Ret High End Enchants

[Byronyk]

I just got the Betrayer of Humanity tonight. I've had Beserking (400 ap proc) on my past two weapons, jawbone and the BS crafted. I was curious to know which is better, 110 Static AP or 400 ap proc. I checked retpaladin.com, yet i could not find any source for new enchants.

Best regards,
Byron

[Adamson]

I have the jawbone and am quite pleased with the 110ap static of massacre.

it's always there.

I also haven't seen any data on which is better yet either.

[Byronyk]

Well i did a few time tests, each 1 minute long. In 3 time tests, it procced 3 times per minute for 15 seconds and did NOT overlap on itself (45 sec total uptime). The 4th test had 4 procs, with one overlap. All in all, i suppose 45 seconds out of a minute with 400ap is > 110 ap for the extra 15 seconds.

I would like to see if anyone else did time tests and get some feedback from them.

Best regards,
Byron

[Svenskpally]

well i say.... Take the moste expensive :P

[Chmur]

Well i did a few time tests, each 1 minute long. In 3 time tests, it procced 3 times per minute for 15 seconds and did NOT overlap on itself (45 sec total uptime). The 4th test had 4 procs, with one overlap. All in all, i suppose 45 seconds out of a minute with 400ap is > 110 ap for the extra 15 seconds.

I would like to see if anyone else did time tests and get some feedback from them.

Best regards,
Byron

I don't suppose you can post combatlog or anything proving this? We are having quite wild debate at EJ not being able to count this enchant properly.

However... Massacre and Berserking are both AP based enchants, with one being drastically expensive. I'd totaly expect Berserking to be way better than Massacre.

btw, 3 procs per minute for total 45 seconds would be:

400*45/60 which is 300 flat AP... compared to 110 Massacre flat. But once again this is anecdotal evidence and unless based on some logs, screens or anything, we can't be sure.

[Byronyk]

Would you mind posting that EJ forum url? Also, i didn't use any combat log recorders or stat mods, all i did was start the timer at the exact time i hit judge/auto swing, count the times the enchant proced, at 1min i hit stop. Simple, and i was able to count which over lapped and which ones did not.

Best regards,
Byron

[Chmur]

Massacre berserking discussion starts midpage here, and carries on till end of thread more or less

http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t36972-r...calculator/p3/

[antidan]

Massacre berserking discussion starts midpage here, and carries on till end of thread more or less

http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t36972-r...calculator/p3/

I think for sustained pve dps the ppm on zerk is high enough to make it overall a better sustained dps model

[Chmur]

I think for sustained pve dps the ppm on zerk is high enough to make it overall a better sustained dps model

It supposedly is better pve enchant. But what is the exact PPM on Bersing? That's the unknown value, not allowing you to count how much better it is. There is no solid proof yet, that's the only concern.

[Offhand]

I think for sustained pve dps the ppm on zerk is high enough to make it overall a better sustained dps model

That was what I was about to ask. Oh well, so much for cheap enchants.

[Chmur]

That was what I was about to ask. Oh well, so much for cheap enchants.

The main point in this comparison however is how much is it better? And thus answering everyone's personal question, what weapon reaches beyond Massacre threshold and is worth putting Berserking on.

The first maths comparing it to Mongoose showed that it's none or minor increase, that you could just frown upon unless min/maxing or venturing into another tier content. On the other hand, if we go with this thread's evidence and agree on 3 not overlapping PPM minimu resulting into 45 sec uptime each minute on average, here are numbers (redcape's weighting):

- Massacre is passive 110 AP
- Berserking is passive 400*45/60 = 300 AP

Massacre (110AP+33SP) - 110*66,36/100 + 33*21,95/100 = 72,999 + 7,244 == 80,243 DPS

Berserking (300AP+90SP) - 300*66,36/100 + 90*21,95/100 = 199,080 + 19,755 == 218,835 DPS

So that would make Berserking a must have even for Naxx entry blue and totaly pay off the enchant price.

