Paladins need an AE heal

[makketota]

I've healed all heroics now as a holy paladin, it's doable but in AE situations we do have alot of issues, some of my targets nearly die as im topping the rest off, and sometimes they do, also when spamming holy light non-stop on my party i often get into mana problems. As of today all other healing classes have AE heals, and i havent seen any evidance that priests, druid or shamans have any problems in HC's. My gear is mostly t7, i love my single target heals but still other classes have very strong single target heals too and in additon AE heals. If they give us a AE heal , they could give it a CD , it's not like i want holy paladins to AE heal in 25mans but i do not agree with GC when he says that Beacon Of Light will fill the gasps. Again its doable but rather hard, and it doesnt look good when a global cooldown could kill one of your members. Also in 10 mans this is even worse, priest , druids and shamans are chosen over holy paladins in both pugs and guild runs, were in 25 mans we are welcome but 1-2 seems enough.

Anyone ?

[Donolgann]

There's a lot of AoE damage going on in heroics for sure and they're nerfing the priest and druid AoE heals so if the damage becomes a problem I could see them tuning the content down. One advice I could give you is to try and CC more, I know it's been very intensive to heal heroics with all the trash being AoE'd without any form of CC but that's what people usually tend to do. A lot of boss AoE can be avoided too, tell your group to stop being retarded.

[makketota]

I think i focused too much on HC's in my thread whilst my biggest concern is 10 man's.

[Ektoplasme]

Well, in 10 man raids you're not the only healer. It's true that if 1 of your healer is a paladin, the other one has to be an AoE healer (aka not a paladin). But paladin+shaman works great for us. The main tank needs a dedicated healer anyway.

[Donolgann]

Exactly. Our group cleared 10 man naxx, Obsidian Sanctum and Vault of Archavon (pretty much one shotted everything, thanks blizzard) and we use pally/priest healer combo. In all the fights in naxx or almost you can have the pally heal the tank and be able to sustain it and have the priest heal the whole group without much problem.

[devil_bane]

GC has been saying for a bit they planned on tuning down the AoE in WotLK instances. It needs to happen.

Me, personally, I always envisioned the Holy Pally as a classic D&D Cleric. Meaning, they should have gotten HoT and AoE heals, and basically been the single most powerful healer in the game. But the vision of Pally that Blizz has had was unclear and in constant flux until recently, and even when blurry it was nothing at all like my vision of the class.

Blizz says that the Holy priest is that "Ultimate Healing God" class. And for the most part, right now they are. But Blizz has also said that they want the Holy Pally to be a "Focus Healer" without equal and I don't see that yet either. At the release of TBC it WAS true. It just is not now. When Illumination got nerfed from 100% to 60%, it really hurt the class. The week before that nerf, I was pimping 41% Crit, and could chain Holy Light for days and days. The week after, a Priest was outhealing me in raids.

My current take on what Blizz has done to the class, consists of maxing INT and MP5. In that order. INT = +Heal, and +Crit. This plus a solid MP5 base lets a Pally chain flash almost endlessly. When I *NEED* an area heal, I drop the Holy Light +Glyph. it's a crappy AoE, but it is all we have now. And honestly, I am kinda impressed how well it works out.

If a Holy Pally is teamed with a Resto Shammy in 10 man content, the 2 compliment each other fantastically. Every weakness one has, the other fills and compensates for beautifully. As a team sport, this is nothing but spades. My issue is how easily a Holy Priest stomps both of these into the dust.

So, my version would prolly read more along the lines of "Holy pally is pretty much okay now, I like the way it plays and how it feels. Reduce AoE damage in most instances a bit, and nerf the living dog shit out of holy priests, and whack druids with the nerf-stick too. Just because, you know, they are druids."

Yeah... I really believe pallies are fine.

[Donolgann]

Blizz says that the Holy priest is that "Ultimate Healing God" class. And for the most part, right now they are.
My issue is how easily a Holy Priest stomps both of these into the dust.

That is totally untrue, we priests are supposed to be the "swiss knife" of healer classes, very versatile but master of none. Currently a pally can sustain single target healing WAY better than I can and shaman AoE healing is far superior. At the end of TBC with all the end game gear we were able to spam CoH almost endlessly but we're in entry-level gear right now which means we have to be a lot more careful about our mana. All I'm going to say is :

A priest can't out-pally a pally,
A priest can't out-druid a druid,
A priest can't out-shammy a shammy.

