Feral tanking spec at 80 with retaining solo cat ability

[tylinna]

This is the build I came up with for my feral main, for tanking at 80 along with being able to have kitty success on the way soloing to 80 and or dpsing on non-MT fights.

Please feel free to tell me what you would change and or do.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

[Zaktar]

I think that you should find ways to get your hands on both Intensity and Infected Wounds. Intensity is just straight up good, and Infected Wounds seems (to me at least) to be both a great soloing ability and a great mitigation debuff.

I like this for a good Tanking skeleton with some points left floating: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

I think I would probably put 3 into Predatory Instincts and 3 into Feral Instinct with that, but I'm not sure how important Master Shapeshifter is anymore. King of the Jungle seems like it would be a competitor for Predatory Instincts too.

Personally I like this for a generalist build: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

But you could argue that that spec manages to be bad at both tanking and dps =P

[shookee]

That spec looks good, but I've been toying with Infected Wounds instead of Protector of the Pack. Protector grants 6% AP, but in bear only, and 3% damage reduction. Infected Wounds stacks for 20% attack speed decrease, which presumably means longer cast times too. Discounting the 6% AP in bear form as probably unnecessary, does 20% attack speed decrease produce a greater benefit than 3% overall damage reduction?

This is all, of course, assuming that Infected Wounds works on raid bosses.

[Renya]

That spec looks good, but I've been toying with Infected Wounds instead of Protector of the Pack. Protector grants 6% AP, but in bear only, and 3% damage reduction. Infected Wounds stacks for 20% attack speed decrease, which presumably means longer cast times too. Discounting the 6% AP in bear form as probably unnecessary, does 20% attack speed decrease produce a greater benefit than 3% overall damage reduction?

This is all, of course, assuming that Infected Wounds works on raid bosses.

PotP gives 3% per player in your party

[tylinna]

Well I also played with a build that forgoes shapeshifter talents all together for a pure feral retaining what it is now spec, ability to do both tank and dps...

This build should allow maximum threat while retaining most of the dps abilities for still good cat dps. Zaktar's first build to me looks like a cluster missing talents that I feel are needed. Since swipe is gonna be our AoE tank ability not increasing it's damage seems like a bad idea all in all, predatory instincts is just a plain feral necessity for me cat or bear, and rend and tear looks amazing for cat and i use maul as a rage dump and the harder it hits the more aggro for me, and frankly with lacerate spam the mob will be bleeding when I tank.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

[Swiftly]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

this is the spec that i am going with... i have found enrage very useful pre-3.0 to really pass up King of the Jungle & Intensity. also 60 instant energy while in cat form every 30 seconds is not a bad either. i dont know why people keep on passing up king of the jungle in there specs. i will drop 1 point of surivival of the fittest once i pick up a couple of MUST have items like +armor trinket / ring / neck / cloak that i cant avoid. the high armor that has +def. why let the +def go to waste.

Cloak of the Shadowed Sun
Binds when picked up
Back
490 Armor
+56 Strength
+84 Stamina
Requires Level 80
Equip: Increases defense rating by 25 (4.47 @ L80).
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 38 (0.85% @ L80).

rend and tear / infected wounds is very good but not a require for tanking. both are best for dps still good for threat but not required

[Nightcrowler]

This is the best bear/mitigation, bear/threat, cat/dps avaible spec:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

[Deleted]

feral talents in wotlk are very important (little changes make a big difference) so if you want to be effective, don't be a hybrid.
either keep respeccing if u want to switch from dps to tanking, either wait till the thing that allows to freely change between 2 speccs for free is implemented

[Swiftly]

This is the best bear/mitigation, bear/threat, cat/dps avaible spec:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

just wondering where did you base this spec to be the highest mitigation / threat / dps? or is this just based off your opinion, or did you do some math to figure out these results for this spec to be true. i would think Imp Mangle 3/3 reducing mangle CD by 1.5 seconds making the rotation (2) lacerate / swipe instead of 3 would produce more aggro and usefulness to not wait on mangle CD when you need to use it.

