Balance Tree Ideas[Constructive Feedback / Opinions Wanted]

[Hambown]

So I have made, yet another tree. This time it's Balance.
I added a few talents, removed a few, changed a lot, and moved a lot.
Tell me what you think.

http://www.war-tools.com/t58136.html

Tree changed on 9/14/08

Balance!

Tier 1:
-Reduced cast time for Terraburst added.

Tier 2:
-Focused Starlight chanced to all spells capable of obtaining a critical strike.

Tier 3:
-Nature's Grace: Icon changed (Yay for new icons )

Tier 4:
-*New Talent*: Celestial Synergy- Increases your damage done by your Wrath spell to targets afflicted by your Insect Swarm by [2|4]%, and increases the critical strike chance of your Starfire spell by [2|4]% on targets afflicted by your Moonfire spell.
-Celestial Focus: Reduced to 2 points. Now a 7/15% chance to stun, spell haste removed, but now increases your chance to hit with spells by 2/4%

Tier 5:
-Moonfury moved to this tier and now is affected by all balance spells.
-Vengeance is now only 2 points, but requires Nature's Grace.
-*New Talent*: Inject: Causes your insects summoned by your Insect Swarm to inject a volatile poison into your target, inflicting X nature damage and decreasing your target's run speed by 50% for 5 sec.

Tier 6: Dreamstate changed to "Regenerate mana equal to [4|8]% of your combined Intellect and Spirit every 5 sec, even while casting."
-Lunar Guidance now additionally increases your critical strike rating by [11|22|33]% of your total Spirit.
-Wrath of Cenarius moved here and is now only 3 points.

Tier 7: Moonkin Form now also regenerates 30% of mana while casting and is able to use Abolish Poison.
-Improved Moonkin Aura changed to "Your Moonkin Aura also causes affected targets to gain an additional 1/2/3% spell crit chance and 2/4/6% haste.

Tier 8:
-New Talent: Moonkin Supremacy: After shifting into Moonkin Form, the next spell you cast is reduced by [0.3|0.6|0.9|1.2|1.5] sec. In addition, increases your Intellect by [2|4|6|8|10]%.
-New Talent: Cyclone Armor:Reduces the duration of Silence, Interrupt, Stun, and Fear effects on you by [15|30]%. In addition, reduces the chance you will be hit by [2|4]%.

Tier 9:
-Eclipse changed to "Gives your Wrath spell a [33|66|100]% chance to cause you to gain the Eclipse: Starfire buff, increasing the critical strike chance of your Starfire by 5%. Stacks 2 times.<br />Gives your Starfire spell a {33|66|100]% chance to cause you to gain the Eclipse: Wrath buff, increasing the damage of your Wrath by 5%. Stacks 2 times.<br />These abilities last 12 seconds."
-Typhoon now only costs 20% base mana, knocks back 8 yards, and slows the target's movement speed by 50% for 3 sec.
-Force of Nature now has very high Area of Effect resistance.
-*New Talent*: Life Leeches: Your Insect Swarm also summons leeches onto your target, applying the Life Leech debuff, causing 10/20% of healing done to the affected target to transfer to you.

Tier 10:
-Earth and Moon condensed to 3 points and also increases chance to hit with everything by 3%
-Gale Winds moved to this tier, and now increases Cyclone's range by [5|10] yards.

Tier 11:
-Starfall can no longer be dispelled or spellstolen and cooldown reduced to 2 minutes.


Resto!

Tier One:
-Natural Shapeshifter moved here.

Tier Two: Master Shapeshifter moved here.


Other Changes!

-Furor made baseline
-Insect Swarm made baseline
-New Spell!: Terraburst. Look on the tree for more info.
-Changed Entangling Roots mechanics a little. Look on the tree for more info.

In this new build, we will DEFINITELY have better mana efficiency, and we won't need as many points in Resto as we did before. For example: you will no longer have to take Intensity unless you want a lot and a lot of mana regen, since I put 30% mana regen in Moonkin Form, and buffed Dreamstate.

There is also a lot more than just that.