BUT

A priest can out-pally a shaman/druid,
A priest can out-druid a pally/shaman,
A priest can out-shammy a pally/druid.

If you get what i mean.

[wutzor]

I've healed all heroics now as a holy paladin, it's doable but in AE situations we do have alot of issues, some of my targets nearly die as im topping the rest off, and sometimes they do, also when spamming holy light non-stop on my party i often get into mana problems. As of today all other healing classes have AE heals, and i havent seen any evidance that priests, druid or shamans have any problems in HC's. My gear is mostly t7, i love my single target heals but still other classes have very strong single target heals too and in additon AE heals. If they give us a AE heal , they could give it a CD , it's not like i want holy paladins to AE heal in 25mans but i do not agree with GC when he says that Beacon Of Light will fill the gasps. Again its doable but rather hard, and it doesnt look good when a global cooldown could kill one of your members. Also in 10 mans this is even worse, priest , druids and shamans are chosen over holy paladins in both pugs and guild runs, were in 25 mans we are welcome but 1-2 seems enough.

Anyone ?

Well I haven't seen any edidence of your problems neither

[Aceldama]

You've explained the situation quite well Donolgann but the problem healadins face is that they lack any versatility. Someone once made the point that if the paladins speciality is direct heals then they should be the only class to be able cast them.

While it's a ridiculous statement and im sure the person who wrote it was joking I can understand the sentiment, why should paladins be unable to cast aoe heals or hots when each other healing class can cast direct heals.

While we have judgement and seal of light at present which supplies a decent aoe healing component it is not strong enough to keep players alive when the group takes large aoe damage.

Paladins should receive an aoe heal and even if it was weaker than that of the other healing classes im sure healadins would be glad to receive it as it would help them support their group further than they do as well as making them more attractive healers for raiding.

I would much rather see this than having raid content nerfed so that aoe healing is rarely even needed.

[Fatherohealy]

Do judge light find a strategy that involves taking less damage. Don't ask for the game to be made even easier.

[shyara]

We do not need an AOE heal.


this has been debated many times, and we still don't need it.

The 5man content does not require aoe healing. (maybe a competent healer) but not AOE healing.

10 man content may require it, but that is why we have shamans, and priests with COH. We work together, not alone.



Seriously, enough with the same stuff over and over again.

[Sartecho]

Yes, of course you go OOM when you spam Holy Light. You're supposed to. It's our most expensive spell and no class can stand there spamming their most expensive spell without paying for it.

Do we need an AOE heal? We do need some way of healing multiple targets. If you keep losing group members then you're missing the boat somewhere. You should be judging light to deal with group/raid-wide damage. Beacon the tank and flash heal the raid. If you're already doing those and still losing people it's because they're undergeared or they're reckless. Positioning is a huge part of reducing incoming damage. Educate your party members on where to stand and how to move to stay alive.

I've been running as ret in most heroics with a paladin healer. The healer that I've been playing with does a fantastic job with very very few deaths. We've cleared every single heroic multiple times with a paladin solo healing. I also did my first real Naxx 10 run last night. We cleared about 3/4 of the instance, all bosses were guild first kills and all done with only two holy paladins healing. We had zero raid healers, just two holy paladins. We judged light, used beacon, and healed our asses off.

The people who are complaining about holy paladins at this point likely aren't using all of the tools at their disposal and haven't adjusted to the changes yet.

[GhostFreak]

I really hate idiots like the OP who are the reason why classes are becoming so much the same. The whole point of having different classes is because they all bring something different to a group or raid. I'm a shaman, do you see me QQ'ing about not having a druids HoT's? Do you see me QQ'ing about not being able to wear plate? People really need to realize different classes fulfill different roles. Stop asking for things that aren't yours. Want a chain heal? ROLL A SHAMAN. Want HoT's? ROLL A DRUID.

You know what? Why don't we just make all the classes into one and have them all wear anything, all have hots and chain heal, and all be able to dps and have pets. ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Do you not see why we have 10 different classes in this game? Want AoE heals? ROLL A GOD DAMN SHAMAN THEN.

[aquanda]

How do you have mostly T7 and not understand your class. Way to fail.

I find that BoL is a great way to mitigate AoE damage. The only downfall is that you obviously can't have 100% BoL uptime, and in most cases have to anticipate the incoming AoE damage by casting it prior to the AoE. Wasting time on a GCD right after your group takes a ton of AoE damage is not time well spent, at that point I'd use Holy Shock and pray it crits so I can get a quick Holy Light off on someone.

