Seriously?

[Decix]

Why do you all say holy paladins are gimped.
L2P

[Lpito]

Why do you all say holy paladins are gimped.
L2P

agreed, i dont know how easy to heal nowadays since my pally is my alt and havent played him in a while, but with the T5 gear he has, i was able to solo heal kara. bacon ftw

[Decix]

agreed, i dont know how easy to heal nowadays since my pally is my alt and havent played him in a while, but with the T5 gear he has, i was able to solo heal kara. bacon ftw

TBH Beacon of Light isn't that great.
Only on fights like illidan for the two fire tanks and Eredar twins is Beacon of light effective.

[Lpito]

eeh i really havent healed end game, so i could not comprae holy paladins to other healing classes right off the bat without checking numbers and crap, all ims aying is that a so so geared holy pally can solo heal kara no prob.

[Sartecho]

eeh i really havent healed end game, so i could not comprae holy paladins to other healing classes right off the bat without checking numbers and crap, all ims aying is that a so so geared holy pally can solo heal kara no prob.

Of course a well-geared holy pallie can solo heal Kara. It's been nerfed massively. Everyone else can solo heal it too. The place is a joke. In fact, please remember that everything has been massively nerfed so talking about how things are easy now is a bit ridiculous.

The reason that paladins are frustrated is that they lack many of the tools that other classes use. Fortunately, Blizzard has recognized this and I think things are improving. Judgement of Light gives us the ability to heal many people at once. We can't do it the way that others can, but at least it's something. We also gain our new damage absorbing bubble at level 80. This combined with the improvements to holy shock should fill some gaps for us.

The area where I believe we still struggle the most is in arena. We are a class that has to stand still and spam heals, particularly when trying to heal through any MS-type debuff. If I'm standing there spam casting Flash of Light or Holy Light, it's retardedly easy to Counterspell me or Earth Shock me. Those who are skilled players will find ways to minimize the time that they are vulnerable to such interrupts. That doesn't mean that it's easy though and their skill will allow them to be successful despite being holy paladins. Other classes have a much easier time healing on the run and using instant cast spells. Paladins are definitely niche healers and PVP is not that niche.

[wolfpaq777]

Of course a well-geared holy pallie can solo heal Kara. It's been nerfed massively. Everyone else can solo heal it too. The place is a joke. In fact, please remember that everything has been massively nerfed so talking about how things are easy now is a bit ridiculous.

The reason that paladins are frustrated is that they lack many of the tools that other classes use. Fortunately, Blizzard has recognized this and I think things are improving. Judgement of Light gives us the ability to heal many people at once. We can't do it the way that others can, but at least it's something. We also gain our new damage absorbing bubble at level 80. This combined with the improvements to holy shock should fill some gaps for us.

The area where I believe we still struggle the most is in arena. We are a class that has to stand still and spam heals, particularly when trying to heal through any MS-type debuff. If I'm standing there spam casting Flash of Light or Holy Light, it's retardedly easy to Counterspell me or Earth Shock me. Those who are skilled players will find ways to minimize the time that they are vulnerable to such interrupts. That doesn't mean that it's easy though and their skill will allow them to be successful despite being holy paladins. Other classes have a much easier time healing on the run and using instant cast spells. Paladins are definitely niche healers and PVP is not that niche.

I've been doing arena ret/holy pala combo and I have to say, while your rant may be almost justified, you are forgetting a couple things:

-holy shock - my partner in crap gear has this crit heal for > 3k, normal for >2k. This can be cast every 6 seconds, and while yes, it is not mana efficient most instant cast heals aren't with the exception of HoTs (which druids got nerfed btw)

-You are the only healers in plate, meaning melee which is what is typically used to lock down healers will be doing significantly less damage.

-If you spec properly you have a 30% reduction to ALL FORMS OF CC, this is pretty good, something no other healer can do.

-hand spells & cleanse are instant cast as well, and are incredibly useful.

-appropriately timed hammer of justice is still sexy for forcing trinket pops or buying time to get off a heal.

[Evilmaniac]

I've been doing arena ret/holy pala combo and I have to say, while your rant may be almost justified, you are forgetting a couple things:

-holy shock - my partner in crap gear has this crit heal for > 3k, normal for >2k. This can be cast every 6 seconds, and while yes, it is not mana efficient most instant cast heals aren't with the exception of HoTs (which druids got nerfed btw)

-You are the only healers in plate, meaning melee which is what is typically used to lock down healers will be doing significantly less damage.

-If you spec properly you have a 30% reduction to ALL FORMS OF CC, this is pretty good, something no other healer can do.


-hand spells & cleanse are instant cast as well, and are incredibly useful.

-appropriately timed hammer of justice is still sexy for forcing trinket pops or buying time to get off a heal.

ever meat a discipline priest? they were and in the future will be again nearly impossible to kill

[Audacious]

Holy pallies are the easiest healer to lock out.

May have something to do with it.

[greenmasheen]

fuck, my druid can solo heal kara, 900-950 spell power is all i have really.

[Iselian]

-If you spec properly you have a 30% reduction to ALL FORMS OF CC, this is pretty good, something no other healer can do.