You may ask: Why add Terraburst? Well, think about the burst you could do. [Insect Swarm]->Cyclone->Terraburst->Inject->Moonfire

And why the Entangling Roots change? So we can actually use the damage it causes and so Brambles has more of a use.

Hope you like it


Reasons for these changes below!

[Hambown]

I changed it up a bit, and added a list of what I changed.

[valqui]

Hi, here is my Balance talent tree http://www.war-tools.com/t58191.html I hope you like it.

[Hambown]

Hi, here is my Balance talent tree http://www.war-tools.com/t58191.html I hope you like it.

As lame as it was of you to try to hijack my thread, I really like your Pacify idea.

[Walkerz]

You guys are insane those tree's are way to overpowerd Blizz will never implent those i mean be reasonable some of that stuf is just crazy.

[Hambown]

You guys are insane those tree's are way to overpowerd Blizz will never implent those i mean be reasonable some of that stuf is just crazy.

Care to elaborate?

[Viginti]

Yeah, it doesnt seem too bad TBH. Some of it maybe be a little OP, but over all, there are alot of needed changes. We aren't a strong class ATM. Why don't people realize that?

[mgp84]

Some of the talents I get, other I don't. Celestial Synergy is perfect and even lowering the 5pt crit modifier to 2 is in the good direction, but not THAT much. Lower it to 3 points. Mages get this @ tier 9 and it only goes to 50% (I know that spell coefficients come into play but you get the point).
Your eclipse change is a no go. Have you even run numbers on how that would affect your DPS? I know that moonkins are supposed to be competitive, but I'm pretty sure that Blizzard doesn't want them to 1-button PWN all other caster classes.
Imp Moonkin Form = No go aswell, but I would try and mix Imp FF and Balance of Nature.
I like your changes to Lunar Guidance, but you are aware that this talent will only help you alot @ the start of raiding at lvl 80? As your gear progresses you'll prob get a bit more int/spirit but get more spell dmg/crit as you move along... I'd rework it to get more scalability.
Inject=Nice addition.
Mana Regeneration=No Go. Spriests/Surv Hunters/Totems/so many different new additions to mana regeneration, and the fact that moonkin gear appears to have so much of it makes me say NO not needed.

[Warriorspwnwithhealer]

Yeah, it doesnt seem too bad TBH. Some of it maybe be a little OP, but over all, there are alot of needed changes. We aren't a strong class ATM. Why don't people realize that?

If you mean ATM as in TBC, moonkins can actually be pretty good in dps (not warlock good but not terribad) And give great utility
And if you mean as in WOTLK moonkins have really good dps and good utility at the same time

[Zao]

I really like the idea of inject.

And Blizzard WON'T consider any of the trees made herem but they might consider some ideas if they are broought as a real suggestion.

[Viginti]

If you mean ATM as in TBC, moonkins can actually be pretty good in dps (not warlock good but not terribad) And give great utility
And if you mean as in WOTLK moonkins have really good dps and good utility at the same time

LOL, I was refering to his talent tree.

But, yes. I can put out a really decent amount of DPS with my moonkin right now (TBC). However, I can't comment on how good they are now in WOTLK because I dont have a key. I do feel some of the Blizz's choices for new talents and rearranging are pretty lackluster.

[Cerus]

LOL, I was refering to his talent tree.

But, yes. I can put out a really decent amount of DPS with my moonkin right now (TBC). However, I can't comment on how good they are now in WOTLK because I dont have a key. I do feel some of the Blizz's choices for new talents and rearranging are pretty lackluster.

While some of the talents could still use some tweaking, you should see a pretty substantial increase in your dmg once the new patch comes out. I played around with feral for a bit but decided since Balance has been the most disappointing tree that I'd give it a shot.

To sum it up in one word - incredible. IE. On live I may cap out around 4.2-4.5k Starfire crits (unbuffed) on beta I'm hitting for 5.2-5.6k All I've taken so far for mana type issues is Dreamstate and Furor and I've yet to run into ANY mana problems even though my MP5 is lower on Beta.

