(Idea Thread) New Class Spells to recover from the "To The Ground" Nerf

[Ufalah]

zarondd, I'm not going to bother quoting your huge posts but what are you, 12? You want to run around, or rather, float around like some untouchable divine angel with light around you, with resistances to everything and counters to everybody, knocking people back 30 yards or pulling them to you freely with virtually no cooldown as if they were little chess pawns? I mean, I think the only thing you're missing is a skull level mask and a .kill interface command.

While Zar has some different ideas, I like the creativity. He isn't suggesting ungodly powerful abilities (lol prenerf lifebloom anyone?) rather a BoP that is useful but with only a 5 second duration and 50% reduction to physical damage not overpowered. It might even turn out to be weak if it was an actual spell.

Bottom Line: Ret needs something. Anything. They took our burst and mana regen. Give us SOMETHING in terms of utility PLEASE.

[Karpalo]

Spell reflect for 11 points in prot would sound pretty reasonable. Would give some much wanted utility for retri paladins as well while not being anything spectaculary good in unskilled hands.

[Knighthonor]

Spell reflect for 11 points in prot would sound pretty reasonable. Would give some much wanted utility for retri paladins as well while not being anything spectaculary good in unskilled hands.

Well Warriors have that.

I wouldnt mind something Unique, like a Melee Reflection. In the Lore and Trading Card Game, we had Holy Shield, which reflected Melee attacks back at the enemy.

So how bout this.

Vanguard
25sec cool down
Reflect the next Melee attack back at the target.

[Karpalo]

Well Warriors have that.

I wouldnt mind something Unique, like a Melee Reflection. In the Lore and Trading Card Game, we had Holy Shield, which reflected Melee attacks back at the enemy.

So how bout this.

Vanguard
25sec cool down
Reflect the next Melee attack back at the target.

I bet you would like the spellreflect* more after you tried both of the ideas couple of times.

[Knighthonor]

I bet you would like the spellrecflet more after you tried both of the ideas couple of times.

True but most classes use spells, so I would like to avoid making then upset again.
Dont wana get drowned in tears again.

[zarondd]

Melee reflect. Opinion withheld.

I'm of the opinion of moving towards "Defender of Light" style and making the procs and like mostly reactive based on when the ret or his party suffer damage.

Vengeance -> Redundant with other +%dam abilities esp with new Crusade and DKs have a clone, the talent is more their style anyways.
Replacement -> Heroic Inspiration
When paladin or ally suffers damage, there is a 33/66/100% chance of granting mana regen = 1/2/3% of maximum mana regen, 5/10/15 rage/runic power or 10/20/30 energy to X allies within Y range over 10 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times.
(Regen value subject to tuning)

Judgements of the Just -> To be honest, the mana refund tied has always been a quickfix to our mana problems in my eyes
Replacement -> Justice
When paladin or ally suffers damage there is a 10/20/30% chance of refreshing CD on Judgement, this effect may not occur more then once every X secs.

Fantacism -> To keep overall damage balanced, the extra judgements from above would need to be factored. This is a tied change. X is balanced against K.
Replacement -> Oath of the Lightsworn
When the paladin or ally suffers damage there is a K% chance to reduce the cast time of FoL by 20/40/60/80/100% and reduce the cost by 10/20/30/40/50%. Threat reduction same.

Art of War -> Damage modifiers tweaked for balance. When the paladin or ally is critically hit, instantly returns 7/15% base mana, this effect cannot occur more then every X secs.

Overall backwards step for damage, increased group utility and hybrid healing, lowered pve mana regen (but sufficient if tied with suggestion to reimplement Int on armor) higher overall pvp mana regen. Major migration from offensively tied towards defensively reactive yet different from Prot.

[naypalmacus]

Divine Strike (Baseline):
Deals no damage, knocks back a target by 30 ft (interrupting casting). 15s CD. No mana cost. Melee Range.
Fun move, situational interrupt, useful for all specs situationally.

