Wintergrasp Tenacity

[sah303136]

i have yet to see a win with tenacity ( offense or defense) on arthas us even tho i heard stories. Imo it needs a buff to even make a large scale difference. This is a QQ post about a few players getting owned by one player cause had tenacity while the op fails to realize the larger of picture of balancing the teams and making vo accessible to everyone short of rotating it btwn factions

[LavaDuck]

Tip: Kill the healer first.

[Slavemaker]

If you ask me, tenacity is not nearly powerful enough. All your complaining the last few posts has been from the position of a dominated server, where your faction can have numerical superiority over your opponents. Coming from a server where my faction is terribly outnumbered, Alexstraza, Horde has trouble putting together a 5 group raid in WG, much less a full raid. We routinely see buff stacks 8+, if not in the teens. What does that mean for us? Well, even if we can group up and ram in with 5-6 siege vehicles, a handful of demolishers, and the rest of the group catapults, we still get maybe one or two hits on the keep door before we've all be utterly annihilated by the deluge of aoe and random spam from wading through upwards of 100 allies. You just can't fight against numbers like that when all you've got is tenacity. Above, the 20 vs 5 with a healer comment was made. I assure you, if all 20 of you had focused on that healer right from the start, like you should have done, you would have downed them like nothing. Stuns, interrupts, a few DK grips, and the healer is toast. The rest is easy from there. But tenacity wasn't meant to be an individual fight buff; rather, it's a BATTLEGROUND buff, designed to equalize an entire war over the zone, not individual skirmishes. Sure, when I'm 10 stacked, even as a holy pally, I can take down a single feral druid (assuming he doesn't turn tail and run, like they often do). But put 30 versus 100, as my realm so often is, and horde gets our asses handed to us on a consistent basis. Tenacity is broken, yes: it needs MORE power. Yes, that forces the majority team to coordinate better. Q fucking Q, you have numerical superiority, you already have the advantage. We actually did play one mid-day WG, ONE since wrath launched (and I play at least 2 every day, mid-day, without fail), where Horde managed to be the majority. With some coordination and good communication, we stopped the allies from taking the keep, and they were 3 stacked most of the game. Pretty simple when you work together. The tenacity nerf is a terrible idea, and will pretty much seal the fate of anyone who plays on an outnumbered server like Alex and is on the short side of the stick. GG Blizz, GG.

Wall of text but I agree with most of what he/she said.

[amk]

i have yet to see a win with tenacity ( offense or defense) on arthas us even tho i heard stories. Imo it needs a buff to even make a large scale difference. This is a QQ post about a few players getting owned by one player cause had tenacity while the op fails to realize the larger of picture of balancing the teams and making vo accessible to everyone short of rotating it btwn factions

I call BS. On my old server, the Horde regularly had 5-10 stacks of tenacity, and WG exchanged hands pretty much every 2.5 hours.

WG is supposed to be fun, and getting 1 shot by a DPS player with 10 stacks of tenacity isn't fun.

[Svenskpally]

sometimes it is anoying, tho i am on a big server so there is almoste never any of this buffs on anyside, atleast not stacked to 14 tho i have come across a Fearaldruid whit 400k hp.... buff was stacked at 15+ i think. He killed on his own 17 of us cus we only had 1 healer at that workshop. NOT FUN whit there swipe hiting u and allies for 9k --.--

[kaksylt]

i cant understand how people can whine on tenacity i play on shattered halls as alliance and even if tenacity were 10 times as strong we wouldnt have a chance.
we might get 1 raid if we are lucky and hordes got ~1raid per wall so we dont get anywere...

and sure as a rogue i might one shot someone with ambush but after that im screwed i get locked to death no matter what cooldowns i use i mean whats the point in running around with 120k hp and hitting 20k with a mutilate if you cant move, and even if you were to be immune to every stun fear etc you still wouldnt be able to kill people off fast enough for our viechles to get to the walls

~80% we dont even scratch the walls

WG statistics:
hordes cap: 342 hordes def 412
ally cap: 290 ally def: 22

[fl4shi]

Just had my first experience with tenacity buff stacking..

People with 10+ stacks need a freaking 5-man party to kill.

I even fought a SHADOW priest, and she was healing to kill all the time while dealing 4k-5k hits with mind blast and SW.. I'm even afraid to check how high her DoTs ticked..
it was freaking insane, needs a nerf for sure..

you're aware that thats the standard shadow priest dmg?
or rather its lower? :>
i mean without tenacity buff it should be around 4.5k non crit and 9k crit
so if he did 4.5k with tenacity buff... he was reaaaaaaaally bad
dot ticks around 4.5k would be ok
(ps: stopped reading after this)

[Teck12]

Tenacity needs a buff actually, visit the cho'gall realm and then tell me that alliance is OP with tenacity. We average 10-20stacks of tenacity every wintergrasp and of course I can 2shot people but I'm stunned 90% of the time. It SUCKS. You're constantly sheeped/feared/stunned/ all sorts of CCs. The ratio on that server is like 1ally:9horde.

