My thoughts on prot 11 pt

[zarondd]

With the single target ranged taunt being reality, I've began giving some thought to this possibility.

Move Avenger's Shield to 11, change it to Avenger's Throw and take away the shield requirement. Tweak the damage.

It used to be one of the few ways a protdin could hope to range pull, but now that point is moot.
In terms of instant threat or AoE threat, HoR and ShoR and scaling judgements makes a 30s CD low-med damage instant redundant. That and threat being largely phased out to begin with.

While it is not a true gap closer(ret)/widener(holy) or snare, it can marginally do the job without getting us flamed. The spell is already there and requires little "programming (effort) and testing (care)" to work it in.

Prot itself could do better with a 41 that has some other useful effect, possibly some anti-caster ability (ie interrupt) or another "o shit button" (redundant IMO, but some prots have suggested a desire for one).

[Kavalir]

this suggestion would only affect ret pallys causing more QQ about them, and more nerfs.

[Dimelos]

Not sure if I got exactly what you saying, but you mean that we should just use the new taunt as our regular opening move? If that's what you mean I don't think that's a good idea.

[fendrix]

I think an good 11 point prot ablity would be something that increases SP by XXX armor.

[Offhand]

The 11 point prot talent shouldn't end up increasing ret dps. And a distance closer...

[Lumidar]

no a distance closer should be a 31pt talent. that's why I suggested they move Sanctuary to 11pt and holy shield to 21pt. then make he new 31pt talent be this distance closer similar to death grip for DKs.

They say they want to make Prot viable in PVP yet we have no way to close Disance on people and they just kite us endlessly. not only that but we're a JOKE to other classes who pvp cus they know how easy it is to kill us by kiting. Our only defense agains kiting is the daze from Avenger's shield but by the time you catch up to them they'll use a skill to distance themselves again. I REALLY want a distance closer as prot. Ret has pursuit of justice, the talent that removes stun with hand of freedom and Repentance.

[EbGbZ]

Prot has already been said to not be getting an 11pt talent unless PROT needs something. Post is still on the front page atm I believe.

"We will give Protection and Holy new abilities in those slots if we think you need them or we have some hole to fill." (Source)

[Kavalir]

They say they want to make Prot viable in PVP yet we have no way to close Disance on people and they just kite us endlessly.

Id love you to find the blue post thats says they wanted to make prot viable for pvp so I can bitch at GMs more

[Dorcas]

Prot needs something to use vs casters IMO. Warriors got shieldbash and spellreflect, DK got Antimagic shield, mind freeze and strangulate, guess druids doesnt have anything either, but that doesnt justify that paladins doesnt have anything, does it?

Id either like a long-range silence/interupt or a caster-migtation button (nothing passive, that aint as fun ^^)

[underdogba]

Once the single-target taunt is added, IMO prot is totally fine as far as talents go.

The major concern I see in the near future is the situation with Judgment of Light threat, and it baffles me why this is such a complicated problem. IMO it should give heal aggro consistent with game mechanics, it's really no different in principle than Vampiric Embrace. If that means that you're going to see heal aggro spikes, then paladins who don't want the threat should learn to wait to judge.

[Elementium]

pardon my ignorance but i'm a little new to Pally tanking.. protection is missing an 11 point talent?

[b37x]

The 11 point prot talent shouldn't end up increasing ret dps. And a distance closer...

Mutually exclusive. Once I'm in melee range my dps increases dramatically.

[Offhand]

Mutually exclusive. Once I'm in melee range my dps increases dramatically.

The problem is that the possibility of an 11-point prot talent is more or less being eyed as something for ret PvP at this point. An 11 point prot talent needs to:

1) Have an actual tanking use
2) Not increase ret damage by any significant amount

I appreciate your attempt to be witty but don't expect a snare/MS effect/silence, it's not what prot needs.

[Thyce]

Noooooooo, they be takin' mah Avenger's Shield!!!
Don't touch my shield.
It's the entire reason I originally fell into tanking.
Srsly.
But no, this is a bad idear, we got a single taunt, this is our opener. Ret got it's pull, with this, it'd cause more QQ from tankadins (And I'd be leading it), and QQ from other classes saying Ret's having this is OP.
I don't see why we can't just go back to BoK as our 11-point, can any one else explain why?

[Sungamnori]

because 2% BoK should be baseline, and prot talents should increase it to 10%

[Dysfunction]

I agree with Thyce, move BoK back. It's a little less stressful, since I play a ret paladin and always had to sacrifice good ret talents to spec into BoK. But since it costs 4 extra points, it's not helping at all.

If a 11 point ability really has to be implemented, make it something that requires shields, or something that would not increase ret dps, because that would just be worse altogether, since people would QQ on ret OPness and just nerf the ability, or ret as a whole, making it pretty useless.

[Lumidar]

Id love you to find the blue post thats says they wanted to make prot viable for pvp so I can bitch at GMs more

One of our goals coming into LK was to "fix" tanking. This included a lot of changes --
-- Making sure threat wasn't so frustrating, especially AE threat
-- Making sure all 4 tanks could handle the same encounters
-- Make sure tanks who were missing key tools got them (I realize the word "key" is open to interpretation)
-- Making sure tanks could upgrade their gear in a reasonable fashion
-- Making sure tanks didn't have to spend all of their talents on pure mitigation
-- Making sure tanks weren't so terrible in PvP or solo situations

there's other posts he's made more related to prot warrior and pvp viability but i can't find it right now. i'd need more time to look it up.

[iktankniet]

I agree with Thyce, move BoK back. It's a little less stressful, since I play a ret paladin and always had to sacrifice good ret talents to spec into BoK. But since it costs 4 extra points, it's not helping at all.

If a 11 point ability really has to be implemented, make it something that requires shields, or something that would not increase ret dps, because that would just be worse altogether, since people would QQ on ret OPness and just nerf the ability, or ret as a whole, making it pretty useless.

i dont know how you spec, but my spec is good as it is and has BoK in it.

[Offhand]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZ0xVAcuMteIRhoxo is truly the only talents you are required to take. Everything else depends on group make up and personal choice.

Things like JotJ, heart of the crusader, or imp might will depend on who else is in the raid.

I don't spec for kings simply because I can't buff myself and other tanks with both kings and sanc. Ideally ret and barring that holy can cover for kings instead.

[monalin]

One of our goals coming into LK was to "fix" tanking. This included a lot of changes --
-- Making sure threat wasn't so frustrating, especially AE threat
-- Making sure all 4 tanks could handle the same encounters
-- Make sure tanks who were missing key tools got them (I realize the word "key" is open to interpretation)
-- Making sure tanks could upgrade their gear in a reasonable fashion
-- Making sure tanks didn't have to spend all of their talents on pure mitigation
-- Making sure tanks weren't so terrible in PvP or solo situations

there's other posts he's made more related to prot warrior and pvp viability but i can't find it right now. i'd need more time to look it up.

Right now in duels. The only class that has managed to beat me consistently is a frost mage. If I duel a prot warrior and they're skilled, they can pose a problem too mostly because their shield slam removes all my buffs ( sanct, SoW etc ). If i spec into the ret tree a little more i could avoid that but i'm PvE prot not PvP.

Very rarely do I actually loose a duel as prot. Now I know that the arena is a completely different situation and prot pallys wont do so well in the arena, but you can still go into a BG and have some fun pwnin noobs with your 8K shieldslam.