Protection paladin FAQ

[Deleted]

Betrayer's Choker
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39655

Just got that last night, quite an excellent neck. I am still using the Panzar'thar chest because of the 3 gem sockets it has, thanks to those it still gives better stats than any of the Northrend blue ones I've gotten yet, even though it has ~400ish less armor. Oh, and it looks good on my char

As a sidenote, I have to say I love SotR. My DPS increased by about 150 when I got it, so that says already something. Looking at Recount while I've been leveling my SotR does 26-30 percent of all damage, HotR doing only 16-20 percent.

For those of you who wanna get some easy and very good tanking gear I suggest doing all the quests up and until the group quest in Grizzly Hills, you'll get a darn good shield. The quest requires lvl 74. And in Zul'Drak you get an excellent 1h tank mace from one Wanted! quest. The elite is easily soloable, and again requires lvl 74.

[Kuismar]

If you have to many things to press and to little space on for it were you preffer to have your hand on the keyboard, there is a few macros that makes it wery easy to to keep tanking rotation going and at the same time save space.

/castsequence reset=3 Shield of Righteousness, Hammer of the Righteous, Hammer of Wrath

/castsequence reset=3 Holy Shield, Consecration

/castsequence reset=3 Judgment of the Light, Avenging Shield

you can make many more then those, and free up valuble space on your keyboard, while making it a lot easyer to keep good tanking rotations going. the "reset=3" is that the macro will reset after 3 seconds, and can be changed after how you preffer it, its just the way i found most usfull. you can also reset the time it will be reset by pressing it again, while GCD isnt ready to avoid it to reset when you dont want to.

If you want one that will make it posible to spam one button only, you can add a full round of what rotation you preffer, an d just smash that one while you worry about other things.

Side note: many say they preffer to use judgment of wisdom, but honestly guys, if you are getting many problems you are getting overgeared, and just need to pull more mobs. Some times bosses can be anying yes, but on trash groups and chainpulling, the healing aggro that you get from judgment of the light is far superior then the treat you can make from the extra mana, this being 2 reasons: 1 you shouldnt have manaissues, you should pull more, and 2, the constant small heals will make sure you get the initial aggro of mobs most the times, not the healer whos keeping you alive.

Forgive spelling mistakes, not able to logg wow atm to check if if this is how i wrote the macros, but its more or less it.

I would think /castrandom would be a better option, esp if you are making a single button spam macro. ie;

/castrandom Shield of Righteousness, Hammer of the Righteous, Hammer of Wrath, Holy Shield, Consecration, Judgment of the Light, Avenging Shield

it basically blows each skill as it is ready. I'm not saying that is the right order would prob want to make sure its in the 96969 order.

[Lazybean]

great thread, i just have one question about fear/stuns. i never see anyone talent Stoicism or unyielding faith. I run mostly heroics and hopefully 10mans (Work and family prevent fixed raiding schedules). Too many times i get feared or stund and can not block/dodge/parry, so i take huge amounts of damage. the new human racial helps, but by the time i use it i've already taken a lot of damage.

Most of my experiance with this issue was in TBC. just hit 80 yesterday, and need to respec to clean up my build, so any thoughts would help.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

I specd into kings, just cause the healer and DPs i was lvling with, kept bitching about it.

[Deleted]

great thread, i just have one question about fear/stuns. i never see anyone talent Stoicism or unyielding faith. I run mostly heroics and hopefully 10mans (Work and family prevent fixed raiding schedules). Too many times i get feared or stund and can not block/dodge/parry, so i take huge amounts of damage. the new human racial helps, but by the time i use it i've already taken a lot of damage.

Most of my experiance with this issue was in TBC. just hit 80 yesterday, and need to respec to clean up my build, so any thoughts would help.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

I specd into kings, just cause the healer and DPs i was lvling with, kept bitching about it.

One suggestion: do not leave Redoubt out. It increases your block value by 30% which is huge, and as such it also increases damage done by ShotR by almost as much! Prot paladins are built around high block value.

If you really insist on having Stoicism, Unyielding faith AND BoK then go for something like http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=000000000000 , you only lose 4% in armor value this way and get everything you wanted. I personally won't spec into Stoicism/Unyielding faith until I run into enough fights where I find it necessary. So far I have met only one boss which does stun (Azjol-Nerub last boss).

[Dreamkeeper]

my points so far is

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=121300060504

and I have one lil point left i should ding 80 today or tomorrow and thinking 1 pt in Stocism Still debating where to put the lil girl

[Kerrain]

Folk are over looking what is a important one too. Guardian's Favor. When doing trash in Hyjall after the pot nerf this was essential. The extension of the time for hand of freedom really helps and I must say I don't think its the last instance bliz will do with waves of trash that can do knock downs and stuns on us.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

Is my Current build

I took BoK because in 10mans their is no guarantee of you having another pally to do it. Also the raid wide use is very good. Same reason to HoC that 3% extra crit helps the raid. After all its not just about my personal performance but how do I help out the raid as a whole. This did mean no to Stoicism and One handed expertise but I think the over all trade off is worth it.