Please note this calculations are based on wild assumptions and I am not saying this is how the enchant works. Just providing numbers for evidence posted in this thread.

[Aloysius]

Please note this calculations are based on wild assumptions and I am not saying this is how the enchant works. Just providing numbers for evidence posted in this thread.

Best disclaimer ever :P

[antidan]

The main point in this comparison however is how much is it better? And thus answering everyone's personal question, what weapon reaches beyond Massacre threshold and is worth putting Berserking on.

The first maths comparing it to Mongoose showed that it's none or minor increase, that you could just frown upon unless min/maxing or venturing into another tier content. On the other hand, if we go with this thread's evidence and agree on 3 not overlapping PPM minimu resulting into 45 sec uptime each minute on average, here are numbers (redcape's weighting):

- Massacre is passive 110 AP
- Berserking is passive 400*45/60 = 300 AP

Massacre (110AP+33SP) - 110*66,36/100 + 33*21,95/100 = 72,999 + 7,244 == 80,243 DPS

Berserking (300AP+90SP) - 300*66,36/100 + 90*21,95/100 = 199,080 + 19,755 == 218,835 DPS

So that would make Berserking a must have even for Naxx entry blue and totaly pay off the enchant price.

Please note this calculations are based on wild assumptions and I am not saying this is how the enchant works. Just providing numbers for evidence posted in this thread.

It does not proc 3 times per minute. The proc rate might be 3 times per minute, but there is certainly an internal cooldown > the 15 second duration.

So far my inconclusive (see small sample size) is showig it giving between 130 and 140 ap on average

[Chmur]

Best disclaimer ever :P

Yeah, because I knew something like this will come ->

It does not proc 3 times per minute. The proc rate might be 3 times per minute, but there is certainly an internal cooldown > the 15 second duration.

So far my inconclusive (see small sample size) is showig it giving between 130 and 140 ap on average

As I asked before from the OP - any actual evidence proving this? combat logs? Anything, really? Because if not, then we really can't count it.

[greatrichie]

It does not proc 3 times per minute. The proc rate might be 3 times per minute, but there is certainly an internal cooldown > the 15 second duration.

So far my inconclusive (see small sample size) is showig it giving between 130 and 140 ap on average

After smacking the dummy with this for about an hour, it doesn't have an internal cooldown, and actually refreshed itself multiple times. Definitely the enchant to get for PvE Ret.

[Tigercat]

Careful Richie, these are dangerous waters.

[HollyL]

Berserking > Massacre

[greatrichie]

LOL whats up Tiger!

[Byronyk]

OP here. I'm actually surprised my post hasn't been swallowed up by the sea of other posts :O

Anyways, in regards to actual proof, i don't have any. Then again, it's not that hard to test it yourself. All i did was smack a target dummy for exactly 1 minute, had it proc 3 to 4 times each test. The poster who said it DOES have an internal cooldown is wrong. Test it our yourself and see that if a 15 sec duration is up, it WILL be refreshed by procing a second time.

Best regards,
Byron

[Chmur]

OP here. I'm actually surprised my post hasn't been swallowed up by the sea of other posts :O

Anyways, in regards to actual proof, i don't have any. Then again, it's not that hard to test it yourself. All i did was smack a target dummy for exactly 1 minute, had it proc 3 to 4 times each test. The poster who said it DOES have an internal cooldown is wrong. Test it our yourself and see that if a 15 sec duration is up, it WILL be refreshed by procing a second time.

Best regards,
Byron

Well, no doubt I'll get it for anything better than Destroyer. And I have no reason not to believe you regarding your testing - but unless we have a proof of constant proccing from large sample that can be averaged out into some solid base for tc, it's spinning over and over in:

It can proc 3 times and does overwrite!
(somebody does maths)

Nononono! It can proc max 2 times, and it does not refresh!
(somebody does maths)

Oh no, you are totaly wrong. It can proc every other wednesday, 2 weeks after last full moon after pressing secret keybinding combo.
(somebody does maths)

See what I did there? Bersing is better than Massacre, period. By how much? Who knows