Master Shapeshifter's usefullness

[Deleted]

So i took a look at this from a numbers view using the RAWR program. Loading all the top level gear in and looking at TPS/DPS with or without master shape shifter and its truly not really different. (This is assuming all end game gear/trinkets/Gems)

Both using the Highest TPS Rotation (Maul, Mangle, Lacerate, Faeri Fire).

With MS: 4053 TPS / 1713 DPS
Without MS : 4030 TPS / 1721 DPS (Put other 5 points into Mangle and KOJ)

Stats :
37679 HP
42685 Armor
43.69% Dodge

In summary i think it comes down to the minor increase in TPS relates to the consistent DPS generated over time versus the spike DPS boost from KOJ being popped in a boss fight. My personal preference is not to have KOJ because i would not have the need to pop enrage in a fight as i have more than enough rage and threat to spare. I don't want to over burden the healers.

Could you run the program using my spec, and then again using my spec where the points in MS is taken to Primal Precision, on a tanking perspective?

My spec is: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...h=031002050604

I wonder if RAWR can consider glyphs aswell - with more mobs around, MS would probably be more and more beneficial with maul glyph and general swipes. In any case, ive never been good to use RAWR myself, thus i ask you.

My spec works wonderfully for me. The reason for this is that i hardly ever have to use enrage in combat (and having KOTJ as a bear is an overall 2,5% damage increase, that nerfs your armor) and dodges and parries arent something im overly concerned about at the moment.

[Khay]

When i hit 80 (past tense) i was getting spanked alot by trash and bosses in heroics. Tanking 3 mobs was risky, so i totally focussed my tanking build on dmg mitigration.

I was using this build

I'm still using the same build and i can tank 4-6 mobs in heroics without having to be afraid of dieing. I certainly don't have the best gear, i'm in mostly lvl 80 heroic blues with a few TBC items (bonus armor ftw).
Stats: 28k hp, 35% dodge, 30k armor

A little motivation:
Feral Aggression I saw no1 taking these 5 talents, no idea why not. I'm always using Demo Roar on mobs, so an extra reduction in their attack power is welcomed. I also like to be viable in Cat Form now and then. With Rend and Tear Ferocious Bite is better than Rip, so 15% more dmg on FB is golden. (up to 15k crits)
Feral Instinct Only 1 point, it was actually a spare point and it might help getting a little more threat multiple mobs with Swipe. I didn't take 3 points because threat is generally no problem.
Shredding Attacks No rage or TPS problems while tanking, so no benefit for this talent.
Primal Pricision Expertise is 'ok', i wouldn't prioritise it, but it's still good to have. The misconception exists that you have expertise so more attacks lands on the mobs/boss. In fact tanks take/want/have expertise so mobs/bosses don't parry too much. A parried attack reduces the swing timer on attacks. Indirectly expertise lowers dmg income.
King of the Jungle I don't have this talent, but i really miss it in Cat Form. It's not needed for tanking at all though.
Improved Mangle I don't see a reason to take this talent. For tanking it's a TPS increase which is not needed at all.
Natural Shapeshifter This talent is a pure PvP talent. No need to even consider taking this for any form of PvE.
Master Shapeshifter While the effects are nice, it doesn't fit in any build besides a deep resto one or maybe an odd feral dps one. For tanking this talent is not needed at all because threat isn't a problem.

Question.

What % of your DPS comes from maul?

If it is below 20% - then MS is better point for point than rend and tear.

If it is above, then I have no useful input

I'm using the glyph for Maul and about 50-80% of my dps comes from Maul in 5/10 mens. On bosses probably alot less, but surely alot more than 20%. (i've seen 5k Maul crits, don't underestimate it mate )

[Moog]

Does no one take primal tenacity - i can see why its usefull in PvP but so many of the bosses ive encountered on my journey to L80 are stunning the main tank, dropping our dodge to 0 so 30% less dmg at this point is bound to be usefull?

for me its a choice of two talents from KotJ, primal tenacity and infected wounds. Concerning boses is Infected wounds proving usefull? or are most immune? i went with KotJ and tenacity.