personally i do like Intensity... 10 instant rage with 5 ticks of 5 rage isnt to bad plus each tick is 10 threat each... this makes enrage a good ability to start off fights... i usually range pull to pull mobs back a little to fight in safer areas, while ranging pulling and run back about 10-15yrds shift to bear get 10 rage from furor then enrage for 10 more rage and charge in to hit mangle & maul on the focus mob that enough rage to use swipe or lacerate. with king of the jungle this also increases damage output at the beginning of the fight to help produce threat through damage. Imp Mangle just helps progress the the use of mangle faster to close the gap between mangles spike threat and trying to keep as much threat before it drops to much.

with out Imp LotP you may have more talent points to spend somewhere else but you losing a heal to try to offset damage taken, which is part of the mitigation.

there will be some pieces of gear you can not avoid that has +def on it. so 3/3 of survival of the fittest would be a waste 2/3 is good enough when you have these items. high armor rings / trinkets / neck / cloaks might have def on it so you might make use of it and get 2/3 SotF.

but if you have some form of proof that your spec produces the max mitigation / threat / dps.

[tylinna]

My spec is so I can Main Tank and then if I am not needed to tank a particular fight I can still be good enough in cat form, since Blizz nerfed the ability to do both easily. Survival of the fittest will probably go to 2/3 once you hit some of those nice dodge / defense high armor rings capes and trinkets. As for the last comment none of my specs put 3/3 in imp mangle, mainly cause the extra half second seems a waste of a talent point i can see 1 or 2 points in it but all 3 seems like cutting your knees off elsewhere. Also I looked at the idea of leaving out imp LotP but to me the healing bonus on it is huge for soloing as well as helpful in raid situations as well. I wouldn't get intensity personally just because I can shift in and out of bear and pop enrage to get the rage since we have to pick up furor for naturalist and omen any way. This build I can see when you get the defense items to make 3/3 survival unneccessary, as for the comment by ovideozn about feral talents you cannot respec mid raid if say you want a warrior or a pally to tank the next boss and there isn't any thing for you to pick up. The idea is to pick up the tanking talents first then fill in gaps for dps.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

[Nightcrowler]

but if you have some form of proof that your spec produces the max mitigation / threat / dps.

Just look at the various simulations made by me and other theorycrafter on the Elitist Jerks Forum. http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t26297-d...scussion/p106/

With that spec you have 100% mitigation and only the LoP self-heal out and 2% more dmg if you don't have a warr doing demo shout. As for cat you lose about 8% dps giving up, Feral Aggression, ImpMangle and Master Shapeshifter.

[sohkar]

Dont know why u think feral instict is that good. Trust me it isnt that much as u think i am in full T6 and the extra 15% i get for swipe in my set bonus isnt really noticable. If you get master shifter then u really only get 11% extra because u get 4% more damage total using that and i think it would be better for threat with master shapeshifter because that 4% damage goes to everything with bear. Second infectived wounds is more for pvp then for pve because mostly likely it wont work on bosses and if it does it wont stack with other class ablities to slow the attacks down. intensity sucks the big one because if u pop that and reduce ur armor then u are an idiot because lets see here armor and dodge is all a druid really has. and if u do it now as play a druid tanking then you arent really from in the game because i will tell you that you wont be hitting it druid a brut fight in sunwell or u will be dead. I will be going with this spec http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000 for when i hit 80. and yes before u say something i know that i dont have imp LoTP or imp mangle but my guild runs with 2 ferals and and the other is specing int o imp LoTP and since buffs are raid wide no reason for us both to do it. and no imp mangle because i dont want to put points in it and i have no problem holding aggro when i am tanking things now so i am sure i wont when the WotLK comes out

[Avance]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

Imp LotP is a waste, nothing chain heal cant compensate for. I am not saying that Berserk and Feral Charge is wastes tho. Berserk is great for burst aggro, if you have the rage to fuel the mangle spam, sure go ahead. If not, it would be just as easy and alot cheaper rage-wise to throw out swipez'nmauls.
Feral Charge seems gimmicky, sure it helps in 5-mans and some raid bosses, but it will save you what? Like 3 seconds?
Also, Infected Wounds; it's great, but as long as you have a Death Knight or an Arms Warrior who actually knows how to play and spec, the slowing debuff will be on your target at all times.

