When affliction eventually gets fun they plan to ruin it some?

[Raibaru]

Problem #1: The difficulty of the encounter should come from the encounter itself, and not from the class you're doing it with. There is no reason a tank and spank fight should be more difficult for an Affliction Warlock then it is for a Mage.

Problem #2: The rotation simply isn't feasible. Sure, on fights like Brutallus where you sit there for an entire encounter and really don't need to do anything but stare at your DOT timer Affliction is fine. Can you imagine doing a pre-nerf Kil'jaeden, or a pre-nerf 4 Horsemen? It's simply not going to happen. Any fight that requires you to do more then put 100% of your attention toward maintaining a seamless rotation is going to have significant troubles reducing downtime.

Problem #3: You should be properly compensated for your work. There is no reason I, as a long time Affliction Warlock, should be asked to put for significantly more effort then any other DPS class in the game, try and maintain a highly complex rotation that is excessively prone to error, and expected to use a melee pet that is not designed well or supported properly by the class, and then only do the same damage as someone else who can still play blind folded.

The rotation is far more complex then it needs to be, the rotation is far to prone to error, it doesn't reward us properly for its difficulty, and it simply isn't feasible on any fight that you'll need to do something other then focus intently on your dot timer.

I for one welcome a rotation that is more involved then me spamming Shadowbolt as it's something this class has done for 4 straight years with only a few exceptions (FSW, and Naxx where you could have wanded to do more dps). But when I'm killing Arthas for 300 days straight like I did with Illidan while I wait for Blizzard to get off their butts to give me something new to kill, I won't be sticking with a rotation or a spec that's going to get in the way of me enjoying 24, House, Prison Break, Monk, or Psych while the rest of the raid gets to watch it while we're showing Arthas who's boss.

[rodobson]

Thats a typical problem with raiding. No one in the raid should be watching tv instead of playing the game. On in the background, fine. Causing you to DIAF, kicked. If ppl don't want to attentively raid and would rather watch tv, they should do so, and not waste the raid spot.

Fact is, Blizz doesn't think higher difficulty = higher DPS. they are doing a decent job to prevent facerolling. Some things just need to be toned down a bit. Not for ease, but for sensibility. Honestly there is nothing PvE related about this game that is even remotely difficult to those who play other videogames. Skill? This game doesn't require much of that compared to 95% of the other games out there. I've said it a million times, this game is so popular because its the game for people who don't play videogames. The real challenge of the game is to get 25 people paying attention and coordinated.

[Reubicant]

Everyone would like it if every rotation would be equally complex, and would provide equal benefit to those who could execute it equally. It's not tho.

RE: Raibaru

RE: Problem #1: I have no problems with one class being harder to succeed with than another class. That exists in pve roles and in pvp. Unfortunately there's no warning in the game manual that one class is very difficult to succeed with in endgame than others, so you're kind of screwed if you can't hack it.

RE: Problem #2: With enough practice, you won't need to stare at your dotimer. The learning curve to affliction is steep. It's not so difficult to master that you won't be able to do it. If you aren't up to the challenge, spec something less demanding. And if you really wanna play affliction, take 1 or 2 or more dots out of your rotation. And it's not like making mistakes causes your DPS to dramatically plummet. So you clip a DOT, or you have 70% uptime instead of 80% or 90%. You'll get better. Just deal with it in tough fights, you'll get better with more practice.

RE: Problem #2: This is the only one I agree is a problem, if they are gonna make Affliction juggle that many dots to achieve maximum DPS, then give them the best DPS in the game for perfect execution. I don't like having that carrot dangling out in front of where we have to work twice as hard for 5% more dps. However, I'd like it if they scaled the dps potential better instead of simplifying the rotation.

RE: Rodobson: "this game is so popular because its the game for people who don't play videogames." QFT

[ascote]

#Reubicant: I never used destro in raid, I was the malediction/shadow embrace boy and yes, I don't like the added challenge. I can do the rotation almost perfectly but it is not only to demanding on hard boss fights, but also as stated before it gets punished hard on fights with dps intervals and specially on threat dumps. Its sad for me to admit this, but I'll probably be using destro or demo in wotlk just for the extra flexibility.

[Merc1138]

The one change I'd like to see, would be siphon life OR a curse getting refreshed by haunt. This would help dps when having to cast non-damaging curses if haunt refreshed all curses, and with siphon life or curses getting refreshed just drop 1 cast during the rotiation(not asking for curses and SL to get refreshed at the same time), without changing any of the mechanics at all other than a dot refresh.

[ascote]

I wish shadow bolt refreshed those things instead of haunt. Haunt is a pain as it is already with 3 debuffs being linked to it.

[Bakis]

Having SB refreshing dots is not good and wont happen, would exclude all players that want to put points in demonolgy. Sbcasting without bane would simply be too bad in both pve/pvp.

[Ageisfang]

RE: Problem #2: With enough practice, you won't need to stare at your dotimer. The learning curve to affliction is steep. It's not so difficult to master that you won't be able to do it. If you aren't up to the challenge, spec something less demanding. And if you really wanna play affliction, take 1 or 2 or more dots out of your rotation. And it's not like making mistakes causes your DPS to dramatically plummet. So you clip a DOT, or you have 70% uptime instead of 80% or 90%. You'll get better. Just deal with it in tough fights, you'll get better with more practice.

