I love how no one in beta complained about ret until...

[Dødogpine]

The funny thing about this is that ret paladins just dont understand that they are overpowered. I'm having problems breathing reading the preemptive posts with paladins claiming to be balanced without supplying any proof or understanding of the basic mechanics behind the game.


Burst =! DPS idiots. Less burst, more dps.

[robwat]

When I get home from class I'm gonna make a video of me ganking tailor-geared clothies on the daily isle, with my cat druid.

OMG I KILL PEOPLE THAT HAVE 800 ARMOR WITH FAERIE FIRE


I'm overpowered now, nerfbat right?

Honestly, some of the posts I see on this forum while I'm trying to see if there's any updates to the beta or PTR are the biggest pieces of trash I've ever seen. Stop wasting everyone's time with shit that nobody cares about, or that isn't even an issue once you get into the real level 80 pvp.

[Thumos]

The funny thing about this is that ret paladins just dont understand that they are overpowered. I'm having problems breathing reading the preemptive posts with paladins claiming to be balanced without supplying any proof or understanding of the basic mechanics behind the game.


Burst =! DPS idiots. Less burst, more dps.

Lol supply proof that they are OP. There has not been even a single Beta build that has not had some crazy bug that causes insane damage for Ret, so in other words we have never even seen a bug free retadin yet. But hey keep being a sad little man and trying to nerf a historically weak class just because your a pathetic coward who is afraid of little competition.

[blupp74]

I played a total of 30 minutes with my retri pala on the PTR.
I didn't do any duelling at all, so I can't say much about that.

What I DID do was to fly to Shadowmoon Valley, because I wanted to test my pala against the lvl 72 elites that wander around the mobs outside Black Temple.

Now, I solo these elites with my feral druid, bearform and tank gear.
Usually I'm around 80% health when I'm done, but this is with ~18k HP and ~20k armor.

I just wanted to see how my PTR pala would stand against those elites.

Well, I fought one...and by mistake pulled 2 other mobs aswell (non-elites).

30 seconds later they were all dead, and I was at full mana and 80% hp.
One Flash of Light later, I was at 100% HP.

Is this OP? Don't know...because I have no idea how other classes are doing in this type of situation.
And as I said, I didn't do any duelling.

What I can say is this: If Blizzard decides to nerf us, I'm still ok with it, depending on the depth of the nerf.
Because even if we have reduced damage output, we still have a totally fixed mana regeneration, and an extra attack (that heals us a little to boot), and a Judgment of Command that FINALLY scales with attack power, making it actually worthwhile to judge.

The problem live today is that retribution paladins have very little variety in what they can do.
DPS-wise it's basically just putting up Seal of Command, spamming Crusader strike and hoping SoC will proc.
Judging is pointless, as average damage it does for me is around ~300, and a crit is around ~700 dmg.
I usually judge anyway, because...hey, I might get lucky...and if it crits it won't feel TOTALLY wasted...plus just spamming CS is boooooooring.

The fix for retribution paladins, as I see it, is not the upped damage, but the fact that it's finally more fun to play, there are finally some more options, and we now also have a decent CC.

[Bewbslól]

ok mr. im too dumb to get s3 shoulders and instead take t6 so everyone think im imba.

yeah i know too many words for you :-\

*Cries* Now that was harsh! Made me cry IRL

[NydusTemplar]

Seal of Command always scaled with Attack Power, by the way, because it was 70% of Weapon Damage, which in and of itself scales with attack power.

Yes, big post, hopeful most will actually read. TLR as you will.

Historically, Retribution Paladins have always recieved something, real or percieved, as overpowered, and then began the long march of nerfs, which sometimes were not even nerfs because we deserved them, but because it was used to make someone else incredibly strong. So essentially, we've constantly recieved the fallout of more than just our own balance concerns.

So here we are, on the edge of a second expansion, and why is it that I see the same thing as the first? Once again, we've been handed something we needed, desperately, for a long time, and the moment it falls into our hands, there's outrage over it, because now we're a threat. People who, for the longest time, didn't need to deal with us, could ignore us or simply laugh in our face, now need to actually care about that Repentance and Hammer heading their way. Now we don't need to be girded in the most powerful gear, supported by a Shaman's Totem, to unleash potent force, and the game once again isn't ready.

