[Blue Post] : unlimited targets for Swipe

[blahblahnameblah]

It doesnt really matter if swipe isnt 360 degrees. As a tank you want to position yourself so that you are facing the whole group you are fighting anyhow, no matter if you consecrate or use thunderclap. Either that or you will take more damage.

Anyway, thats what a good tank does. Swipe does not have a cooldown anyhow where as both concecration and thunderclap does. So...

Swipe:
Pros: No cooldown, Unlimited targets
Cons: Only 180 degree frontal cone(but you dont want mobs to be behind you anyway), Costs rage

Concecration:
Pros: 360 degrees, keeps ticking
Cons: Cooldown, Costs mana

Thunderclap:
Pros: Debuff, 360 degrees, unlimited targets
Cons: Cooldown, Costs rage

Thread should have been locked after this post.

[Yeran]

If we are talking about lots of mobs healing aggro is no problem at all. You forgot the bear-threat-modificator in your calculations to start with (which increased in WotLK) and you have to admit that 3-4 mobs shouldnt be a problem anyway. On live i can tank those and WotLK will add 2 target maul and berserk to help.
Also, if you add more mobs to this, tanking will get more and more easy (aggrowise).

Our snap ability is masstaunt (thus the decreased cd).

[Stormrage]

2 target maul

Is possibly the worst glyph ever, it will hit cc'ed targets.

[Yeran]

Couldnt care less to be true. Im used to adjust my position to be able to swipe, its just the same with maul then. I guess it will hit the closest target, so it is really easy to handle. To make things even easier i use to run with competent cc so sheeps will most likely be out of my range anyway.

I will certainly get that maul glyphe and never understand those who bitch about it. All classes with bladefurry equivalent will love it at 2-target-pulls.

[Natgul]

Ehi guys, finally Druid Get AOE Damage, useful in Tank or DPS PVP, it's very, very interesting.

Remember: Druid are "Added tank", not purely Tank (War---Pally---DK), and im happy to see this change.

If u want to overwrite the plate-class, roll a plate.

[Stormrage]

Ehi guys, finally Druid Get AOE Damage, useful in Tank or DPS PVP, it's very, very interesting.

Remember: Druid are "Added tank", not purely Tank (War---Pally---DK), and im happy to see this change.

If u want to overwrite the plate-class, roll a plate.

No, tanks are tanks. Druids will be able to mt tank anything, just like any other tanking class/spec.

[susi666]

It's a very good change.
We shouldn't speculate about threat until we get some real numbers. So far we only know it will be raised and that's good.

Main concern is that it is NOT spammable except in bombing situations. You need to build up extra threat on the focus mob, you can't just spam swipe or you will fail.
That's the main advantage of the Paladin, his AOE last longer, it's an advantage that he does not have to spam it, not a disadvantage as some say.

But it will also be useful for farming and lvling. You will be able to kill faster than in cat form when you pull 5+ mobs and swipe them all.

Also nice for Arathi Basin when you guard the flag against several enemies, hitting only 3 targets was sometimes not enough.

[Kryostasys]

Main concern is that it is NOT spammable except in bombing situations. You need to build up extra threat on the focus mob, you can't just spam swipe or you will fail.
That's the main advantage of the Paladin, his AOE last longer, it's an advantage that he does not have to spam it, not a disadvantage as some say.

Queue Maul and Drop one Swipe for a Mangle in the rotation. Focus target threat sorted. It's totally spammable

[Knuffelbert]

Sometimes I wonder if some of those complaining actually tanked before.

The one complaining that healaggro might be a problem: Swipe scales quite okay with AP and bears usually have a very high critchance. As someone pointed out it does around 500 dmg in wotlk, with 5 targets being hit and 1.45 threat modifier you need a healer without threat reduction to heal you around 7500 per 1.5 seconds in order to draw aggro! With threat reduction its a lot more. if there are even more mobs, the "more impossible" will it be for the healer to draw aggro.

About not being able to spam it, currently swipe is in very good aggro gear better than lacerate on a single target already and is there anything stopping you from throwing in a mangle once in a while? Maul/white hits will produce extra aggro on the focus target as well.

It's such a huge buff that I can't understand this QQ to be honest.

[Beasty]

Is possibly the worst glyph ever, it will hit cc'ed targets.

so MOVE


can't move? dont maul


besides it is prioritising none cc'd targets, and why on earth you would use cc on a melee target with 2 or 3 mobs I honestly don't know

so help me god

[Chrysanthemum]

Sometimes I wonder if some of those complaining actually tanked before.

I have to agree with you here.

