Prot paladins and Kings.

[Divinedoom]

Whatever you say mate.
lets say it like this, I have been rather unlucky when it comes to getting a good tanking weapon, doesnt meen I aint looking for one

RNG can be a *****, hope you get one soon though. i found it great once i got one.

[Arti]

RNG can be a *****, hope you get one soon though. i found it great once i got one.

Yea I know, been doing extensive testing with the random blue quest item tank weapons.
They give tanking stats, and HoR damege incresses alot, not to mention white damage (with reckoning even more), I know this. But tbh a tanking weapon is something you want at a boss, as for moving through raid instance, where there are 6-10+ mobs that need to be tanked, and you move as fast as you can, I prefer my SP one simply because of consecration

Yea HoJ looks nicer, the only problem I am seeing with it is that it never interupts when I want it to. I tried numerous of time on Kelthuzad (the frostbolt) and never worked. Eaither my ICEhud ig bugged or I just dont get it. -.- As for heart of crusader we`ve got a retri pala that allmost allways in the raid.

[Divinedoom]

Thing is i havnt been able to get a sp weapon close to the item lvl of my tanking one, maybe if i did id use it for trash.

[Svenskpally]

SP for tankadin is gone. All spells scales with ap. And strg gives u AP + blockvalu that is very important for a pally. as in the thread about tankadin FQA the is showing that AP enchant gives more dmg on ur spells then SP enchant.

[Arti]

SP for tankadin is gone. All spells scales with ap. And strg gives u AP + blockvalu that is very important for a pally. as in the thread about tankadin FQA the is showing that AP enchant gives more dmg on ur spells then SP enchant.

All but consecration, wich scales with your SP.

BV is imporatant, epecially when you reach the Block Cap, when every attack is automaticlly a block.
AP enchant? no thanks, the best for a tankadin is sadly still the 20+ strength

[Draco cracona]

SP for tankadin is gone. All spells scales with ap. And strg gives u AP + blockvalu that is very important for a pally. as in the thread about tankadin FQA the is showing that AP enchant gives more dmg on ur spells then SP enchant.

Consec scales with both AP and spellpower, but spellpower weaps have more consec threat but less 1-3 target threat from HotR, reckoning is your choice but a purely AoE talent. having 2/2 imp. judgement is a waste, either grab 2/2 or it's filler to get deeper ret for PoJ/conviction. BoK/reckoning/DG/imp. devo/imp. HoJ is all your choice, depending on raid makeup/personal preference, and so is conviction (although SotP is slightly better), HotC and PoJ from ret.

[Deleted]

To answer your question, what are your thoughts on?

I have a simple answer, let the holy paladin take it. This is the holy build I have on my holy paladin alt.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxAzxMzhquMxRtaZVcbx

Of course, I might totally wrong how I have spent my points, especially that 1 point in Purifying power. But that way you improved Kings, improved Wisdom and improved Might. And I believe as protection paladin, you will need all the points you have at your disposal. Spending the extra five points in Kings will prevent you from that.

[Svenskpally]

Kings is so useless as Prot.
It's not important in Heroics, and in raids, you should have either another Paladin having it, that be either Holy or a Retribution Paladin.

This is my recommended spec for a raiding Tankadin, and probably the only one: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZ0xVAbuTteIRGoxb
Having Divine Guardian is a very useful talent, as you'll sometimes have to use Divine Shield, fx in fights where you have to remove debuffs, or heal.

Hope u not are bubbling as MT....
I am using this build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZaxVAcuMteIRGox
NOTE* It works verywell in both HC and Raid. Tho i will remove BoK for Reckoning in a short time cus we have a holy paladin that have BoK and put the 5 talents in Reckoning
So dont think ur Specc is The one and only.

[DaveTheHunter]

I really don't understand why any prot pally wouldn't take full Imp Kings in their spec. What do you give up? Conviction? If you need the threat conviction provides you're doing something wrong to begin with. I have never, and doubtfully will ever spec into conviction unless threat becomes an issue at some point down the road. I can easily sustain 6k tps without it, so why would i need any more? Taking Kings allows for more flexibility in raid buffs among the whole raid. Don't be so selfish to not take it just because you'll never buff yourself with it.

Before it even comes up or questioned, yes I am my guild's MT.

