JotW: buffed or nerfed?

[Darkeningsky]

Judgement of the Wise has been changed to grant you 33% of your base mana instead of 20% of your maximum mana.
is this a nerf or a buff to JotW? the number is bigger, but now it is base mana instead of maximum mana? are rets gonna go back to having mana issues or is this an improvement?

[Sardonicpoet]

Rets won't have Intellect on the gear they want to use.

So for a Ret paladin, base mana pretty much = total mana.

Just yell at that mage that tries to give you Arcane Intellect.

[Trylan]

Will be a good improvement for Ret at lvl 80 (no more int on gear)

A nerf to holy/ret specs that try to profit from JotW manaregen

[Moruk]

It was a "fix". Holy Paladins will no longer be able to use this talent for unlimited mana. If you'll refer to http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=14853.0"]Rawberry's FAQ[/url], you'll see that Paladins have a base mana of 4394, and as such will be getting 1450 mana back per cast. Considering we have no Intellect on our Retribution gear anymore, if anything, it's a buff to the current JotW.

[Karpalo]

Yeah cause buffs hurt! They really do hurt bad...

[Xephan]

It's a welcome change, imo. I was on the verge of wearing hunter mail just to boost my mana return.

[Mysmere]

for pve thisd be a slight buff i imagine considering int buff + kings from some other pally would give a much larger max mana poll for the 20% max to benefeit off of. aka 60x15 = 900 = 180 more per judge. +10-20 more int from kings? dunno exactly.
for ret.

for pvp its a big buff for ret if you couldn't find yourself some buffs.

[Lamnent]

True, they no longer have unlimited mana, but don't underestimate them, that is still a substantial amount every 8 seconds and ontop of that they still get replenishment which does scale with max mana. Oh, and I almost forgot about Divine Plea, even though we can't heal during it it is still 25% of our max over 15 seconds, you just need to use it liberally and time it well.

[Xephan]

True, they no longer have unlimited mana, but don't underestimate them, that is still a substantial amount every 8 seconds and ontop of that they still get replenishment which does scale with max mana. Oh, and I almost forgot about Divine Plea, even though we can't heal during it it is still 25% of our max over 15 seconds, you just need to use it liberally and time it well.

Too bad it's still not nearly as good as the boner-inducing Shamanistic Rage... but Enhancement Shamans keep getting shafted so I'll let it slide.

[Lamnent]

Too bad it's still not nearly as good as the boner-inducing Shamanistic Rage... but Enhancement Shamans keep getting shafted so I'll let it slide.

I have no interest in doing the numbers to see what comes out on top, but it's very possible to be crowd controlled for a large portion of Shamanistic Rage, so I think I'd rather have my Wise Judgements.

[Xephan]

I have no interest in doing the numbers to see what comes out on top, but it's very possible to be crowd controlled for a large portion of Shamanistic Rage, so I think I'd rather have my Wise Judgements.

In PvP, I'd have to agree that Judgments of the Wise seems to have far more utility. Though I have to give Shamanistic Rage credit for its sheer amazingness when it comes to grinding mobs or going back to full mana every 3 minutes on a long boss fight. Also, I think that the 30% damage reduction ~almost~ makes up for being a ridiculously CC-able Enhancement Shaman.

[Offhand]

Hybrid holy builds were starting to pick up JotW after they moved Sheath way down the tree.

Every time the holy's come up with something fun Blizzard slaps their hand. Kinda annoying.

[Aetius]

From what i've been hearing though, with all the mana-regen tools in the game now, speccing into ret for JotW would really be a bad investment in the first place. Healidans have always been extremely mana efficient, grant it has been nerfed over time but still shouldn't be a problem.

[Lamnent]

From what i've been hearing though, with all the mana-regen tools in the game now, speccing into ret for JotW would really be a bad investment in the first place. Healidans have always been extremely mana efficient, grant it has been nerfed over time but still shouldn't be a problem.

You're right for PVE, this nerf broke the camels back in that area, but for PVP it is still viable if not much better than the other options.

1: No question, you get MUCH more longevity
2: Repentance, nuff said.
3: +8% crit with heals, 12% crit against judged targets.
4: Open slot for your boot enchant thanks to Pursuit.
5: Eye for an Eye is AMAZING now.
6: Under appreciated; Divine Purpose, completely negating a Deep Freeze, Kidney Shot or Hammer of Justice during any part of an arena match would be game breaking, let alone once every 25 seconds, it's just too bad you can't

Vindication gets an honorable mention, but I'm really not sure if it procs off spells or not, either way you should still be meleeing now and then anyway.

[Nookius]

i like the change seeing as i raid ret. and with the added nerfs to holy including this and and the change to divine plea, i dont see myself going back to holy now, ever. the only fun thing i looked forward to as holy in wotlk was speccing 48/0/23 for sheath of light, before it was moved into deep ret. screw cookie cutter healing builds, its been that way for 3 years. holy is boring, even if you keep up judgements, its boring we have 2 and a half healing spells and no hots. anyway sorry this isn't a qq post. i definetly say its a buff where its needed and a fix where it was op, not that i had mana issues as ret before.

[uberduck]

not a huge change for ret pallys just stopping holy pallys from ever having to worry about mana if they choose to spec for it

[hotbanana]

buffed for WotLK cause Retri gear which doesnt have any int stats.

[Moruk]

Test 2:
same setup, pops consecration every 3rd CS (about)

oo'med after 2min 49 sec.

not at all bad.

Hmm, that's pretty good. Especially when you consider that in a raid situation you'll have Mana Spring / Tide, Arcane Int (giving more mana from Replenishment), Divine Plea, etc, you could feasibly run a full rotation including Consecrate in WotLK.

I'll have to get around to downloading the few patches I'm missing on the PTR and do some tests myself, I want to test the impact Seal Twisting + Consecration has on my mana bar. I'm looking forward to Wrath, it's going to be interesting to sit down and work out a good rotation for Ret Pally DPS ^_^

[Moruk]

2:30.
By method of the assnaked test, as above, and casting seal/corruption when the DoT is @ approx 5 sec remaining (1/3rd of the shadeout), refreshing SoCommand, and so on.
2 minutes, 30 sec.

so yeah, maybe in a raid, with buffs out the ass and mana coming at your from left, right, up, down, and your intestinal tract.

That's including Consecration, yeah? Sounds like it'd be very tight, but worth the extra effort.

[yiptastic]

Judgement of the Wise has been changed to grant you 33% of your base mana instead of 20% of your maximum mana.
is this a nerf or a buff to JotW? the number is bigger, but now it is base mana instead of maximum mana? are rets gonna go back to having mana issues or is this an improvement?

it's a straight out buff to PvP rets, and it doesn't hurt a bit to PvE rets.

it's meant to stop holy pallies from going deep into ret for this talent.