18.09 resto changes - PvE discussion

[procne]

moar free points for balance.

yep, thats how i see it. ill go straight for nature's splendor and forget about lifegrowth. on lvl 75 ill get gift of the earthmother as well and then fill some other talents like imp. tranquility and so on

[Deleted]

they changes are in actuality a poor excuse for a nerf and I hope more are on the way. Lifebloom has always been OP and its finally being scaled down. Wild Growth still scales with spell power so 1600 was a huge number and needed to be lessened. As far as your mana pool goes, you never run out so the cost of ALL druids heals should be increased. Every other class pots you should too.

Druids please stop complaining that you are slightly less OP but still OP. You outheal all other healer specs by a ratio of 2 to 1 in WotLK. Fun for you but shits creek for all other healers.

Your 1500 rated ass wont get higher no matter how druids get nerfed so just stfu with the QQ.
Druids aren't dominating anything in beta/PTR anyway, if you haven't noticed pretty much all other healers got some wicked buffs and new talents. Restodruids didn't really get fuck all. And they already lost Feral Charge.

[procne]

Your 1500 rated ass wont get higher no matter how druids get nerfed so just stfu with the QQ.

pls flame somewhere else

Druids aren't dominating anything in beta/PTR anyway, if you haven't noticed pretty much all other healers got some wicked buffs and new talents. Restodruids didn't really get fuck all. And they already lost Feral Charge.

its hard to dominate anything with all this lag. i bet noone had real chance to test it yet. and we got some nice talents like nature's splendor and gift of the earthmother, but with lifebloom nerfs they are not so good anymore. its more like shifting from lifebloom's quality to quantity of lifeblooms. wild growth seemed to be something really great but was effectively razed to the ground.

however, really nice thing we got is regrowth with glyph, nature's grace and living seed

[Trianiel]

This day is great !

But a 25% nerf on life bloom is not enought, i was hoping 50%.

And the guy who says just because his talent is 51 point and the priest one is 41, then his must be better is false ... for no reasonable reason, just because i love to see you guys QQing ^^ so sweet !

Your argument is invalid ! xD .. and i have none, but don't need to have some

[procne]

This day is great !

But a 25% nerf on life bloom is not enought, i was hoping 50%.

And the guy who says just because his talent is 51 point and the priest one is 41, then his must be better is false ... for no reasonable reason, just because i love to see you guys QQing ^^ so sweet !

Your argument is invalid ! xD .. and i have none, but don't need to have some

you need to post. check forum guidelines. what you do is simply trolling.
are you another of those frustrated pvp guys who spent all their game in arenas and get pissed by losing to druids all the time and removing reto druids from game or completely breaking their main spells is your biggest dream?

[Trianiel]

Not at all

Just hoping for some balance in PvE and PvP. Coz i play both ... not very good thought, but i try to improve my self.

Druid was just imbalanced, the fact that you are QQing just show you were not able to see that.

I saw warlock was imbalanced in the very start of BC, and was just hoping for some nerf. Do you like playing a class, and everybody saying : "lol u hav ur glad title becoz ur a 2s lama !" or "u hav ur raid slot becoz u over heal the raid !" ... ???

I didn't like being said : "you warlock are OP, you play easy class with fear spamming ..." and then the nerf bat came, and it was fine, i could play my class again not bothered by the fact i was imbalanced.

Please just be more serious and objective in your feel of your class. And stop QQing, i'm sure you all would find a good way to have your slot in raid, and to have your glad title for the best of yours.

[procne]

notafama, why do u quote this for? that we have 1.5 sec cast that costs 700-800 mana and heals for less than regrowth? no, thx

trianiel, look. lifebloom was my main tool in raids. and it was nerfed by 20% and cost increased by 50%. now, i dont get new tool because wild growth is simply unusable. i know it was too good and needed toning down but now its just too low.

and no, i dont do pvp. because of all those wars, ppl whining and flaming at each other. because it just cant be balanced. because of all this e-peen "omg ur 1600? u suck!", "u won cause u are lucky, but u still sux". for me arena is worst thing that was added to wow. i know many ppl like it but for me it just destroyed too much.

[Trianiel]

So, Procne ...

i have an idea, and if in the end, we'd see a glyph :

Glyph of LifeBloom : Increase healing done by 25%, reduce mana cost by 50% but no longer has an on dispell effect.