My spec offer everything for kitty dps except imp Mangle and Berserk. (imp Mangle yields 20 energy each minute, Berserk yields 50, maxed King of the Jungle yields 120).
It also offer all the avoidance/mitigation talent there is to take except Primal Tenacity which also seems way too gimmicky. Again, imp Mangle and Berserk is the only threat talents I haven't taken. Personally I think Mangle is overrated, and Maul is incredibly underrated. Maul's damage is increased by:
-Mangle debuff, 30%
-Savage fury, 20%
-Rend and Tear, 20%

Also, causes high static threat, which Mangle does not.

If you would trade some kitty power for utility go for http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

[sohkar]

avance you made a great point about feral charge. wasnt thinking about how much i actually use it. I picked up berserk because i have a nice rotation i been using in the beta at 80 and i am producing good dps compared to the rogues so i am picking that up and if u use tigers fury then berserk then u can pop tigers fury again after the berserk is gone you use berserk to help get even more out of ur tigers fury so u turn 60 engery into double since u pay half the price of ur moves. and it is 530 in the morning here and havent went to bed for the night so i actually hope some of this makes sense

[Swiftly]

Just look at the various simulations made by me and other theorycrafter on the Elitist Jerks Forum. http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t26297-d...scussion/p106/

With that spec you have 100% mitigation and only the LoP self-heal out and 2% more dmg if you don't have a warr doing demo shout. As for cat you lose about 8% dps giving up, Feral Aggression, ImpMangle and Master Shapeshifter.

i assume you was referencing to
http://elitistjerks.com/920539-post2645.html
first thing i like to point out is that there are using 2 sets of gear for each of the 3 specs and shown in cat form, bear form (inf rage & rage starved) also Full Cat spec was #1 in DPS & TPS with cat gear or bear gear but hybrid did have the best tanking points only in bear equipment... your stated hybrid build is NOT #1 in mitigation / threat / cat dps.. tanking points show no value for mitigation / avoidance levels just assumed to be best based on values set by tester.

in all cases highest TPS does not have infected wounds and this is also not needed for tanking in PvE. recommend drop unless you want to MT and still have some PvP variable. BUT in all cases of high DPS / TPS Imp Mangle was a factor... also to make full use of king of the jungle in bear form intensity is a must have.

in good raid situation Imp LotP isnt as needed unless soloing or having weak healers... but then people would say why go on a raid with weak healers... either way this is opinion based either you like it or you dont.

Feral charge is what makes druids one of the best recovery against knock backs. sure this is more situational then anything else but people dont realize that feral charge is really useful in any spec may it be dps or tank. you can charge down runners. or just keep it on reserve. not to mention cat charge is now in play.

My spec with out Imp LotP
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

personally i would go with this spec as a Main Tank / Off Dps. but this is just me. if i wanted imp LotP i would take 2 points from Rend & Tear.

i would go with this spec for more DPS / Off Tank (possible MT with good gear)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

also i like to point out in most Rend & Tear testing that i have seen was always rank 4/5. sure also natural reaction does make up the lost of dodge from 415 def and the rage back per dodge is nice, but this isnt needed for Main Tanking because usually the boss will hit you hard enough to never be rage starved. rage starve usually comes form lower level mobs. also if your in a lower form of instance you should swap out your tanking rings / neck / trinkets / cloak / weapon for your dps stuff the rest of the armor should be the same for both tanking & dps... lower form of instances does NOT require high mitigation or avoidance...

[Furo]

I would go with this spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

Tho it's quite similar to yours, it skips Intensity. Once I get more expertise by gear, I will move points from Primal Precision to Imp. LotP so I can offer a better raid buff than fury warriors.

But about Intensity, can you explain why it is needed to use KotJ properly?

[Swiftly]

I would go with this spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

Tho it's quite similar to yours, it skips Intensity. Once I get more expertise by gear, I will move points from Primal Precision to Imp. LotP so I can offer a better raid buff than fury warriors.