That looks like a half decent 11 point prot talent[instead of baseline] in my opinion. Useful for prot pvp, not essential to tanking but can be used and ret paladins will have a proper interupt. Yet instead for them to just pile on the damage, the target gets knocked back, meaning can't instantly gib the player. Plus, how cool is a knock affect :P

Like what GC said, they would want a talent that serves all specs, not just ret pvp.

I like the suggestion, bravo zarondd!

[Knighthonor]

*Cleric's Insight- " [Channeled] Damage nearby enemy in range of targeted area for (X) Holy Damage and heals ally in that area for (X/2)

*Light Wave- "Heal all adjacent Ally for (X) Hp. (no effect on self)

Righteous Strike
6 second cool down.
Strike the target, dealing Holy Damage equal to 40% weapon damage. Righteous Strike deals Holy Damage equal to 10% of your Attack Power to the enemy each time they attack anybody other then you. Stacks 5 times. Last 15 seconds. one charge will be dispelled each time the target attacks you.

(Can be used to Hold threat while Off Tanking since your not being hit, also works as a PvP Taunt which adds a bit of PvP utility to the class)

[zarondd]

Heals should be designed for situational healing, and if ret gets AoE heals, your going to be looking at alot of Angry Holys. Not that I suggest paladins get AoE heals to begin with.

Righteous Strike - Effect is not bad (always under the assumption numbers can change), but once again, every time theres a new instant, the class becomes more bursty. Rolling the effect into existing skills would be more balanced.

[Fritos12]

I have a crazy idea since warlocks get to turn into demons with metamorphosis (im not sayin we should get this just because locks get it. my idea came from it) Paladins could get some sort of angel form or something from the light that paladins worship

[Knighthonor]

Heals should be designed for situational healing, and if ret gets AoE heals, your going to be looking at alot of Angry Holys. Not that I suggest paladins get AoE heals to begin with.

Righteous Strike - Effect is not bad (always under the assumption numbers can change), but once again, every time theres a new instant, the class becomes more bursty. Rolling the effect into existing skills would be more balanced.

Thing is, Ret would have to channel it for a heal. Also I was thinking baseline.

As for the Strike,
we have no baseline shared strikes between protection and Ret. thats why I suggested it being a new spell.

[zarondd]

Strikes were ruled out from the original WoW beta, with the seal/judgement system being the final form. A Strike went back to Ret to replace god-awful Kings as the final teir. Hence strikes will not be returned to baseline, so long as seal/judgement is the paladin dps system.

[Knighthonor]

Strikes were ruled out from the original WoW beta, with the seal/judgement system being the final form. A Strike went back to Ret to replace god-awful Kings as the final teir. Hence strikes will not be returned to baseline, so long as seal/judgement is the paladin dps system.

Blizzard changed the old strike system because they said it was too similar to Warriors. But we did gain strikes. Also this idea is unique from any Warrior mechanic.

[Ufalah]

Strikes were ruled out from the original WoW beta, with the seal/judgement system being the final form. A Strike went back to Ret to replace god-awful Kings as the final teir. Hence strikes will not be returned to baseline, so long as seal/judgement is the paladin dps system.

Blizzard forbid any of the classes become more similar... oh wait...

Warriors were the original MS but they gave it to rogues and hunters. A ret-paladin is basically a holy arms warrior, an arms warrior with principles and the favor of the light. A prot paladin is basically a holy prot warrior, a prot warrior with principles and the favor of the light.

[zarondd]

Im going to disagree with you Ufalah, not because theres anything wrong with what you say, but because I believe that there would be no point in having a seperate class if all it did was clone another class.

Blizzard has been homogenizing the classes, following some "role specific design" and I ask you, do you really want to eventually just become a warrior clone. I rolled a hybrid to play a hybrid.

As a side note, I have a simple principle for basic design balance of damage:
For Dedicated DPS, meaning talented + geared for pure dps, raw damage:

Low Mitigation/Avoidance Target
Physical > Hybrid > Magical

High Mitigation/Avoidance Target
Magical > Hybrid > Physical

Golden Mean Target
Physical = Hybrid = Magical

Balanced PvE content and PvP content means that overall, the dps have situational advantages and disadvantages, average out to be the same. When one outperforms the others in every situation (where 3.0 ret was in PvP), someone in charge of balance isn't doing their job. The reciprocal, underperforming in every situation (ret in 2.0 and ele shamans 3.0) holds true.