[Mishella]

Considering im playing prot for 10 man raids only, and we don't have neither a holy pally or retri pally, i'm taking both kings and heart of the crusader. Obviously that means i can't have BoK on me, but other people in the raid can benefit from it without me sacrificing any important talents.

ofc, it there were a retri or holy paladin then i wouldn't need to have bok anymore, considering that i could get the other pally to bless me with it

[mrtim81]

Heart of crusader is pointless as much as conviction. Points are better used in Reckoning, Pursuit of Justice and Divine guardian.

Reckoning, PoJ, and DG are all garbage protection talents.

DG is a holy pvp talent. You should never bubble as prot unless something has gone seriously wrong. Like the rare chances that it's you and a dps still alive with the boss at 1%, and you have to bubble-taunt so you can heal and still have a shot at taking him down. You should never spec for that.

PoJ is nice, but once again, its a pvp talent. The disarm thing is worthless for protection. "Oh no, I got disarmed...what will I do to hold aggro? Oh yeah, Judge/SotR(Rank1&2)/Cons/Exorsim(HW)/Holy Shiled??" You should never spec it.

Reckoning is just an all around worthless talent (unless you're leveling up as protection, and for some reason you want to try to 5 man old instances vs getting someone to run you through it). Seeing how you can already lay down a 5 stack of vengence in about 2 seconds, why would you need a proc to swing faster? Never spec it.

A good general rule to go by is, If you are the only paladin, you NEED to take Kings. Its too good not to have. Conviction in my opinion is a luxury. If you are sure you are always going to have another paladin that doesn't mind taking it all the time, then it would be ok to get conviction. If not, you need to step up, be a team player and take it. Conviction is not as important. If you dont mind wasting the gold, you can spec it back and forth depending on the raid comp, but someone should ALWAYS have it.

[Offhand]

PoJ is nice, but once again, its a pvp talent. The disarm thing is worthless for protection. "Oh no, I got disarmed...what will I do to hold aggro? Oh yeah, Judge/SotR(Rank1&2)/Cons/Exorsim(HW)/Holy Shiled??" You should never spec it.

PoJ is excellent in movement fights. Seeing as paladins don't have any sort of charge effect, the 15% increase stacks up.

[Apostolic]

Here is the way out Guild is running the Paladin Buffs and Paladins

Protadin:1 Buffs Sanc on everyone
Holadin: 2 - One Kings; One Wisdom
Retadin: 2 - One is Full DPS spec buffing Might; Second is Utility Spec buffing Nothing.

[lumnights]

Can someone with free time (this afternoon) do the math on this one?

For Holy Paladins, spec'ing 5/5 into Kings means that you lose 3% crit, but if you're casting it on yourself (as holy)...

Positive-
• How much mana are you gaining from the extra int?
• How much more spellpower are you gaining from the int?
• How much crit are you gaining from the extra int?
• How much mp5 are you gaining from the extra spirit (might be moot since the advent of Divine Plea)
• Anything someone else can think of

Negative-
• How much mp5 are you losing not using Blessing of Wisdom (you could also save your 2 talent points in holy from not spec'ing into Imp.BoW if BoK turns out to be worth it, maybe put them into Purifying Power. Also note that you may gain more mana from Kings than you would regen with mp5 during any reasonable amount of time, i.e. a boss fight)
• Anything someone else can think of

I'd do this myself, but I don't have a lvl 80 holy pally (72 waaah), I'm lazy, and I'm at work. I think the paladin community needs these numbers to make a determination of any authority on the Holy-should-spec-kings issue. We shouldn't need exact numbers, approximations ought to do the job.

If I get home and am bored later, I'll respec and see how my numbers changed and report back.

Peace all.

[Vasir]

The problem with preot & holy is that they are to bloated, the only spec that has enough talent points to spend on Kings without nerfing itself iis lolret.

Besides lolret should be happy, at least they're guarenteed a raid spot with Kings.

[Kare]

Kings is so useless as Prot.
It's not important in Heroics, and in raids, you should have either another Paladin having it, that be either Holy or a Retribution Paladin.

This is my recommended spec for a raiding Tankadin, and probably the only one: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZ0xVAbuTteIRGoxb
Having Divine Guardian is a very useful talent, as you'll sometimes have to use Divine Shield, fx in fights where you have to remove debuffs, or heal.