Starfall, even though it needs some serious PvP help, is an incredible spell and so far I'm very impressed with what they've done to Balance, I think you will be as well.

My current spec that I've been playing around with
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

[Hambown]

Yeah, it doesnt seem too bad TBH. Some of it maybe be a little OP, but over all, there are alot of needed changes. We aren't a strong class ATM. Why don't people realize that?

Thanks What abilities do you think are OP in your opinion?

[Hambown]

Some of the talents I get, other I don't. Celestial Synergy is perfect and even lowering the 5pt crit modifier to 2 is in the good direction, but not THAT much. Lower it to 3 points. Mages get this @ tier 9 and it only goes to 50% (I know that spell coefficients come into play but you get the point).
Your eclipse change is a no go. Have you even run numbers on how that would affect your DPS? I know that moonkins are supposed to be competitive, but I'm pretty sure that Blizzard doesn't want them to 1-button PWN all other caster classes.
Imp Moonkin Form = No go aswell, but I would try and mix Imp FF and Balance of Nature.
I like your changes to Lunar Guidance, but you are aware that this talent will only help you alot @ the start of raiding at lvl 80? As your gear progresses you'll prob get a bit more int/spirit but get more spell dmg/crit as you move along... I'd rework it to get more scalability.
Inject=Nice addition.
Mana Regeneration=No Go. Spriests/Surv Hunters/Totems/so many different new additions to mana regeneration, and the fact that moonkin gear appears to have so much of it makes me say NO not needed.

Thanks
-I think the 2 point crit modifier is totally fine. There's lots of bloat atm
-I went over Eclipse again and I realized that it was OP. I nerfed it a bit, but I dunno if it's any good still.
-Imp Moonkin form I changed up a bit. Dunno if I added too much haste to it though.
-Yes, I am aware about the Spirit for Lunar Guidance, but I feel it's another incentive for all the spirit we have on our gear now.
-Mana regeneration: Why not? not all of us raid, and having to go down in resto so far for OoC and then spending 3 MORE points for intensity is a little over the top. You still have the option to get it, but it'd probably be overkill.

[Hambown]

I changed the tree up a little bit just now.
A good amount of changes. Not too much though.

[Hambown]

First what I don't like about your tree: I am able to create a fully grown full featured raiding spec from it at lvl65. This is so too early, and the only things "missing" then would be MK-Supremacy, Starfall, Intensity and OoC. It can't be good to be basically done skilling 5 levels below of what you'll begin with in the expansion, with not too much to look forward too.
At lvl80 I can take just everything I want, and more. If you can cut out Intensity depending on what regen we'd have then, one could basically almost take all there is, that is even remotely interesting for a PvE-Kin. I think you somewhat turned the bloat into a serious lack of it. Vengaence as 5-pointer for example wasn't that bad, neither was Wrath of Cenarius.
I get what you're saying. To be honest, I didn't think about raiding too much, I'm a PvPer, and I'll admit that's more of what I focused on in this build, so I get what you're saying.
I can't really get a feeling for what Terraburst could be usefull. It looks very much like Pyroblast, which is actually never used unless you make it insta. Three seconds is what a cast should take at maximum to be viable in all aspects of the game, unless it makes disproportionally higher damage to compensate for the self-rooting you'd do while casting it .
I get why you're wondering about Terraburst, and again, it was a PvP choice (sorry :|). What I had in mind was, you would put up an insect swarm on the target, then cyclone them, then cast terraburst. by the time you're done casting terraburst, cyclone should just be ending, and you could then have a very good burst potential. IS -> Cyclone -> Terraburst -> Moonfire -> Inject.
Also, Nature's Swiftnessed Terraburst if you wanna make a hybrid spec.


