Tanking Help. (Long Post)

[Mikki]

Ok. So I am a mage as Main. I love playing a mage and if things go as they seem to be i will retire my mage from PvE and he can spend his time eating people up in PvP. Funny how things work cos i rolled my Druid to be my PvP as I thought i would never be able to use my mage. Now i dont think Druids will be to usefull in PvP once at 80 and Boomkins are a little more balanced.

Anyway I am Offtopic in my own post.

So I am now going to use this Druid as a Resto as i never liked tanking. NOW I have had to tank to get instances doen through 40 to 65 and found it rather enjoyable so want to do both at 80. I now have Lacerate and kinda stuck for what i think is the best rotation. I did some practice on Ring of Blood Q tanking for various groups that came along and struggled for what was the BEST rotation. I held agro fine but want to know what is best TPS for when I am in harder content.

Before Lacerate it was..........
FFF (to Pull)-
Maul (push as they were halfway to me for an immediate hit)
Demo Roar
Mangle

Now here it depends on how many targets. If more than 2 I would enrage and Swipe as Rage allowed refreshing Mangle, FF or Demo if needed. 2 or less i would Maul (glyphed) It worked for me and i help aggro well enough, As the main target got to 20% i would move to next and stack FFF, Mangle and such.

SO now i have Lacerate, I didnt have any problems holding agro without it but i assume in later content my threat generation will need to be higher and Lacerate is for that?

So is it a simple. FFF-Maul-Demo-Mangle-Lacerate x 5 and keep both lacerate and mangle debuff ticking while Maul OR Swipe depending on how many targets?

I dont use CC on dungeons as it pointless and just lowers the amount of rage I generate. I have been told having alot of Rage generates more threat but never seen anything to prove this so if someone could explane this i would be happy.

Basically I have decided i want to tank and want to know everything about it beyondd the Basic.

Sry for long post

[xebtria]

3 makros

/cast mangle - bear
/cast !maul


/cast lacerate
/cast !maul


/cast swipe
/cast !maul



pull with powershift + enrage, wait for 30/40 rage (depending on spec)
FFF

makro #1
makro #2 until 5 stacks of lacerate, then makro #3. refresh lacerate with makro #2 before it drops.
yes, swipe even on single targets.


you're done.

regards
xeb

[Mikki]

Yes i tend to use Maul as it add to auto attacks and isnt an instant indiviuel attack like others but I didnt think to Macro it...ty i will from now on.

I undertsand the Swipe even on single targets. Cos Its works in addition to Maul but are you saying when Mangle is off CD I should choose Swipe>Mangle?

And is Demo Roar pointless then? And does the amount of Rage i have in my Rage bar have any effect on how much Threat i generate?

TY for your reply though full of healpfull stuff

[Koumaru]

Demoralizing Roar is anything but pointless; it's a significant boost to your survivability. It's a joke for threat, though, so just keep it renewed on your target(s) whenever it's about to fall off and rely on Swipe and glyphed Maul for your actual threat while AoE tanking.

The amount of rage you have in your bar does not increase your threat. Rage generated from sources other than dealing or receiving damage, however, generates threat on everything in combat with you (sorry, I don't remember how much). So when you Enrage during combat (which is not the suicidal move so many people make it out to be -- if you need the extra rage during a fight, chances are very good that you're not taking enough damage that the brief loss in armor is going to get you killed) or gain rage from a critical hit or a dodge (via feral talents), you receive additional threat for it. It's not a modifier to your overall threat output; it's just raw additional threat for each point of rage as you generate it. Think of it as healing aggro from a HoT on yourself -- it's very similar to that.

[mgp84]

Demoralizing Roar has its uses, but to be honest, very limited. It does get knocked off if a warrior has the improved version, and spending points into our improved version is pretty pointless.
What you basically want to work at to become a good tank (please correct me if I am wrong) is awareness. As a druid, threat will come in naturally (I myself let the white hits roll on farming BT runs a few months back), but what I believe to be a good tank is those who think ahead of time: when are timers breaking? What amount of threat does every no-good DPSer have on every target you are tanking? In 5 and 10 mans, Feral Charge + Bash always saves a healer in an AoE pull.
As to single target threat, Swipe CAN be better then Lacerate BUT usually this comes in at T6 level with the 4 piece set bonus. The spell simply scales better is all. Before that you should always stick to Maul / Lacerate spamming, as its base threat integers are rather large TBH.
For single target threat, I always pull with FFF+Maul+Mangle. This alone will give you the "snap" aggro that bears are infamous for. IMO it is our signerature.

Finally, this is our bible:
http://www.codeplex.com/Rawr/Release...eleaseId=18821
Use it wisely!

[Mikki]

Demoralizing Roar is anything but pointless; it's a significant boost to your survivability. It's a joke for threat, though, so just keep it renewed on your target(s) whenever it's about to fall off and rely on Swipe and glyphed Maul for your actual threat while AoE tanking.

