Able to be uncrittable?

[Briggs]

It is a cap, just a soft cap like expertise is at 5.6%.

Crit Immunity cap is 5.6% which is 540 defense. That doesn't mean defense is useless after 490. Still provides fine avoidance, got to take DR into account tho.

[Tuxan]

If anyone cares that 689 Defense Rating.

[shockhorn]

defense is not capped just by being uncritable. Stop believing and spreading that. Its true that you become uncritable and defense will not help in this way anymore after that point, but because of coments like that and all that talk about "defense cap" many people thougth that defense was useless beyong 490 (at level 70). And defense was a very decent stat. 19 dodge rating was 1% avoidance ( 1% dodge) and 20 defense rating was almost 1% avoidance ( was 0.98 or so miss+dodge+parry) plus 0.33% block, making it equal or better than the beloved dodge rating most people would take before defense. I talk in past tense because this applied to level 70, dont know the maths for level 80 yet.

its called a soft cap. pretty much all number crunchers understand this use of wording. stop being a jerk just to be a jerk.

the point is that after each point of defense after the 'soft cap' is arguably worth less than each point before the soft cap.

[Falos]

Before DR, a druid would get more dodge from agi than dodge rating. You could remove the bonus crit and AC beyond a soft cap, call it a "reduced effect", and try to argue against agi pass that, but you'd be still be wrong. Between epeective strokers and the cluster**** of misinformed defense/crush/crit "facts" there's very few people that actually know what stats do or how the attack table works.

490 was a minimum from the community, because crit should be so far beneath mention and so far out of mind. Defense gives almost the exact same raw avoidance as dodge, throw in block and other perks and it's the single best stat at reducing intake.

[Draco cracona]

Before DR, a druid would get more dodge from agi than dodge rating. You could remove the bonus crit and AC beyond a soft cap, call it a "reduced effect", and try to argue against agi pass that, but you'd be still be wrong. Between epeective strokers and the cluster**** of misinformed defense/crush/crit "facts" there's very few people that actually know what stats do or how the attack table works.

490 was a minimum from the community, because crit should be so far beneath mention and so far out of mind. Defense gives almost the exact same raw avoidance as dodge, throw in block and other perks and it's the single best stat at reducing intake.

True, def is almost as much pure avoidance as dodge, although dodge is very marginally better than def post-102.4%, nobody was trying to argue against this, although dodge on it's own (i.e. no socket bonuses etc.) beats def after 102.4% assuming you're not stunned or being attacked from behind, in which case only 1/3 of the def avoidance and none of the other avoidance counts. The term Soft cap implies that while it's capped for some uses (crit reduction), it's not capped for other purposes (pure avoidance), whereas a hard cap is where all uses of the stat are capped at that value, for example, 15.6% expertise, 102.4% total (i.e. inc. block) avoidance. The attack table is basic knowledge for tanks, as parry mechanics are for tanks and melee. Stop saying that people are claiming that def is useless past the soft cap, as they're (generally) talking about the soft cap, knowing that the hard cap (102.4% pure) is impossible to get to it's just referenced as a cap. If people are stupid enough not to check percentages and misunderstand without looking it up then they're either not a tank or not a good tank, similar to warrs stacking BR, claiming that they got sheared or crushed while within SB due to not being in BR gear etc..

[Falos]

If people are stupid enough not to check percentages and misunderstand without looking it up then they're either not a tank or not a good tank

That's the majority of tanks, last I dared stick my head in the blizz forums. A "What is crush, exactly?" thread is more likely to pg10'd than get an accurate response, pre and post3.0 no doubt.

Hit past yellow is a reduced soft cap, hit past your tree's school of magic talents is a severe waste soft cap, but considering -crit% a (the?) primary effect of defense just adds to the misled "what's the best ***?" players. Pointing out the minuscule edge on dodge weighed against all of def's effects also means more confusion; people that wore pocket watch over scarab fail so hard it's a hidden difficulty. All skirting 490 did was make you inflexible, epeective stroking or not.

[lurked]

Well since all the heroic bosses only are level 82, what is the defence cap for level 82 mobs?
What's the math when it comes to level calculations?

The percentage of chances to be crit is always 5% for mobs of the same lvl of you, +.2% per lvl. so lvl 83bosses = 5.6%. Heroic lvl 82 bosses would be 5.4%(which is around 532def skill, if i'm right.

And well, to reach uncrittable, only need a few normal quality drops, some well choosen sockets, and you can start raids with a juicy 540+ def skill

[Dimelos]

I was wondering if there is an avoidance cap now (@70 it was 102.4 i believe)? Sorry if I skipped over the post that said it.

[Draco cracona]

I was wondering if there is an avoidance cap now (@70 it was 102.4 i believe)? Sorry if I skipped over the post that said it.

Still 102.4% total avoidance, but remember that there's diminishing returns on pure avoidance so not as easy to drop the block for pure after 102.4%, not that it's needed anymore with the removal of CBs.

[Dimelos]

Still 102.4% total avoidance, but remember that there's diminishing returns on pure avoidance so not as easy to drop the block for pure after 102.4%, not that it's needed anymore with the removal of CBs.