Hybrids should not have their potential lowered below the above, but rather because of their "Hybrid" role, have their effective dps lowered.
Meaning a hybrid doing nothing but dpsing would be as above
A hybrid doing their hybrid role such as healing/utility actives such as a paladin should be doing less because their spending their time and resources between dps and utility roles, whereas the pure dps are just completely devoted to dpsing.

[Applegarth]

Well since we getting nerfed I figured we mind well start brainstorming new Spell ideas to fix us back into shape. Blizzard also said we may get new abilities as well. So here we go.

Holy Sunder:
Instant, melee range, 8 second cool down.
Strike that deals Holy Damage equal to 30-45% Weapon Damage and deals Holy Damage equal to 100% Weapon Damage over 9 seconds, in addition, targets effected by Holy Sunder have the time between casting Increase Increased by 50% . Stacks 3 times.

May not completely solve the problem of lack of Interrupt, but still helps. Also its a controlled DoT rather then random proc.

Oh yea, cause you know that wouldn't be called overpowered or anything like that


I had a really cool idea the other night

Crusaders Spear
0/1 30 yard range
The paladin hurls a holy spear at a target, it deals x damage, it also interrupts spell casting.


that is one idea, the other is cool as well.

Long Arm of the Law
0/1
The paladin charges the target causing a knockback also deals a small amount of weapon damage.

There is my 2 cents right there, I would also like to see some sort of like movement reducer

[Applegarth]

Halo, Aura of Light and Weapon with unique heavy Light/Fire Graphic

That, that is all I want of our armor is to make us look like the Emperor of Man from Warhammer lol.

A halo of light and our weapon be wreathed in holy fire

That would be awesome, or make it like an enchant where its is like

Weapon Of Holy Might
Requires maxed engineer
Makes the weapons Str and Stam increase by a total of 10%

and the graphic would be the holy flames

[Zarcob]

Every melee has a snare. Almost every melee has an MS. Warriors, druids and arguably subtlty rogues all have "charge" mechanics to allow them to catch up to opponents.

Honestly, we've been asking for these types of things for over a year now and they haven't given any to ret, I doubt they will now, regardless of how much Ghostcrawler may protest that they've changed their tune towards ret or not. I think any ideas that have a chance need to be fairly unique, at least for a melee class: Silence, spell casting slow, spell power debuff, etc.

I also like these ideas because they're still viable for Holy. Holy suffers from the same problem ret does with absolutely no offensive tools. Although something like "UBER HOLY CHARGE08" would be fun, it'd be the epitome of useless for Holy. Whereas something like a silence or dps debuff would not be (assuming it lasts longer than 10 seconds). They can easily kill two birds with one stone here.

[Menethil]

Oh yea, cause you know that wouldn't be called overpowered or anything like that


I had a really cool idea the other night

Crusaders Spear
0/1 30 yard range
The paladin hurls a holy spear at a target, it deals x damage, it also interrupts spell casting.


that is one idea, the other is cool as well.

Long Arm of the Law
0/1
The paladin charges the target causing a knockback also deals a small amount of weapon damage.

There is my 2 cents right there, I would also like to see some sort of like movement reducer

Ah, those ideas (long arm of the law) made me think of Diablo II. Gave me an idea:

(Baseline) Zeal - Repeatedly assault the target, hitting it 3 times instantly. Each hit deals 20% weapon damage. 20 Second cooldown

This would be followed with a change to the prot talent:

(Protection)Zealous Reckoning - Your enemies become (20/40/60/80/100)% chance less likely to dodge, parry, or block your zeal spell.

The power in this would be the seal procs that occur in those three strikes (even if they only do a total 60% weapon damage)

[Emiai]

To whomever suggested pally spell reflect...

Sure, lets also give them sunder armour, shield bash, some kind of conal aoe stun.. could call it, shockwave maybe.