Cho'gall is DEAD.

[LrdPhoenix]

Tenacity works on my server, even though it is slightly annoying for each member of the Horde to magically be super powerful for a game. The Alliance outnumber the Horde by 2.5 to 3.5 times, but we're always around the same number of captures according to Archavon's Journal.

Now, the horde are hopelessly beaten on defense, they have like a total of something like 24 successful defenses compared to ~439 for Alliance, but there are certain times of day that you know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the horde will wind up being in control of Wintergrasp.

But, that's what tenacity is designed to do. It's there so that one side or the other can't entirely dominate Wintergrasp, keeping the other faction from ever controlling it, which is exactly how it'd be on my server if it wasn't around.

Now, what I don't like are the people who log out with full rank and log back in the next WG to pump out 8 siege engines right from the start since their rank doesn't go away.

[ohdissius]

just so everyone of you knows, you are all wrong. Tenacity does not need to be nerfed, or buffed, it needs to be removed completely. WG needs to be remade into a zone that, while battle is active, only equal members from each faction can join. The overpopulated side can bitch all they want, bottom line is that WG is starting to make me not want to play this game anymore. I am on a server that is 4:1 for alliance to horde, and I *NEVER* get to do Vault anymore, not to mention enjoy the extra honor/gear from stone keeper shard collection. If Blizzard would simply remove tenacity, and make that area an equal fight every single time by capping participants to equal amounts, it would solve the problem of imbalanced server populations.

[Deleted]

once i had 20 stacks (it was around 6 am, noone online) so i was running around in tank gear with 200k hp (back in 3.1) and oneshotting almost everyone...

ah, good times ;D

[BurningStick]

Necro much? >

[ComputerNerd]

Tenacity is not overpowered, it just takes coordination to take out those with a substantial amount of it.
And that is where most players are lacking.
If a player cannot go do something solo, then it needs nerfed.

[ara]

On my old server, Lightning's Blade, the alliance always had tenacity. the statistics book inside the keep showed over 1000 defends for horde, and about 50 for ally. Yeah, nerf tenacity. Really though, having tenacity, is like playing 5 people sharing their gcd, and you just get feared or stun locked to death anyway.

[drulz]

One time a Rogue ran into a group of us and used Fan of Knives 3 times and killed about 12 of us in about 5 seconds. I fucking hate tenacity. Alliance on my server always has it and it never ever ever ever helps then win Wintergrasp.

[Omnomnom29]

On my Realm for each hordeplayer are 1,7-2 allies.
In WG Horde usualy got 2-7 tenacity stacks.

the horde won since first WG
320 in offence, 171 in defense
allies won 319 in offence and 361 in defense
these statistics are provided by blizzard in a logbook close to the entry of VoA

so, based on statistics, tenacity is "ok" and does its job.

Those numbers are not proof that tenacity is working, in fact they prove the exact contrary:
The number of wins in offence in Wintergrasp is nearly the same on EVERY server, why?
Because to win in offence the enemy faction has to control it, if you control WG, you cannot win in offence, that means that one faction wins WG, defends it for as long as they can, then the other faction wins it - you cannot get more than one offence win in a row.

The number of games won in defence however, are an indication of which faction usually does better in WG, in your case, the horde is doing more than twice as good as the alliance.

The big problem with tenacity is that it does not protect against CC. I'll go as far as to claim that 2 rogues and a paladin can kill anyone, no matter how much tenacity he has just by stunning him to death. So, 1 solution would be to make tenacity grant an immunity to CCs and silence effects, however this would lead to tenacity making people completely overpowered. Blizzards solution to this problem is to put a limit on the amount of people that can participate in each WG, a bit like an open world battleground, I'm excited to see how it works out.

[Styria]

just so everyone of you knows, you are all wrong.

A year ago, when this discussion was happening, Tenacity was insanely broken.


It's still pretty bad being on the recieving end of it, but IMO it needs to be reworked (nerf hp/damage output/healing taken, but also make it so stuns/cc's/snares and whatnot have reduced duration. Even if you have 100k hp and can 2shot someone, your still going to die if your stun/fear/silence locked for 30 seconds.)

Noting that alliance on my realm is the side with tenacity, i dont think horde has had it once.