Okay thanks. I did notice that I wasn't at 102.4% anymore after leveling (now at 77). I'm glad it didn't go up.

[yiptastic]

defense is still the best way for us pallies to reach 102.4% avoidance + block.

remember, UNCRITTABLE IS NOT YOUR GOAL AS A TANK.


from my calculation:
1 defense = 4.9441 defense rating
1 dodge % = 39.3324 dodge rating
1 parry % = 49.3243 parry rating
1 block % = 16.3793 block rating
1 crit % = 45.8977 crit rating
1 hit % = 32.8125 hit rating
1%dodge/parry avoidance = 34.11765 expertise rating


once you get full access to T7 gear, paladins should aim straight for dodge > parry with defense stats on.

make sure you do the math right. You don't want to have avoidance + block > 102.4% or stats are wasted. +0.1 ~ 0.2% is fine but try to fine tune it to around 102.4%

take account into enchanting and gemming. If you hit the avoidance/block chance, stack stam. duh...

[Lumidar]

Def is the same for all tanks. even DKs.

the difference is that they focus more on Parry

[Ringleader]

or a combo of that as well as resil.

Resil = crud, imo.



Defense increases chance to parry/dodge/block.


But also increases your chance to be missed.


I'd never take resil over defense, at any point or time.

[Ringleader]

defense is still the best way for us pallies to reach 102.4% avoidance + block.

remember, UNCRITTABLE IS NOT YOUR GOAL AS A TANK.


from my calculation:
1 defense = 4.9441 defense rating
1 dodge % = 39.3324 dodge rating
1 parry % = 49.3243 parry rating
1 block % = 16.3793 block rating
1 crit % = 45.8977 crit rating
1 hit % = 32.8125 hit rating
1%dodge/parry avoidance = 34.11765 expertise rating


once you get full access to T7 gear, paladins should aim straight for dodge > parry with defense stats on.

make sure you do the math right. You don't want to have avoidance + block > 102.4% or stats are wasted. +0.1 ~ 0.2% is fine but try to fine tune it to around 102.4%

take account into enchanting and gemming. If you hit the avoidance/block chance, stack stam. duh...

Double posting here..

But shouldn't be aiming for uncrittable?


What is the looks of your reffering to, is the old uncrushable formula, which is non existant anymore, with the changes to the level of crushing?

[aminidab]

Double posting here..

But shouldn't be aiming for uncrittable?


What is the looks of your reffering to, is the old uncrushable formula, which is non existant anymore, with the changes to the level of crushing?

Crushing blows may not exist anymore, but avoidance is still good as a form of mitigation...

[Draco cracona]

Resil = crud, imo.



Defense increases chance to parry/dodge/block.


But also increases your chance to be missed.


I'd never take resil over defense, at any point or time.

There is one point in my entire time playing wow when I've taken resi over def for PvE - Illidan OT gear. You need uncrittability there, resi gems/trinkets/enchants are better at that than def, as generally tanks are scrabbling for uncrit there (or rather were).

[Offhand]

I wouldn't advise resil for most PvE situations as it's an over budgeted stat for what it provides.

However, like Draco said, if you're building up a resist set then you'll need to get to uncrit faster, resil would be a better option.

In short: resil makes you uncrit faster
def is better for tanking.

[arel00]

To point out a couple of things:

- crit immunity is your FIRST goal as a tank, nothing is more mandatory
- crit immunity for druids is achieved through talents
- crit immunity for DKs/pallies/warriors is acheved by reaching 5,6% crit reduction, which equals 540 defense at 80
- since 3.0, Resilience will NOT reduce your chance to be critted in PvE content, but is restricted to PvP
- parry, dodge and block ratings, as well as agility, are subjected to a diminishing efficiency the higher you go on your avoidance values
- regarding the same values, defense is diminished aswell, but on a slower rate
- in consequence of this fact, defense beyond crit immunity is still the best way to improve your overall avoidance

For the other classes, seemingly we look here too (I r dr00d):

- DKs will value parry rating more than warriors and paladins, for they lack block
- druids will value more agility, but it's been calculated already that defense overcomes agility on a point-to-point dodge value when a druid reaches 50% dodge buffed

On a last note: the consequence is all classes will value defense rating, so be prepared to see druids rolling on defense items (not on plate, of course) becuase it is a good stat for them aswell.
The onther consequence of the current class mechanics is every tank will value Strength aswell, since it directly affects block for warriors/pallies, parry for DKs, and threat on a general thing. In this case druids will fall a bit behind, since they don't gain avoidance by strength.

PS: the coefficients for the rating/value conversion for all stats are already available on wowwiki, just look up them.

Edit: thanks for pointing out to me

[lolololol]

To point out a couple of things:

- since 3.0, Resilience will NOT reduce your chance to be critted in PvE content, but is restricted to PvP
- parry, dodge and block ratings, as well as agility, are subjected to a diminishing efficiency the higher you go on your avoidance values

Source on both first point and on block also being on DRs.

[trangoul]

Source on both first point and on block also being on DRs.

The resilience was in patch notes for 3.0 i believe way back. The block i dont beleive is on Dim Returns though. I'd like to see that source