But about Intensity, can you explain why it is needed to use KotJ properly?

enrage gives 5 rage per tick for 5 ticks total... keep in mind that enrage gives ZERO initial rage for this. which mean you lose the time it takes from use of enrage to the first tick. this comes into play alot when you shift into bear form and then use enrage to charge in. furor only gives enough rage to charge leaving you with ZERO rage to use while 5 rage isnt much to use for one tick you have to relay on auto swing and maybe 1-2 ticks of enrage to use an ability... intensity just gives you 10 initial rage for enrage. which makes it easier to build rage from nothing also making use of the damage increase from king of the jungle.

if enraged is used mid-fight where you have rage to start off with then intensity isnt needed as much then at the start of a pull. as long as you dont use enrage with intensity with more then 90 rage you dont lose out on the 10 initial rage. making full use to as many abilities as possible before you go rage starved maximizing damage output with king of the jungle

[Furo]

Well, I think I wont use Enrage that much while tanking, only on magic dmg or when i got more than enough armor for a boss.
Using it with Intensity for a fast bonus rage sounds good, but so far I've never needed it and used Enrage only before/between pulls to stack up more rage.
Besides that, after a charge you still got growl and if growl gets resisted you got Bash or AoE taunt if needed, or even FFF since it does dmg/threat now. Also, the armor reduction while using enrage and the 15% bonus dmg you deal should provide you with enough rage to not be starving while enraged.

[camy011]

Here's mine:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

If you arn't needed to tank for a boss you will be using a mangle rotation. This isn't as terrible now since they buffed mangle to be closer to shred damage. It will also be easier to keep savage roar and rip up since you get more combo points with mangle spamming.

If you want to solo as cat then your rotation would be faerie fire pull->mangle->mangle->mangle->F-Bite
Basically a build with improved mangle is what you want.

With Improved LotP you should have full mana between pulls to do a quick heal.

I wouldn't let any druid into my raid without Improved LotP... Not only is it great in live but it is now going to be raid wide providing even more benefit. With 30k life you will be getting a free 1200 heal every 8 or so seconds. It is worth it just for your tanking benefit not to mention all the melee in the raid.

Don't forget it will be more effective to farm in bear farm now. Swipe hits infinite targets and you will have full mitigation for doing this well.

[Laser]

My build as of Build 9038: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...00000000000000

I'll run a few things down, I notice a lot of variation in some of your tanking builds. Some of you aim for a wide variety of builds such as High Threat, OT, Mitigation, etc.

I have had a great experience with the build above as a MT.

Imp LotP is a must when bear tanks hit Naxx and so on, when we start pushing a health pool of 30k or more, we are recieving more then 1.2k heals on out critical hits, this is by far to much to pass by and can end up saving us.

PotP is a must have tanking talent, not only does it increase our overall AP/threat, we are granted damage reduction just for having people in our party (reminder that the dmg reduction is not only physical, but reduces magic dmg as well).

Imp Mangle is not a must for tanking, however a simple 3 points in it can give us a large DPS/threat gain.

Rend and Tear is also a talent which is not needed for tanking, however it is through this way, we gain back our mangle debuff which blizz in all their glory has robbed us of. Once again, a large DPS/threat improvement.

KotJ in my opinion is a complete waste as a tank, the simple fact that we have to use Enrage to gain a 15% damage debuff at the expense of losing armor is not worth it, I could use those 3 points and put them in a talent that gives a passive damage increase.

Feral Instinct was one of the hardest talents to lose in my build, not only does it increase one of our few multi-tanking skills, but it increases our stealth. I based the loss of this talent around the fact that I might have a Paladin or a DK tanking with me when I hit the 10-mans up. I figured that the 30% extra damage for a skill that hardly does any damage to begin with was not a huge loss, and those extra talents could go to something more useful.

Predatory Instincts was the other talent which was very difficult to part with, however, I figured the 10% increased critical damage, which is a great talent for DPS/threat generation, could go into something better. In my opinion, this was not as big of a loss as Feral Instinct, but it will still be dearly missed.

Infected Wounds could very well be the best thing Blizzard did for us furries. The 20% reduced attack speed is simply put, a necessity to end game raiding. There is nothing anyone can say that will change this. This talent is a must.

Natural Shapeshifter was filled out to get to Master Shapeshifter.

Master Shapeshifter was one of the talents that many of the points taken out of other talents to fulfill. The passive 4% increased damage is better then increased swipe or critical damage, and simply put, does not require us to crit or use swipe.

Like I said earlier, this build has worked best for me, I do however see a lot of promising builds in this topic that will serve many of you well in WotLK. Feral has had a major overhaul and will hopefully remain the tank of choice, no matter whan build you choose.

If anyone has any other questions about this build, feel free to post or message me.