I don't care how much practice you have, to get off a flawless execution you're going to have to look at your dot timer for the vast majority of the fight. You're never going to be able to think "Hey look, exactly 13.50 (or whatever 15-your cast time of UA is) seconds have passed since I last cast UA, time to recast followed immediately by immolate, which I also need to factor in haste to make sure to not clip the dot" or "Hey look, since I moved/had some lag (that I don't know about because I don't believe in mods), I have to instinctively refactor the timing left on all my dots on the target to make sure nothing critical falls off."

People's brains simply cannot process that much specific critical information at one time. Can you get kinda close? Sure, but that's not the point people are trying to make here.

Don't get me wrong, I think that it's great that you have no lag and a precision timing chip in your brain so that you can keep track of the time left on all your spells to the exact millisecond, but for the rest of the world, we don't have that luxury and are going to drop significantly in dps.

A 10-20% uptime loss for making one small error in your rotation is far too extreme of a consequence for such a minor mistake. We shouldn't be forced to clip spells (another big dps loss) if we're lagging a little bit or if there's aoe damage or movement in the fight. Getting 10-20% less dps because you had a half second of lag on any given fight should not be a requirement to play the game. There are no other classes that are affected by this, so why are we subjected to it if our dps isn't higher to begin with to compensate for this inherent dps loss programmed into most of the fights?

We should be able to do comparable dps to that of other classes when the same scenario is presented to us, and with the rotation as huge as it is now, this just doesn't seem feasible on very many fights. It should be hard to do top dps, but not next to impossible.

[yaba]

We should be able to do comparable dps to that of other classes when the same scenario is presented to us, and with the rotation as huge as it is now, this just doesn't seem feasible on very many fights. It should be hard to do top dps, but not next to impossible.

honestly, let it be next to impossible. Most players can do it if they set their mind to it. Im personally thinking of duelspecing affliction and 0/28/43. Ill use destro for most fights, when we need that extra boost in dps/Im feeling undertasked/non imp friendly fight/etc Ill switch to affliction and rock the charts while being engrossed in the timers.

[Reubicant]

I don't care how much practice you have, to get off a flawless execution you're going to have to look at your dot timer for the vast majority of the fight.

Flawless execution is impossible. Let's get over that hump.

You're never going to be able to think "Hey look, exactly 13.50 (or whatever 15-your cast time of UA is) seconds have passed since I last cast UA, time to recast followed immediately by immolate, which I also need to factor in haste to make sure to not clip the dot" or "Hey look, since I moved/had some lag (that I don't know about because I don't believe in mods), I have to instinctively refactor the timing left on all my dots on the target to make sure nothing critical falls off."

You won't be using your own internal clock to count down from 15 seconds, but you will be able to glance at your dotimer and see that you have 5 or 6 seconds of filler before another dot is refreshed. There's so much time to think and plan your next move or next few moves. Every button press affords you at least 1.3 to 1.5 seconds, and casted spells even more. That's an eternity in such an un-dynamic environment.

Of course lag hurts, it hurts everyone.

but for the rest of the world, we don't have that luxury and are going to drop significantly in dps. A 10-20% uptime loss for making one small error in your rotation is far too extreme of a consequence for such a minor mistake.

That's a gross exaggeration. What is significant? Where are you coming up with 10-20%? If you are constantly making mistakes, then that's one thing, but a mistake every once in a while will not cause anything even close to such a large DPS drop.

[totallyrad]

I think that the people complaining about having to look at your addons all the time are whining over nothing. I've been playing aff long enough that I know around what time my dots need to be recast based on timing. with just a quick glance of the time left every once and a while you can pay attenting to other things onscreen no porblem. once you've got your roto down Affliction is the funnest spec to play in WoW

[Reubicant]

Thank you.

People just need to get used to it.

[V]

I srsly love this thread!
Like a lot of people I am really not all that happy with the warlock in wotlk, BUT, does anyone remember that the warlock was designed in the first place to be a class using dots a demon and at least some type of rotation. and sorry guys sac pet, CoE, Sb, Sb, Sb is not a rotation, spamming one button and being almost uncatchable on meters with proper gear is too OP. While i agree the afflic rotation is completely hectic and sometimes hard to accomplish I'm looking forward to the challenge. And after practice you will not lose 10-20% (i think thats an over estimiate now, unless u screw up every rotation)dps for screwing up one rotation based on whatever you'll know how to pick it back up.

Like someone said previous post being top of dmg meters should not be easy. We we're just too spoiled for a long time and need to suck it up and L2P again.

[Krvnik]

I srsly love this thread!
Like a lot of people I am really not all that happy with the warlock in wotlk, BUT, does anyone remember that the warlock was designed in the first place to be a class using dots a demon and at least some type of rotation. and sorry guys sac pet, CoE, Sb, Sb, Sb is not a rotation, spamming one button and being almost uncatchable on meters with proper gear is too OP. While i agree the afflic rotation is completely hectic and sometimes hard to accomplish I'm looking forward to the challenge. And after practice you will not lose 10-20% (i think thats an over estimiate now, unless u screw up every rotation)dps for screwing up one rotation based on whatever you'll know how to pick it back up.

Like someone said previous post being top of dmg meters should not be easy. We we're just too spoiled for a long time and need to suck it up and L2P again.

exactly