Kings is useless if you are spec'ed into it as a Prot Paladin, however it is very very good for any Prot Paladin as a buff. I mean an extra 2.8-3.2k HP + 10% More Strength/Agility to assist in your Block/Dodge, that seems like a pretty big deal to me for a small buff. So it is important for a Prot Paladin just they should not have to spec into it.

Second, your spec scares me for a few reasons and no I am not going to bash you or call you a nub, just offer some insightful guidance. Divine Guardian is not useful for a Prot Paladin because unless you are wiping, you should never be throwing up Divine Shield. It drops all your threat which is what you should be trying to hold onto if you are tanking, and unless your healers are incompetent, you shouldn't need to be healing yourself during a boss encounter. So, Divine Guardian = No. Second, Reckoning is a bad idea unless your goal is to get a Parry, Parry, Parry, Parry, SMASH. ;D

My personal suggestion for a Prot Paladin would be the following:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZ0xVAcuMteIRhoxf00b

You might ask why I picked up a couple of things in this spec and I will explain why I did.
Improved Hammer of Justice - Reduces the Cooldown on a Stun/Silence ability. Amazing, I know.
Heart of the Crusader - You have a 3% higher chance to crit with your Judgements, Shield of Righteousness, etc, which boosts threat, as well as your DPS will love the extra 3% chance to crit on whatever mob/boss you are tanking.
Pursuit of Justice - "Reduces the duration of all Disarm effects by 50%." Need I say more?

And no, you should not need Benediction, if you are using BoSanc and have healers healing you, as well as hitting with Judgement of Wisdom, you should be fine.

The problem with Protection Paladins ever taking Kings is the fact that it is a buff that helps them ALOT, however they can not buff themselves with Kings and Sanctuary, however a Prot Paladin can buff a Holy Paladin with Wisdom while the Holy Paladin gives them both Kings, same with Ret giving out Kings and the Prot Paladin giving them Might.

My personal suggestion towards any Holy Paladins is the following build and many will thank you for using it.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sxA0xuzhVuMxRtaZVf0x

Luckily, I do not have this problem in my guild because I have a Ret Paladin that willingly spec'ed into Kings, like the smart Paladin he is. ;D

[kmp1331]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=000000000000

thats the holy build i use (since I tend to end up being dispell bitch ), and i've specced kings as long as i can remember just for utility in raids. any thoughts on the rest of it as a pve spec?

[Imbadin]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...h=000000000000
holy build ... crit is huge !

so i suggest to get kings as prot, or get a ret-pala with kings

[WeaponD]

Your Holy paladin should take BoK, not Prot. This is because you want your tank to have Kings, but you also want them to have the 3% damage reduction from BoSanc. Since Holy is never speccing in to BoSanc, that one will be the Prot pally's buff, and the Holy pally is free to do Kings, Imp Wis or Imp Might as desired.

In a 25 player setting, a Ret pally should most definitely have Kings, since A) in a proper PvE spec Ret has more points than it needs, and B) as mentioned before, Holy will be getting both Imp Wisdom and Imp Might, mostly as filler talents for later tiers. If Holy is going to have the improved version of those buffs anyway, you're better off having them put them up. Ret paladins may go for Imp Might, but they don't need it the way Holy does to get to a later tier. Ret has no way to pick up Imp Wisdom.

So...
Holy - Imp Might/Imp Wisdom
Prot - BoSanc (remember, aside from the avoidance benefits, this is 3% less damage taken by everyone in the raid)
Ret - Kings

[Justîcar]

Your Holy paladin should take BoK, not Prot. This is because you want your tank to have Kings, but you also want them to have the 3% damage reduction from BoSanc. Since Holy is never speccing in to BoSanc, that one will be the Prot pally's buff, and the Holy pally is free to do Kings, Imp Wis or Imp Might as desired.

In a 25 player setting, a Ret pally should most definitely have Kings, since A) in a proper PvE spec Ret has more points than it needs, and B) as mentioned before, Holy will be getting both Imp Wisdom and Imp Might, mostly as filler talents for later tiers. If Holy is going to have the improved version of those buffs anyway, you're better off having them put them up. Ret paladins may go for Imp Might, but they don't need it the way Holy does to get to a later tier. Ret has no way to pick up Imp Wisdom.

So...
Holy - Imp Might/Imp Wisdom
Prot - BoSanc (remember, aside from the avoidance benefits, this is 3% less damage taken by everyone in the raid)
Ret - Kings

Word