[deebee]

That is actually one hand weapon spec, not expertise and it increases all your damage, not just your one hand white attacks etc.

[Deleted]

That is actually one hand weapon spec, not expertise and it increases all your damage, not just your one hand white attacks etc.

Indeed, you are losing 10% on all damage you do. I'd call that a really bad trade-off.

[ragingsoul]

Folk are over looking what is a important one too. Guardian's Favor. When doing trash in Hyjall after the pot nerf this was essential. The extension of the time for hand of freedom really helps and I must say I don't think its the last instance bliz will do with waves of trash that can do knock downs and stuns on us.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

Is my Current build

I took BoK because in 10mans their is no guarantee of you having another pally to do it. Also the raid wide use is very good. Same reason to HoC that 3% extra crit helps the raid. After all its not just about my personal performance but how do I help out the raid as a whole. This did mean no to Stoicism and One handed expertise but I think the over all trade off is worth it.

why take pursuit of justice? completely useless seriously. take conviction or benediction instead.

as for me, this is my spec
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...00000000000000

I always have a holy paladin with me, and retri and a shaman, we are the core of the guild. So no need to take kings, reckoning is nice with WF. conviction for 5% more crit is also nice, this makes me fully raid buffed with 26.5% crit.

When doing trash in Hyjall after the pot nerf this was essential

I don't really get that, mostly because I MT, when are you gonna bubble?

[Kerrain]

I don't really get that, mostly because I MT, when are you gonna bubble?

I either off tank or trash tank but when you get slammed to the ground stunned you have no dodge, block or any type of avoidance. Which means you are quickly dead. And why would the tank ever bubble? To wipe the raid?

Pursuit of justice I like the disarm reduction and the movement increase. Personal preference but thats me. In the last 3 raids I was in in 1 we had another pally. Once we hit 25 man content that should change but right now I don't see it happening.

[Evereghalo]

I either off tank or trash tank but when you get slammed to the ground stunned you have no dodge, block or any type of avoidance. Which means you are quickly dead. And why would the tank ever bubble? To wipe the raid?

Pursuit of justice I like the disarm reduction and the movement increase. Personal preference but thats me. In the last 3 raids I was in in 1 we had another pally. Once we hit 25 man content that should change but right now I don't see it happening.

1) You dont bubble per se, its a trick that prot pallys have picked up where you macro Divine Shield to:

/cancelaura divine shield
/cast divine shield

(check that because I dont think its right)

where you spam it and it gets out of of everything, its great because it also works on bosses that give tanks a non dispellable debuff.

i.e. the bloodboil fight in BT, this would let you take twice as many debuffs before you had to have another tank take over. It could also work on Council I would think if you had a exchange and too way too many debuffs.

2) Stoicism is just not that great practically. 15% of duration.

So on a 3 second stun thats. .45 seconds. Which does help, but if .45 seconds is going to kill you then there are other problems. I can name off hand the fights that do cause a stun, and if I do pug a healer, then I make sure to give them a heads up. I am also a human paladin so its hardly ever an issue. It also does not work on bosses that do do a stun for purposes of an event.

Lastly, guardian's favor. In theory it is good but if you are having to bop a DPS or the Healer every other pull then there is a problem. Let the dps die if it is pulling agro (which is some feat on a prot paladin) and for a healer, it is usually only during an overpull. which means improve your spacial awareness, or use CC till you are overgeared. Then if the problem persists kick the healer.

Also note these are PvE comments, and like most end game raiders you should into these kind of oh shyt buttons when there are other builds.

Here is my build, flame it!!!! because I know you will, but it will be the 25man raiding spec sooner or later.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=000000000000

More or less you can play around with the pts in benediction, i do it for mana efficiency, it is possible to get mana starved in some 5 mans when you start getting over geared so it helps.

[Draco cracona]

For raids, I'm finding threat trivial these days, so no point in me speccing for conviction or seals i think tbh. For 5-10 mans, I'd say http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=000000000000 (the second imp. judgement is filler as there isn't anywhere that will affect anything i find, as is the one in DG). For 25 mans, I'd say the same ret, with stoicism, BoK, DG, imp. devo, imp. HoJ and reckoning (to be used with a cancelaura macro as an AoE SoV tool, as single target TPS increase is negligible) all as filler choices. DG is nice for OT/tras situataions, you're not giving much up for it, the others depend on your raid makeup, and can you be sure that you'll have JotJ effect on every boss you tank, even ones like 4HM? And as for PoJ being useless, it's good for (for example) Anub, Gluth (on add duty), and getting in range on loose or charging mobs faster if they charge over 30 yards away. Bene or conviction better when mana and threat aren't issues in general? It's more personal preference tbh, there's a lot of freedom with specs.