The amount of rage you have in your bar does not increase your threat. Rage generated from sources other than dealing or receiving damage, however, generates threat on everything in combat with you (sorry, I don't remember how much). So when you Enrage during combat (which is not the suicidal move so many people make it out to be -- if you need the extra rage during a fight, chances are very good that you're not taking enough damage that the brief loss in armor is going to get you killed) or gain rage from a critical hit or a dodge (via feral talents), you receive additional threat for it. It's not a modifier to your overall threat output; it's just raw additional threat for each point of rage as you generate it. Think of it as healing aggro from a HoT on yourself -- it's very similar to that.

Ok, So its based on Threat generated during the combat NOT threat sat in my bar. I thought the having threat thing sounded like BS.

Ok. I think I an ready. Nice work guys, I will continue to read the thread to see if anyother beauties are added.

[Gardak]

Thing with Maul is it uses lots of Rage, so generally i wouldnt start a fight with it less i starve myself atthe beginning and lose aggro.

Generally pull with FFF, Mangle, Lacerate, then Maul if im getting a good supply of rage. Once im up and running ill use Maul lots, also getting the glyph that makes maul hit an extra target is very nice. I personally dont use swipe unless tanking multiple targets, tho it is lovely

And I totally agree about awareness, I think its a tanks greatest asset, make sure you knowwhats going on all the time, not just with yourself but other group/raid members, if they are hitting somethign you narturally have less aggro on they will probly pull, and you will be there straight away to intercept.

[Koumaru]

Kudos on the situational awareness post, mgp84. It's so often taken for granted and so seldom discussed but that alertness and fast reaction time is what makes the difference between a good tank and a bad one.

Anyone can tank a single target by spamming a cast sequence macro and do just fine; a good tank is watching everything waiting for something to go wrong: someone pulling aggro on another mob (because he/she can't be bothered to follow the kill order), an incoming patrol, etc.

Oh, to the OP:

If you don't already do so, I recommend hitting V and getting used to playing with a bunch of red bars on your screen. It makes clicking through targets (rather than tabbing) quite easy, and if you see an OT target's health take a big drop suddenly, it's a good sign someone is focusing it and may be about to pull it off of you, so you can switch to it and give it a good smack, or at least be ready to taunt it when it turns around.

[xebtria]

I personally dont use swipe unless tanking multiple targets, tho it is lovely

talented, swipe does more TPS than the initial dmg of lacerate. at least if you have the T6 set bonus, but also without.
just stack lacerate to 5 and refresh it in time, between just swipe.
except for full green/blue bears, but since the patch it should be no problem to get a little base of attackpower on your tankgear, and then it is better than lacerate.

and btw... wtf actually is cc?

:P

[Mikki]

Crowd Control mate. I dont let me mages sheep and such as i like to be beaten up on as it generates more rage and = more Swipes

OFC i use CC if its needed but with the new talents in BC non heroic content up to lvl 70 i havnt needed it at all.

[xebtria]

I knew what CC is. it was just my try to state that it isn't needed actually anymore ;D

[Mikki]

I knew what CC is. it was just my try to state that it isn't needed actually anymore ;D

LMAO. I suppose i beter run back to the mage forum whee i know what i am talking about and can spot sarcasm when its being used

Anyway. Another quick question....

SO talented Swipe does more TPS that Lacerate? yes?

But. With a 5 stack of lacerate and Mangle running surely not? Also. What about Total Rage spent to Generate threat?? Once you have a 5 stack of lacerate running the Rage spent to keep that up is far less than the rage spent to keep swiping.
I think your original, macro, reply is more what i like as it is more Rage to Threat efficiant IMO.

[xebtria]

SO talented Swipe does more TPS that Lacerate? yes?

yes. at least with a base of AP. pre-3.0 I think there was a formula - if you have more than 2200 ap, use swipe, if not, use lacerate. buffed, without any procs or on-use-effects.

But. With a 5 stack of lacerate and Mangle running surely not?

yes. because lacerate does always the same amount of thread, regardless how much stacks are applied. the fact, that a 5-stacked lacerate should be always up, cannot be denied, this should be out of any question. but if you have this 5-stack, simple renew it any then and now and spam swipe instead in between.

What about Total Rage spent to Generate threat?? Once you have a 5 stack of lacerate running the Rage spent to keep that up is far less than the rage spent to keep swiping.
I think your original, macro, reply is more what i like as it is more Rage to Threat efficiant IMO.

there are no rage problems.

however, if there are some (e.g. if you get not hit at all for a quite amount of time), simply bind a fourth button with lacerate only and only press this button. if you have the aggro with a little headstart, this produces more than enough aggro to not loose it until you have rage again.