What would be fun with the new on-crit DoT: A truly good idea

[PalliesThrowStuff]

So, I think the major concern with the new DoT effect on crits from certain abilities, is that if we crit again right away, we'll lose out on a large chunk of damage, as compared to crits which are instant, and Divine Storm doing holy, which is, again, instant.

With the new DoT being our compensation for the DS nerf, as well as a replacement for extra crit damage, it's going to be something we really need to be competitive in PvE DPS, but over-critting will make it significantly less useful than the old setup. Ret can't afford a PvE nerf, period.

Crusader Strike, is also in need of a secondary effect to make it more 'fun' to use.

My suggestion: Add the following secondary effect to Crusader Strike -- Consumes any damage over time effects you have on the target, causing them to deal all of their remaining damage instantly.

Why? This has two effects, one, it prevents over-critting from making the DoT useless, as you'd be getting the full effect of the DoT at least once every 6 seconds. The second effect, is that it synergizes with Seal of Vengeance/Corruption, but because it consumes them, it requires you stack them back up, which would probably put SoV back into competition with SoB, because let's face it, not everyone wants to cut themselves to do DPS.

The only immediate downside I see, is that I'm not sure the code exists anywhere in the game to track how much damage a DoT has 'left' based on the duration. This might be a little hairy to code. Also it might put too much burst back into place, because you could potentially apply the DoT and then consume it within your first cycle, some preventative measure would have to be in place to prevent that.

[Montoya]

Druids can prematurely end their HOT's to grant a full burst of Healing, why can't they do it with a DOT?
Don't warlocks have a DOT that if it's dispelled early it automatically hits the affected player for the remaining amount?

I think the code is there. What I'm seeing here is that if they are making it so that DOT's can crit, that the new Paladin DOT effect will still be useful. What I don't like about it is that Warlocks will now become as OP'd as they were before. But this isn't a Warlock QQ thread.

A 'Dotadin' might be a viable spec in the future. Seal of Corruption is a solid Seal that's not bursty at all, has a Dot that ticks for a good amount, and is guaranteed damage as opposed to the Seal of Casino hit/miss burst damage.

[Offhand]

Druids can prematurely end their HOT's to grant a full burst of Healing, why can't they do it with a DOT?
Don't warlocks have a DOT that if it's dispelled early it automatically hits the affected player for the remaining amount?

Yes but the *dotted* player needs to remove the effect not the lock.

[Panoramixe]

He's talking about swiftmend. Too bad he's a bit outdated with glyphs, we now have a great one that doesn't remove the hot anymore yet still heals for the same amount.

[Uhuuu]

Druids can prematurely end their HOT's to grant a full burst of Healing, why can't they do it with a DOT?
Don't warlocks have a DOT that if it's dispelled early it automatically hits the affected player for the remaining amount?

Yes swiftmend and UA will do damage/heal if prematurely removed but it gives an equal amount of damage/healing whether it is 1 second left of the dot/hot or 10..
As the op says I don't think that exact code is in the game, but then again it could just increase the damage of crusaderstrike by x amount and consume the dot, instead of the amount of damage remaining

[Maker]

Don't warlocks have a DOT that if it's dispelled early it automatically hits the affected player for the remaining amount?

You're thinking of Unstable Affliction, and it doesn't work the way you think. It's a dot with an IF. If the dot is free to run it's course, then the target will only take the dot damage. If someone dispels UA, then the dispeller will take the nuke. The nuke is a set amount and is not affected by how much time is remaining on the dot.

In case you're thinking about Seed of Corruption, that will always detonate at a fixed damage threshold. Once the target takes that much damage (regardless of source), it will detonate.

Conflag will use up an Immolate, but that doesn't add the remaining dot damage to the nuke either.

I've probably missed something else, but as far as I'm aware of, locks don't have a "Swiftmend" version of a dot.

[Offhand]

Consuming a dot when CS hits? That would be some crazy awesome burst damage! ...oh wait.

I'm guessing the dot will be more along the lines of a larger amount of damage done, but over a 10-12 second span.

[ishy]

Why not just make it multiple dots? as in first crit = dot 1, if you crit during its duration = new dot so 2 dots running etc?

[annerajb]

codewise i am 99.9% sure this is doable from the description it seems as deaht knight spells :P so yeah prob can be done.

[Dyo]

not gonna happen
such effect would cr8 burst dmg simply and this is what blizz wants to reduce

[PalliesThrowStuff]

not gonna happen
such effect would cr8 burst dmg simply and this is what blizz wants to reduce

Not neccessarily, you would still have to have the DoT running, and THEN CS. This wouldn't be too hard, you crit a Judgement or Divine Storm before CS, which yes, could create some impressive burst damage, but guess what?

It's still less burst, less often than the flat crit talents we have now.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

Why not just make it multiple dots? as in first crit = dot 1, if you crit during its duration = new dot so 2 dots running etc?

That would also solve the problem, thing is, nothing else in the game works like -that- either. If a Warrior crits twice in a row, he doesn't get two deep wounds going at the same time.