Ever - you want your /cancelaura divine shield as a seperate macro, else it's affected by GCD, even if the bubble command is after, so i've always used just bubble and a cancelaura as seperate buttons.

[Evereghalo]

No its not, ur not activating an ability.

Go make it and click it once, you get your bubble,

then any time you can activate it again because it wont give you the global cooldown error untill after.

The raids will get harder, and threat will be an issue again. So dont slack off or you will be replaced.

Tank gear for threat isnt gonna get much better threat wise aside from strength, because everyone is stacking avoidance/mitigation.

When tier 6 and 8 content comes out, dps and casters, will have more AP/SP more Crit, fully hit capped, armor pen, and a crap ton of haste. Their damage will scale much better than gear for out threat.

I will warn you now, it will happen. And being the best burst threat class in raids should not be overlooked.

[Svenskpally]

I either off tank or trash tank but when you get slammed to the ground stunned you have no dodge, block or any type of avoidance. Which means you are quickly dead. And why would the tank ever bubble? To wipe the raid?

Pursuit of justice I like the disarm reduction and the movement increase. Personal preference but thats me. In the last 3 raids I was in in 1 we had another pally. Once we hit 25 man content that should change but right now I don't see it happening.

Weponchain enchant

[Draco cracona]

If I find myself low on threat, then I'll respec for SotP/Conviction - as it is, there's no point getting these talents when you're so far ahead on threat. Yes, it will be an issue later, yes I will respec for conviction/SotP when needed. Always remembered seeing the GCD on the macro, my bad, assmed all the macro was affected by it. Sven - movement speed is nice for some fights, as you're not getting much from increased threat when it's currently trivial, at least the movement speed's the main reason why I like PoJ.

[Whizky]

Q: What glyphs should I use?

A: It all depends, really. Glyph of Avenger's Shield (makes it only hit 1 target, not 3. But it hits 100% harder) is useful in PvP, and it is useful in some raids/dungeons. I personally however wouldn't choose it. It's so often beneficial for me to be able to cast a single spell and get lots of threat on multiple mobs at once.

Glyph of Consecration increases both the duration and the cooldown of consecration by 2 seconds so it allows for a little bit more room to manage your rotation. But it doesn't seem likely that you will have to keep to a very strict rotation in order to keep your threat up it doesn't seem all that important.

Glyph of Righteous Defense increases the probability for your Righteous Defense to work successfully by 8%. This one I deem more or less one of the most important ones.

Glyph of Seal of Vengeance gives you 10 expertise when you have Seal of Vengeance/Corruption up. Since expertise lowers the chance for bosses and mobs to dodge/parry/block your attacks and you are using Seal of Vengeance/Corruption all the time anyway this is another one I deem very useful and important.

There are several minor glyphs but they don't make that much of a difference. Choose as you see fit.

Good guide, I just wanted to add that possibly the 10% increase on judgment damage might be worth putting in a major slot: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41092

In conjunction with the new libram offered from heroic badges (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40707) judge is obviously an important part of our cycle, and a little more damage from it may be worth more than some of the other glyphs.

[Deleted]

Good guide, I just wanted to add that possibly the 10% increase on judgment damage might be worth putting in a major slot: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41092

In conjunction with the new libram offered from heroic badges (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40707) judge is obviously an important part of our cycle, and a little more damage from it may be worth more than some of the other glyphs.

Ah, I must have forgotten that. 10% increase in judgements isn't much, but it is still useful.

EDIT: Updated the section about avenger's shield glyph, added the judgement one, and modified the professions.

[custos]

Here is my build, flame it!!!! because I know you will, but it will be the 25man raiding spec sooner or later.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=000000000000

More or less you can play around with the pts in benediction, i do it for mana efficiency, it is possible to get mana starved in some 5 mans when you start getting over geared so it helps.

You did say flame, so here comes.

You are waisting a lot of talents in the ret tree, that can be used on dmg mitagen. when it comes to Crusade, okey its a 3-6% dmg incraese, but at what use? you say it yourself, its a feat in it self to pull aggro of a protadin. Same goes for Conviction.

Benediction is close to usless for a paladin if you know how to handle your mana, even for heroics. If you overgear a instance, then get some cheap Braiting trinkets/gear and you will see with sanc, mana wont be an issue, and with a nice amount of avoidance, you cant go oom in instances.