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53553

A 30% chance to give a 30% resistance.
First, you have to spam-cleanse through, say, 5 stacks of winter's chill before getting to the 5 stacks of wound poison. That's not mana-intensive at all. But each time you hit cleanse, you have less than a 1/3 chance of increasing resistances. That means that through a 5 stack of winter's chill (just as an example) you might proc Sacred Cleansing once. That proc would give the person a 30% chance to resist diseases, magics, and poisons. (Note: Not curses, like Curse of Exhaustion)

So, assuming you get it to proc, your ally now has, for 10 seconds, 30% resistance. That means that if a mage ice-lances them 10 times, only 7 will apply winter's chill. Darn, we're back to another 5 stack.

But wait! Under 10 seconds, only 3 ice-lances could get off! (1.5 GCD) meaning 1 will get negated! Woo!... Darn.


By this point you've spam-cleansed your friend, eating your mana, while the proc came in at an unrealiable time. Then it proc'd, stopping 1 of 3 debuffs before the buff faded (assuming no purge or dispel) and we're back to square one.


Sacred Cleansing is an RNG nightmare.

[Osmeric]

TBH Beacon of Light isn't that great.
Only on fights like illidan for the two fire tanks and Eredar twins is Beacon of light effective.

Beacon on self.

Hand of Sacrifice on Tank.

[Sartecho]

I've been doing arena ret/holy pala combo and I have to say, while your rant may be almost justified, you are forgetting a couple things:

My post was not intended to be a rant. It was lengthy so that I could clearly convey my thoughts and relay the concerns of other holy pallies as I perceive them. I did mention several positives. Some of which you brought up yourself in an attempt to counter my points.

I mentioned that the improvements to Holy Shock fill some gaps for us.

Yes, of course we wear plate. And yeah, that means a rogue does less damage to me. Of course, if I'm too easy to lock down then it doesn't really matter whether I'm alive or not. My job is to heal. If I'm locked down, I'm not healing.

Cleanse has it's time and place, but it will also OOM you extremely fast. It's also generally a terrible use of a GCD. Many times I'm better off just healing through something rather than trying to remove it. This is mostly because of mana concerns but also because we tend to get behind when hitting cleanse. If I have to hit it once,fine. If I have to spam it to take off stacks of something, forget it.

My chief concern is that we're so easy to lock out. Maybe I should've emphasized that more heavily. I believe it is the fact that we are forced to stand in LoS spamming Flash or HL that makes us less effective in PVP. Interrupting us is LOL easy. I also have a rogue and a priest. When I do PVP on my rogue, I LOVE to find a holy pallie to pick on. Interrupting them is like taking candy from a baby.

[Decix]

Beacon on self.

Hand of Sacrifice on Tank.

You're a moron, HoS lasts 12 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown

[ibnalail]

Many times I'm better off just healing through something rather than trying to remove it.

"Trying" would certainly be the key word here. A lot of classes have an increased resistance to dispell effects on thier debuffs. Subtlety for druids, Improved Stings for hunters, Arcane subtlety for mages, Silent Resolve for priests, Vile Poisons for rogues, Healing Grace for Shammies, Contagion for locks. Barring Contagion, these talents are all pretty easy to reach and are probably pretty common in a pvp setting.

But I'm guessing the 30% reduction to CC that Wolfpaq777 mentions is in reguards to Unyielding Faith/Concentration Aura. Priests, however, do get 15% reduction to stun, fear and silences for 5 points in a T1 talent, not to mention fear ward. Shammies have tremor to remove fear, charm and sleep, druids can shift to avoid polymorphs/banish not to mention that they are by far the most mobile healer, allowing them to stay out of range of most CC'ers as well as having the ability to proactively take out a CC'er with Cyclone before the opposing CC'er can get them.

So yes, we can get a 30% resistance to several, but not all, forms of CC, however it does come at a cost of 5 talent points {18 total to get down to imp concentration} and we are not the only healers that have several means for negating or reducing the effectiveness of people trying to CC them.

[Deleted]

Why do you all say holy paladins are gimped.
L2P

L2Troll

[killfrenzyv2]

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53553

A 30% chance to give a 30% resistance.
First, you have to spam-cleanse through, say, 5 stacks of winter's chill before getting to the 5 stacks of wound poison. That's not mana-intensive at all. But each time you hit cleanse, you have less than a 1/3 chance of increasing resistances. That means that through a 5 stack of winter's chill (just as an example) you might proc Sacred Cleansing once. That proc would give the person a 30% chance to resist diseases, magics, and poisons. (Note: Not curses, like Curse of Exhaustion)

So, assuming you get it to proc, your ally now has, for 10 seconds, 30% resistance. That means that if a mage ice-lances them 10 times, only 7 will apply winter's chill. Darn, we're back to another 5 stack.

But wait! Under 10 seconds, only 3 ice-lances could get off! (1.5 GCD) meaning 1 will get negated! Woo!... Darn.


By this point you've spam-cleansed your friend, eating your mana, while the proc came in at an unrealiable time. Then it proc'd, stopping 1 of 3 debuffs before the buff faded (assuming no purge or dispel) and we're back to square one.


Sacred Cleansing is an RNG nightmare.

Wound poison is only one stack now of 50%

[rellex]

i have a friend healing in bt/sunwell....his main issue atm is that beacon is ~1k mana, spending 1k mana (which can't crit for illumination goodness) can suck for some of the longer fights (since this patch everything was nerfed so we've likely not seen a truly long fight with our new toys).

just my two cents