Is it the actual game, the mechanics, the numbers, the true gameplay? No, its the community. When the Burning Crusade came out, the game was barely ready for useful Shadow Priests, Bear Tanks, and Protection Paladins, and there was an uproar. And now this expansion has seen the attempt to make every class, every spec, not only usable, but reasonable. And its a difficult transition.

Warriors weren't ready to have other MTs before BC. But thankfully the good and reasonable have accepted the trade for having Fury & Arms as alternatives(though they certainly took their sweet time delivering Fury to you guys).

And there will always be the people who can't change, who won't change, who laughed at Vampiric Touch, who sneered at Prot Pallies/Bear Tanks, and who refused to give a Ret the common courtesy of being treated as a fellow player, instead literally treating them like garbage.

Alot of specs can sympathize with Ret. And we all should've been pushing for balance, and some still are. Survival Hunters were broken, so were Protection Paladins in the WK builds, and balance was attempted.

But the bottom line is that some of us are fighting against this absurd notion that we're the most powerful class in the game, totally unstoppable like juggernauts of raw OP, because the result of what Blizzard will do to us.

Most likely it won't be balance, it will probably be a terrible, terrible blow to our ability to have a chance to do what the other specs & classes will be able to do, participate effectively in the game.

Are we overpowered? I do not have a level 80 in crafted PvP gear, I cannot answer that question.

Are we overpowered at 70? Its a tough call. With the new changes, we are certainly far, far stronger than we've ever been, enough to be not just a credible threat in melee, but a lethal one. Between myself and a solid hunter, its a fair fight, with both of us blowing every trick in the book, and it goes either way. When I'm against a good mage, or a fair warlock, the battle can be over almost before it begins.

Against rogues I've got a fair shot, but its usually close if they are good. I do beat warriors into the ground, but I don't do it with a two hander, I do it with a sword & shield, as I always have. I haven't had a chance to duel many experienced Feral Druids on the PTR, and the few Shaman that I've fought thought that they could simply outburst me.

That is a perfect example of what mindset we're talking about here, Paladins have always been about burst damage first and foremost, and there are classes out there who think they should have the raw burst power to drop us straight away. Realize that there were Enh Shaman in 2v2 that were 1 handed windfury procing for 1500 damage non-crit, that was, at the time, as big as one of my crits.

The point I'm trying to make here is that Paladins have always had the right tools for the job of taking on melee classes, like warriors, and Enh shaman, but never the right set up for those tools. Now that we've got them, the classes won't adjust to understand that they've got another class to worry about. Is it okay? I don't know. An arms warrior certainly doesn't like having another player that can smack him around, but that's the price you pay, because when you are combined with a compentant healer, you destroy other classes.

Its my honest hope that Blizzard will actually come thru. But this looks like its heading exactly the same way that Crusader Strike in 2.0 did, and we're going to have to once again pick ourselves up and try to rally for actual balance with all these people, who love to hate us, shouting us down.

So once again, I'll state this. I don't honestly think any Retribution Paladin in this game who actually knows what he's doing is opposed to balance.

But most of us know exactly what kind of deal we're going to get from the so-called "balance", a nerf bat wedged someplace uncomfortably and left there for a long, long time, before being removed and replaced with a slightly smaller one, 'til the next expansion where it'll be completely removed, we'll get a nice treat, then they'll use a tree trunk to start the process over again, because it just won't be as effect with the normal nerf bat.

All I'm saying is that if you truly, truly think that we're overpowered for valid reasons other than "I can't beat you like I can beat everyone else", than you'll fight just as hard to undo the damage that will envitably occur when the attempt at 'balance' occurs. But we'll see, maybe all of this will be doomsaying, and Blizzard will finally come thru. However, I'm not holding my breath. I'm preparing for the new fight which is getting very, very old.

[Old Coot]

Lol supply proof that they are OP.

I don't know if it's "proof", but dev seem to think so. Todays blue post...

"Retribution paladins
I can't imagine too many people think that DKs (Unholy I presume) and Ret Pallys are balanced. We won't leave things like that. (Source)"

Like it or not, nerfbat coming.

[dadou131988]

This post was an aswer on the BETA forums, which have NOTHING to do with ptr

Plus, she was answering to a worried hunter posting about every other class outDPS'ing them in PVE


Move along, nothing to see here