The alternative that Blizzard is most likely to go with, though, is to simply make the DoT an extremely short duration like 2-3 seconds, so that the probability of over-refreshing it is low, the problem there is the same as with my idea, though, it's not really solving the burst damage, just putting a minute delay in there.

[Tigercat]

Or just make it tick once per second, so it's like deep wounds. Hell, they could even say it's going to be similar to deep wounds.




Wait a second...

[awwsk1t]

I like the idea "if dispelled, does x damage"

So it's applied like Deep Wounds, ticks like a DoT and then if dispelled hits them for something fierce, so they only have themselves to blame if they get a sudden burst.

I like it............alot


another thought I was having about paladin dps, what if it was increased while they were in the aoe range of their own Consecrate. For pve this would be good since the fight shouldn't move too much. In pvp paladins would have to reapply consecrate and since the elimination of downranking it would consume some mana. Maybe add a talent to give consecrate a slowing effect........somwhat addressing the paladins complains of not having a way to close distance?

Just some random thoughts. I do like that "Seed of Retribution" though

[PalliesThrowStuff]

Or just make it tick once per second, so it's like deep wounds. Hell, they could even say it's going to be similar to deep wounds.




Wait a second...

Check your scope, I think you're missing the point.

It doesn't matter how often it ticks, if it ticks every second, but has an 8 second duration, I'm going to see less than half of the DoT's damage before it's refreshed.

Let's take a stab at the change, it's an increase in total damage over the 25% extra crit damage, so let's go with 40% of crit damage as a DoT served over 8 seconds, a significant buff if you dont stop to think about it.

If I crit with DS, and then 3 seconds later, crit with CS, even ticking once per second, I'd see 15% of the extra damage, which is less damage than I'd be getting with the extra crit damage. DS/CS/Judgement occur on average once every 3 seconds, which means the DoT would have to be 25% of crit damage dealt in DoT form before the 3 second mark to even AVERAGE out with the current talent.

And this is SUPPOSED to be compensating for the DS nerf to where our overall DPS doesn't change. Unless there's some quirky new angle on the DoT that we're not getting, like a freakishly short duration (Which seems to defeat the purpose), it's not going to do what they think it is.

Here's to hoping they give it sufficient testing.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

I like the idea "if dispelled, does x damage"

So it's applied like Deep Wounds, ticks like a DoT and then if dispelled hits them for something fierce, so they only have themselves to blame if they get a sudden burst.

I like it............alot


another thought I was having about paladin dps, what if it was increased while they were in the aoe range of their own Consecrate. For pve this would be good since the fight shouldn't move too much. In pvp paladins would have to reapply consecrate and since the elimination of downranking it would consume some mana. Maybe add a talent to give consecrate a slowing effect........somwhat addressing the paladins complains of not having a way to close distance?

Just some random thoughts. I do like that "Seed of Retribution" though

Not quite what I had in mind, but also a reasonable idea.

I was aiming more for an offensive form of Lifebloom.

Special Abilities crit > Trigger a Holy DoT

CS > Consumes DoT and causes the remaining damage up-front. This is burstier than leaving the DoT, but has less of a chance of going to waste due to over-refreshing the duration. Would ideally also consume Blood Corruption/Holy Vengeance from their respective DoT Seals, making those two seals potentially viable for Retribution's use. Again, not everyone wants to be an emodin.

[omglazor]

I have an idea: add MS effect to Crusader Strike.
Then you will have: MS, Whirlwind, Deep Wounds...

[XtreO]

I quite like your idea about Consecrate having a slow effect. I don't like how the slow effect would be talented. Atm Consecrate is a lackluster spell for Ret paladin and it doesn't do a hell of a lot for Holy Paladins then added damage. Once someone moves out of Consecrate they no longer take damage so yes this could work every well.

The slow effect should be able to be dispelled and will not be refreshed till the next Consecrate. This would give time for players to react and at lest get better viability from the spell for Holy and Ret paladins. This also would support as a Defense/support tool as well in pvp and pve.

God damn i love this idea !

This would be great because then the dot would have a base spell that support it.

2 thumbs up for coming up with that idea.

As for having the Righteous Vengeance dot doing more damage to the caster that dispels it with some burst damage i like as well and works like a Warlocks UA.

It would really question a player that has been hit by Consecrate and Righteous Vengeance. "Do i say in the aoe longer and take the damage or do i have enough Hp to remove this dot?"

You do realise all AoE slow-spells with lasting effect on the area (like that gay huntar trap) to date all stops working when you move out of it?

[Offhand]

Slow effect would need to be talented. One of prot's main tools is consecration and the slow effect would make it ridiculously easy to deal with runners.

[dudewheresmydk]

consecration slow idea is epic, if it ever goes live.

OR: Crusader strike passive ability: whenever your crusader strike hits, you gain the holy grasp effect, causing your next consecration to cost 100% more mana but slows enemy targets by 40% (or some other percentages) that are affected
This way our so-called "unlimited mana" may not be unlimited anymore, and hence giving other classes a chance to run us oom (or try to).

IF the new on-crit dot is like ignite for mages then that'd be pretty epic because ignites stack (internally).