What I do like:
IFF scrapped -> YAY!
Synergies with spirit (so badly needed).
Inject is cool, but the CD could be higher. 50% slow for 5sec every 20sec is a little too much imho. In addition to roots, cyclone, dazing barkskin and typhoon, this will really be s.th. like "damn, I just CAN'T get that friggin melee off my friggin ASS" and should be more like a last option rather than on regular use. A 30-40sec CD should be more than short enough.
I get what you're saying. The reason I put it as a 20 second CD was because, well, if you look at Fireblast, it does about the same amount of damage, and Fireblast is on a [6?] second cooldown. The main function I wanted Inject to do was instant, burst damage, and a reason to keep insect swarm up. I lowered the slow time to 3 seconds.
Eclipse is cute this way, although you'd be able to cast a minimum of 8 Wrath in the time it is up, causing the SF-Buff to be up so early that you could not really profit from it anymore because it'll run out close to just 3sec before the wrath-buff does.
I liked the idea of charges s.o. made in the off. forums, where a wrath crit gave one charge (=one cast) of SF+10%crit, SF -> W+10%dmg respectively. These charges stack up to 3 or 5, and time out after some time.
Wow, I actually really like that idea. a lot.
Finally a worthwhile Dreamstate. The current one is just a bad joke.


So there are really good talents, good arrangement of the talents, but it needs some serious finetuning in point consumption mostly.

I really appreciate your feedback. It makes me sad that I've had over 1000 views on this thread, but only like 6 people (or less?) have replied. Anyways, I replied to your feedback in the quote, it's in blue so you should notice it

Also, do you think you could post this on the official forums? I'm currently unsubbed so I can't post there, and I know a lot more people are on those forums, and I would appreciate more feedback

[Madus]

I posted that on offic too...

Force of Nature:
Hit Points: All in once they have 80% of master Total Hit Points. So when Druid have 10000 HP, Treant have 8000/3 HP = 2670 HP.
Passive skill “Life shield” reduces all aoe damage and fear duration by 60%.

Typhoon:
Knockback increased to 10yards, Delay removed.

Eclipse:
It should be exact PVE talent which give moonkin competency in damage scaling.
Maybe something like this (I don’t math about it too much…):
Every starfire crit have 33/66/100% chance give you stackable buff Lunar Eclipse. Lunar Eclipse stack 3 times, Increase damage and decrease Mana cost of your Next Wrath by 33/66/100%. Every wrath crit have 33/66/100% chance give you stackable Solar Eclipse. Solar Eclipse stack 3 times, Decrease casting time of your Next Starfire by 33/66/100%.

Earth and Moon:
3 points 33/66/100%.

Starfall:
2 min cooldown. Nondispellable / Nonstunable / Nonstealable.

Gale winds:
Increase Cyclone range by 3/6 yards. In addition your typhoon have 25/50% chance disorient for 2/4s.

Vengeance:
3 points 33/66/100%

Celestial focus:
2 points 7/15% stun, 2/4 % haste.

Improved Moonkin form:
Increase affected targets to gain 1/2/3% haste and spell hit.

Improved Faerie Fire:
Removed

[Sarevokcz]

What I do like:
IFF scrapped -> YAY!
Synergies with spirit (so badly needed).
Inject is cool, but the CD could be higher. 50% slow for 5sec every 20sec is a little too much imho. In addition to roots, cyclone, dazing barkskin and typhoon, this will really be s.th. like "damn, I just CAN'T get that friggin melee off my friggin ASS" and should be more like a last option rather than on regular use. A 30-40sec CD should be more than short enough.
Eclipse is cute this way, although you'd be able to cast a minimum of 8 Wrath in the time it is up, causing the SF-Buff to be up so early that you could not really profit from it anymore because it'll run out close to just 3sec before the wrath-buff does.
I liked the idea of charges s.o. made in the off. forums, where a wrath crit gave one charge (=one cast) of SF+10%crit, SF -> W+10%dmg respectively. These charges stack up to 3 or 5, and time out after some time.
Finally a worthwhile Dreamstate. The current one is just a bad joke.

as a another dps hybrid, i AGREE with everything above.

[Hambown]

I could only post it to the german live forums, and that job has already been done by somenone else

Hey thanks for tryin I can't read german, do you think you could send me the link?

[Hambown]

Oh hai! I can haz more feedback?


Please?