[shyara]

I really hate idiots like the OP who are the reason why classes are becoming so much the same. The whole point of having different classes is because they all bring something different to a group or raid. I'm a shaman, do you see me QQ'ing about not having a druids HoT's? Do you see me QQ'ing about not being able to wear plate? People really need to realize different classes fulfill different roles. Stop asking for things that aren't yours. Want a chain heal? ROLL A SHAMAN. Want HoT's? ROLL A DRUID.

You know what? Why don't we just make all the classes into one and have them all wear anything, all have hots and chain heal, and all be able to dps and have pets. ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Do you not see why we have 10 different classes in this game? Want AoE heals? ROLL A GOD DAMN SHAMAN THEN.

Exactly my sentiments. Thank YOU GhostFreak.

[Drayton]

Paladins don't need an AE heal. If you want one that badly, please roll another class.

[prospekt]

Ghostfreak sounds like a priest/druid/shaman who wants to make sure he keeps being selected over holy paladins for heroics & 10 mans. Go away.

Now on to the subject, yes we are in desperate need of an AOE heal, either that or we need better instant heals, holy shock is not good enough.

Some solutions I would propose

- Make sacred shield AOE, increase the mana cost, the spell is useless to put on a main tank and I mostly put it on myself or on the dps to absrob damage from bosses who spam small AOE, it does nothing against bosses that spam one huge AOE every 30 seconds or so because you have to be hit and take damage for it to activate but that is better than nothing.

- Increase the range of glyph of holy light to 40 instead of 5 yards, problem with this is it would officially be the most required glyph in the game for any class.

- Put a built-in effect to beacon that also heals everyone for 5% of any heals the beacon recieves, this would synergize well with glyph of holy light.

- Or just give us a damn AOE heal.

I personally think the 1st option of making sacred AOE shield everyone is the best, it has a unique flavour, and AOE "shield" and is gimp compared to shaman/druid/priest aoes, but it can help get the job done.

[shyara]

Ghostfreak sounds like a priest/druid/shaman who wants to make sure he keeps being selected over holy paladins for heroics & 10 mans. Go away.

mmm... not quite. I am a raiding holy paladin, and I COMPLETELY echo his sentiments.

Now on to the subject, yes we are in desperate need of an AOE heal, either that or we need better instant heals, holy shock is not good enough.

Our instant heals are FINE. Keep holy shock ready, along with the instant crit spell. (omg I dont know why I can't remember what it is... Not enough coffee this morning.)

Some solutions I would propose

- Make sacred shield AOE, increase the mana cost, the spell is useless to put on a main tank and I mostly put it on myself or on the dps to absrob damage from bosses who spam small AOE, it does nothing against bosses that spam one huge AOE every 30 seconds or so because you have to be hit and take damage for it to activate but that is better than nothing.

NO. I'd rather have nothing. You have holy light for that one. And get DBM. It tells you when big hits are coming.

- Increase the range of glyph of holy light to 40 instead of 5 yards, problem with this is it would officially be the most required glyph in the game for any class.

No. The 5 yard range enables us to get a small heal off the MELEE classes. Raid healers (shamans, priests) can easily do the ranged DPS

- Put a built-in effect to beacon that also heals everyone for 5% of any heals the beacon recieves, this would synergize well with glyph of holy light.

We already have BOL rolled into our heals. Talk about OP, give people more reason to bitch.

- Or just give us a damn AOE heal.

NO.

I personally think the 1st option of making sacred AOE shield everyone is the best, it has a unique flavour, and AOE "shield" and is gimp compared to shaman/druid/priest aoes, but it can help get the job done.

Please, stop beating the dead horse. I like to think I explained it well, should you have more questions, please ask me.

[prospekt]

You didn't explain anything, if AOE heals weren't needed no class would have or use them, your argument is simply flawed.

Who here, as a druid/priest/shaman, does *not* use AOE heals in heroics? Who? That's right none of you, they are absolutely necessary, don't be retarded. You saying we don't need them doesn't make it so.

And one thing I forgot to mention, if judgement of light benefited more from spell power it would help inmensly, when I'm ret my light heals are alot higher than when I'm holy, and my ret gear is trash compared to my holy gear.

[dadou131988]

This again ?

You should be doing fine with what you have:

JoL, Talents that increase your casting speed, Beacon of Light...