A really good bear tank now can hold aggro off of 4 to 5 mobs even though swipe has the 3 enemy hit cap. I should know, I've tanked heroic Shattered Halls with only 1 CC before. If you're having problems holding aggro on the main target then you REALLY need to learn how to tank. Maul doesn't activate a GCD and from what it looks like blizz plans on making all non % bonus threat attacks scale with AP(sunder does at least and i think a few others do too) so the bonus threat from maul very well may increase with AP as well.

This also probably means that Lacerate will ALWAYS do better single target threat than swipe.

Have you all not ALSO realized the repercussions this will have with Primal Fury? You get 5 rage for EVERY crit that swipe causes. If you have no hit cap on swipe you could VERY easily have infinite rage in an AoE situation meaning that you can always be spamming Maul. Focus target issue solved and HELL you could even pop Frenzied regen and not run out of rage.

It's such a huge buff that I can't understand this QQ to be honest.

Druids seem to complain about EVERYTHING. If it's a buff it's not enough and if it's a nerf it wasn't deserved. The druid community in WoW appears to be little more than a massive collection of whiny little bitches and it makes me happy to see the few of us who don't complain about EVERY LITTLE THING speak out. Don't get me wrong, Blizz does make mistakes occasionally and I don't agree with all of their changes but, that doesn't mean that i think we should all whine about it.

[Nightcrowler]

Yuu bear aggro multiplier is 2.1. they have changed it in wotlk.

[Rusiak]

Have you all not ALSO realized the repercussions this will have with Primal Fury? You get 5 rage for EVERY crit that swipe causes. If you have no hit cap on swipe you could VERY easily have infinite rage in an AoE situation meaning that you can always be spamming Maul. Focus target issue solved and HELL you could even pop Frenzied regen and not run out of rage.

That was my first thought about the change to no target limit. Endless rage if you pull enough mobs.

[Beasty]

That was my first thought about the change to no target limit. Endless rage if you pull enough mobs.

that's pretty much the case already and is hardly imbalanced

[kenderx]

Awesome, awesome change. I'm very happy about it. It also means we'll be able to add a little more damage in AoE situations which is a nice bonus.

[Koumaru]

Druids seem to complain about EVERYTHING. If it's a buff it's not enough and if it's a nerf it wasn't deserved. The druid community in WoW appears to be little more than a massive collection of whiny little bitches and it makes me happy to see the few of us who don't complain about EVERY LITTLE THING speak out. Don't get me wrong, Blizz does make mistakes occasionally and I don't agree with all of their changes but, that doesn't mean that i think we should all whine about it.

Instead, we should whine about people whining about it? At least the whiners have logical points. The "meta-whining" accomplishes nothing.

These changes to AoE threat gen were never needed in the first place. The reason you see druids whining about AoE threat buffs is because another tanking class (warrior) received a significant buff to its AoE threat gen that that class didn't need, either.

It's easy for one tank class/spec to be the go-to tank for raids and heroics. If Blizzard wants all tanks to be equally capable MTs, but one tank has a significant (dis)advantage in a common tanking situation, players of that class/spec are going to whine. If that leaves all tanks feeling too similar, the fault lies with Blizzard for diminishing the niche roles of each tank type. Without clear tanking niches, threat/mitigation/utility need to be fairly even across the board.

On PTR I have no tanking issues whatsoever. It's also more fun than in live thanks to new abilities and cooldowns to rely on. But regardless whether the state of bear tanking on PTR/beta seems "adequate," if I'm going to be perceived as a "second-class" tank by the raid min-maxers at 80, I'm not going to shove my stubby bear tail between my legs and just accept it for another two years. Not now that the physical mitigation niche we at least enjoyed in TBC is gone.

Ditto about concerns over unlimited rage from the Swipe change. Warriors don't gain rage by Thunderclapping; far from it. Curious what nerfs will come from this change if they decide to keep it after the next build is tested. Anyone think its damage will be due for another nerf as well (though a nerf of this sort would necessitate a threat boost)?

[Porphy]

I like the change. *duck*

[Yeran]

Honestly, what is a bear going to do with limitless rage? Right now I can swipe and maul constantly most of time while tanking 3 mobs in any raid-instance.

You can add frenzy regen (3min cd) and maybe some creative berserk usage (after you got enough aggro on all the mobs you can perma-mangle with 1 swipe in between to fill your rage-bar). But thats it. Hardly imbalanced as far as i could tell. Probably most useful at solo-aoe-grinding.

Still im curious if the damage will stay. I really hope so, as aoe-farming with my protection paladin twink is some great fun (sometimes even doing low-level instances in one pull and stuff), but only blizzard can tell.

[Koumaru]

Well, just in case the damage is beaten with the nerf bat later, as soon as this change hits the PTR, I'm doing some single-pull Stockades runs just for fun.

Grab 60 mobs, then back up slowly ... SWIPE SWIPE!

*leaving combat*

Have to play with it while it lasts. ;D