Get DG, a lot of bosses in Wotlk needs 2-3 bosses, but when you run naxx, i hardly think you swap out a tank to get optimal team going, as its a easy place. There is a number of bosses that this is usfull, the most exstrem is sath on the enrage 10%.

Get judgment of the just, as it will reduce incoming dmg by a lot, you cant rely on a warrior, druid or DK doing that debuff, and the dmg a dps warrior looses to do this is not worth it compeared to those other usless talents.

max AD

Get kings for more utility, many guilds use more then 1 prot pala.

If you realy want that crit, get hear of the crusade, since 5 man groups often wont have it, and in raids you have so many buffs treat realy isnt a issue, you should be doing 4-6k tps deppending on gear/skill

On Stocisme you are right on the other hand. This is as of now usless, and was in PVE only usfull imo in MH were evry splitt second not being stunned while tanking abos, could be a lifesaver. If it does come trash like that again, it will be wery handy.

[Evereghalo]

You did say flame, so here comes.

You are waisting a lot of talents in the ret tree, that can be used on dmg mitagen. when it comes to Crusade, okey its a 3-6% dmg incraese, but at what use? you say it yourself, its a feat in it self to pull aggro of a protadin. Same goes for Conviction.

Benediction is close to usless for a paladin if you know how to handle your mana, even for heroics. If you overgear a instance, then get some cheap Braiting trinkets/gear and you will see with sanc, mana wont be an issue, and with a nice amount of avoidance, you cant go oom in instances.

Get DG, a lot of bosses in Wotlk needs 2-3 bosses, but when you run naxx, i hardly think you swap out a tank to get optimal team going, as its a easy place. There is a number of bosses that this is usfull, the most exstrem is sath on the enrage 10%.

Get judgment of the just, as it will reduce incoming dmg by a lot, you cant rely on a warrior, druid or DK doing that debuff, and the dmg a dps warrior looses to do this is not worth it compeared to those other usless talents.

max AD

Get kings for more utility, many guilds use more then 1 prot pala.

If you realy want that crit, get hear of the crusade, since 5 man groups often wont have it, and in raids you have so many buffs treat realy isnt a issue, you should be doing 4-6k tps deppending on gear/skill

On Stocisme you are right on the other hand. This is as of now usless, and was in PVE only usfull imo in MH were evry splitt second not being stunned while tanking abos, could be a lifesaver. If it does come trash like that again, it will be wery handy.

Wow your dumb,

1) I said it was the max threat build.

2) No prot paladin that is a MT would waste pts on kings, thats a ret paladin's job.

3) AD is useless, its an aoe tanking ability, not single target tanking. If it saves ur life single target tanking u are undegrared or ur healers are fucking up. AND it has 4/5pts

4) DG? that is such a fucking joke I wont even respond. I am not an OT, I am a MT and all you girly pally OTs need to just stfu and gtfu because we arent here to talk about riding bitch to some warrior, druid or death knight.

Lastly, to rebutt what you say about crusade, it is still the best build for the "trash tank" role you seem to put paladins in because it does more threat on more targets faster. So dps can aoe harder. Only a bad healer, or undergeared tank would need max mitigation to survie trash pulls.

[PapaNasty]

Interesting build



imo though, if you're going more than 10 points into the ret tree, you can't not get pursuit of justice.  15% speed = 15% faster to move out of aoe, 15% faster to get into combat with a boss, 15% faster at running to the next pull.  This will speedup your trash pulls + more time to build threat on bosses + less chance of being hit by aoe etc since you have more flexibility (Even if it just means you can stay in for that last hit on the boss before you have to run out to avoid an aoe or similar)

Personally I wouldn't bother with benediction, but that's just personal preference since I find I'm usually not oom and it's handy to have the imp might / 3% crit incase the ret paladin dies or there's only 1x warrior in the raid so that I can get commanding and give him might to offset bs (Which is often the case in 5/10 mans)


Judgements of the Just is an absolute must if you're maintanking, it's really not fair to expect a warrior OT to thunderclap for you in every encounter.  They might have their own adds to tank or similar, if they do then you're taking 20% more damage and that's just making your MT healers work 20% harder so that you can do 2-4% more damage


Likewise should always have 5/5 AD imo, it's simply too much of a lifesaver to not go 5/5 into, as a tank your main job is survival and that's one of the best survival talents in the entire tree.


But yeah, http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=131218050401 is my ideal talent build for prot, with 5/5 BoK if you aren't 100% guranteed that you'll have a ret paladin to buff it each raid (To replace 3/3 imp HoJ / 2/2 Divine Guardian)


As a prot dps built (since threat is a non event, it's really just a build for dmg meters lol), your build is pretty solid though, and I can see how it'd work well in current content since it's soo ezymode. Although in that respect, imo you should spec pursuit of justice to speed up trash pulls etc