And then PvE and PvP would be balanced !
Now just have to pray for that.

[procne]

So, Procne ...

i have an idea, and if in the end, we'd see a glyph :

Glyph of LifeBloom : Increase healing done by 25%, reduce mana cost by 50% but no longer has an on dispell effect.

And then PvE and PvP would be balanced !
Now just have to pray for that.

problem is that final effect is useful for pve too. dispell effect no. 25% and 50% is just too much as well. 10% and 20% would be really fine. but then i think pvp druids would take it as well. not so many classes can dispel after all.

[Jukaï]

This day is great !

But a 25% nerf on life bloom is not enought, i was hoping 50%.

And the guy who says just because his talent is 51 point and the priest one is 41, then his must be better is false ... for no reasonable reason, just because i love to see you guys QQing ^^ so sweet !

Your argument is invalid ! xD .. and i have none, but don't need to have some

You Sir, are a fucking moron. (Read; forum troll)

Do you even comprehend how Druid healing, a.k.a. Healing of Time healing works ? Hm ?

Let's say we have a tank A. Tank A gets slapped by Boss B and takes damage.

Let's say a quick heal is being used. Paladins/Shamans/Priests easily get a heal with a number in the thousands. Now we go to the Druid healer, who's direct healing spell (Healing Touch) just is not practical anymore. So he resorts to his main feat: HoT healing. Which HoT is the most efficient ? That's right folks, Lifebloom. Why ? Because it starts its healing immediately and goes on for 7 more seconds.

Let's say for the sake of this argument that of all the three other classes their heal took one and a half second to be cast, what should Lifebloom have been healing for then ? Let's say, again for the sake of the argument, that any of the other classes their heal has healed Tank A for 2000 damage. My Lifebloom, on live, cannot get to that number by ticking one or two times, so it loses up to as many as at least 5 extra 'ticks' it could have done healing.

As Lifebloom currently cannot even match that, it will certainly not match that in WoTLK with the constant beating and nerfing it has received, in fact the nerfing has been so bad that Lifebloom, two ranks and ten levels later, heals for about the same as it does on live currently.

Heal over Time heals need to be more powerful when comparing to their directive counterparts. Why ? Because Healing of Time healing is based on preemptively applying a heal which you know will be less effective then their direct cousins, so these heals assist the classes with these other, direct, spells to keep a raid/person standing on it's feet.

The one area where Druids were lacking in the field of healing was Area of Effect, or group healing. Flourish is the perfect spell in the general thought of how Druid and their healing-role evolved by it being a HoT but also being one that prioritizes its own targets near it's impact target, picking up to five targets.

Flourish in the previous build was too powerful. All the 'good' Druids realized this and did expect a nerf, but not that Blizzard would drive a steamroller over it, stomped on it three times for good measure and build a freaking house on top of it named 'Wild Growth Hostel' just to disguise how disgustingly they raped this spell.

[procne]

ok, so please justify this nerf from pve point of view. tell why druids should have lifebloom nerfed in pve. and dont start with "cause they are OP!".

[procne]

ok, stop telling me "L2P". its obvious druids have NO other hots that would be reliable for healing. rejuv, regrowth? they tick every 3 secs for small ammounts. truth is that nerfing lifebloom by 25% means nerfing resto druid healing by 25%. lifebloom is the main source of hps.

[Bakis]

/gloat @ dr00ds

[procne]

1.2k only? did u count crits in? its 1.5 sec cast only after all...

and adane - those changes will be added before wotlk. so its not only beta issues. those things will land on live in few weeks

[Trianiel]

You Sir, are a fucking moron. (Read; forum troll)

Do you even comprehend how Druid healing, a.k.a. Healing of Time healing works ? Hm ?

Let's say we have a tank A. Tank A gets slapped by Boss B and takes damage.

Let's say a quick heal is being used. Paladins/Shamans/Priests easily get a heal with a number in the thousands. Now we go to the Druid healer, who's direct healing spell (Healing Touch) just is not practical anymore. So he resorts to his main feat: HoT healing. Which HoT is the most efficient ? That's right folks, Lifebloom. Why ? Because it starts its healing immediately and goes on for 7 more seconds.

