into t6 guilds and carried / enh shaman can have blues but still be worth 1500 dps, if he does 500 dps
as for eles, their just not that popular overall, just cuz not many play them.

but w/e, gl with ur post

[anyaka21]

not that im completely agreeing or disagreeing with you but a couple things that have changed in wotlk are in our favor

hit/crit rating are now melee and spell combined... this makes synergy with enhance/elemental much for effective instead blowing a bunch of points in resto to get 3% more hit we can go into elemental for more crit, more damage, mana cost reductions

we dont know how well tanks will hold threat with the new mechanics so im holding off on my opinion on maelstrom (plus its still buggy)

but all in all you cant act like we completely got the shaft

The problem with this statement is that it doesn't work in reverse. It's amazing for enhance because the +hit will scale with their melee and spells. However, for elementals who do not melee, it's going to cause problems. Based on what I've seen from itemization so far, there seems to be a fair amount of melee gear with +hit on it, however not a lot of spell damage gear with +hit.

And yeah, it's beta, but as others have said, now is the time to QQ, to input our ideas and insights into what can be changed for the better.

If no one said anything, then Blizzard would say, shamans are fine. Nothing to see here. An honest look at the class, the new trees, and what other classes/trees are getting will show definite cause for concern.

Personally, with most buffs going raid wide, I feel it's going to have the opposite effect that Blizz wants. Less toons to do the buffing, leaving more raid spots for the pure dps'ers. This to me is a major cause for concern.

[Gomexus]

1 spec? t4 resto shams get taken into t6 guilds and carried / enh shaman can have blues but still be worth 1500 dps, if he does 500 dps
as for eles, their just not that popular overall, just cuz not many play them.

but w/e, gl with ur post

You sir are an idiot. Re-read my post. I could give a crap less about T4 resto being accepted to T6 guilds...all they are going to do is spam CH which is EXACTLY what I said:

We are forced into 1 spec 90% of the time for raids, and only because of one spell that was not even new in BC.

Here's a hint...that 1 spell I mentioned...yea it's Chain Heal.

Enhancement Shaman wearing blues might theoretically add 1500dps to a raid....but no one will take them when a well geared rogue can add 2k...

Elementals...underplayed...maybe on your server, but atm all I ever run into in PvP are either retard Enhancement's with 2x daggers with fiery on both...or geared out Elementals. Every once in a while you find a resto...and they are still spamming CH in BG's when it's 2 horde vs 8 alliance...