Let's say for the sake of this argument that of all the three other classes their heal took one and a half second to be cast, what should Lifebloom have been healing for then ? Let's say, again for the sake of the argument, that any of the other classes their heal has healed Tank A for 2000 damage. My Lifebloom, on live, cannot get to that number by ticking one or two times, so it loses up to as many as at least 5 extra 'ticks' it could have done healing.

As Lifebloom currently cannot even match that, it will certainly not match that in WoTLK with the constant beating and nerfing it has received, in fact the nerfing has been so bad that Lifebloom, two ranks and ten levels later, heals for about the same as it does on live currently.

Heal over Time heals need to be more powerful when comparing to their directive counterparts. Why ? Because Healing of Time healing is based on preemptively applying a heal which you know will be less effective then their direct cousins, so these heals assist the classes with these other, direct, spells to keep a raid/person standing on it's feet.

The one area where Druids were lacking in the field of healing was Area of Effect, or group healing. Flourish is the perfect spell in the general thought of how Druid and their healing-role evolved by it being a HoT but also being one that prioritizes its own targets near it's impact target, picking up to five targets.

Flourish in the previous build was too powerful. All the 'good' Druids realized this and did expect a nerf, but not that Blizzard would drive a steamroller over it, stomped on it three times for good measure and build a freaking house on top of it named 'Wild Growth Hostel' just to disguise how disgustingly they raped this spell.

Ok i've read all those things, and agree on most of the statement, exept for the counterpart of the heal overtime, heals over time are like DOTs, you can put them on someone and leave him almost alone, and you'll be sure your heals/damage will make their job.

And you take the pov of a tank healer, perhaps druid have never been designed for this task, perhaps druids are being designed as a fast and preemptive raid healer. Who knows ?

The fact is, with its current power, LB was or would become a too powerfull spell. Most of the raids in BT i've made, the healmeter was owned by druids, and they had less stuff than our pallys/priest. So what can we deduce ? Druid overpowered ? => no, not in all cases, there's a lot of raid damage in BT, that can explain this domination. But i think (its my opinion) that LB was a bit too powerfull ...

That's all, my first post was intended to help you understand how silly it is to QQ about something in a game, and how fast flamers and troll can come on a topic like this.

[Kakura]

I think I speak for a lot of druids when I say that we don't object to the nature of the changes, but to the degree of them. Both spells took a substantial hit to healing and also a pretty sharp increase to the mana cost. If it'd been milder on both fronts, or only one aspect got hit, it'd be easier to swallow.

Right now, I'm guessing we're in the beta yo-yo phase where things go from over powered to under powered between builds. Hopefully we'll get tuned back up a little to a reasonable level.

[mgp84]

My 2 cents:
Druid changes are somewhat controversial. We did need somewhat of a nerf, but not that big. Through BT/SWP/MH, our resto's dominated, BUT they are GOOD healers. From a pool of diverse classes (12 healers in the guild, evenly spread between each healing class) our restos were always Top in healing charts, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they were the BEST healers.
Chain heal may save our DPS but not heal as much as a constant tick. Inspiration is the reason tanks survived through Brut. Big steady heals for little mana is the best way to heal a tank.
What I'm trying to say is that each healing class has its pluses and minuses.
The Flourish/whatever it is now change was well deserved. We were never supposed to be a strong AoE healing class, BUT the increase in healing vs mana cost is NOT. I guess that we'll see how things are played out. I do think that Blizzard will not let things go wrong for resto druids, they only treat ferals and boomkins that way .

[Eilt]

If you are in SWP and don't have resto shammies topping the meter every night, find new resto shammies. The amount of AoE damage in there make CoH priests and CH shammies the BEST raid healers, and in all of the fights everyone is taking constant damage so they are constantly casting. Druids had their role in MT healing mainly, where we could hot up tanks and give the pallies a little bit of extra time to cast, kinda leveling out spike damage. Of course brut's burn and such are exceptions for MT healing, but for the most part druids hots are no where near as effective as CoH or CH.

[mgp84]

Ranking According to our numbers:
Kalecgos: Shaman
Brut: Resto Druid
Felmyst: HPriest

These are the *usual* numbers, all I am saying is that the druids are usually 1-3 ranked.

[Eilt]

What do you have your resto druid healing on brut that he is outheling CoH and CH on meteor slash victims?