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  1. #1

    Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Which would be better for affliction and why? More haste to spit out more shadow bolts inbetween dot refreshes or more crit to increase pandemic procs and whatnot? Which do you think and why? Which would be more valuable to stack after spellpower and hit? Any information on this would be great, thanks in advance.
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  2. #2
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Keep them up to pair at start. At the point when you can upgrade haste s significally then I personally will stack it more than crit at that point. More SB is more damage than few SB with slightly more crits. Also keep in mind easier to apply U-A, haunt, Immolation at that point as a sideeffect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  3. #3

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Depending on your raid make-up you might also elect to let crit slide a little bit in favor of haste, because of the crit gain you'll see from raid members.

  4. #4

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Haste isn't as great for affliction warlocks because most of their dps comes from the relatively short time span spent dot'ing with the rest of the time spent supplementing relatively lower dps shadowbolts.

    Buying more time just to shadowbolt doesn't offer as much dps as a more homogoneous dps class like frostfire mages.

  5. #5

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Actually, according to SimulationCraft, affliction scales better with haste than crit (http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput)
    I'm pretty sure this is because haste allows tighter rotations; that is, you'll be less often caught casting shadow bolt when a DoT needs refreshed, not increasing Sbolt'ing time so much as minimizing DoT downtime. Haste scales infinitely better with Drain Soul as well, which is a huge portion of your damage.

  6. #6
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ofmanv
    Haste isn't as great for affliction warlocks because most of their dps comes from the relatively short time span spent dot'ing with the rest of the time spent supplementing relatively lower dps shadowbolts.

    Buying more time just to shadowbolt doesn't offer as much dps as a more homogoneous dps class like frostfire mages.
    SB is standing for the biggest post of damage in an afflictionlocks cycle and as long as it does haste will be good.

    Also,l people still forget that the more haste you got the easier your cyclemanagement will be. I will aim for maybe 60% haste focus, not counting spellstones.
    Others might not agree but I dont buy that crit is so much better since its in theorycraft, actual raiding equal moving which in turn equal haste is lovely when to catch up with the cycle on those nasty casttime dots

    Ops, forgot. When Death's Embrace kicks in (and this is where we do a big chunk of our total damage) then is damn lovely to have all that haste when channeling Drain Soul
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  7. #7

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    All the math says haste....to a point. Haste makes all your other dmg stats better by the amount of haste you have. Thus its always a battle of a larger modifier of a smaller number or a smaller modifier to a bigger number. The other thing is that item budget crit and haste cost the same but haste gets more % per point. I prefer to keep them about the same (not overstacking either) but mainly focus on dmg as affliction. You will never get that much back out of item point crit stacking as you can get from skills in talent trees or raid makeup/buffs. Personally if I have to pick one I'll take haste since many times squeezing in that last dot, bolt, tap, etc makes a large difference. If you get interupted its also nice to put up your dots as soon as possible. As Bakis said...drain soul loves haste. (mmm...heroism and DS) So far I don't see pandemic kicking in hard enough to weigh crit higher than haste. (like most of us did in BC 0/21/40 till 4x T6 and about 30% crit when haste started rocking hard)
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  8. #8
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Haste is better if you factor in a pure dps rotation with a static latency time.

    Crit is better if you run around a lot and have your latency jump from ~50 to ~300 randomly.

    Either way, you shouldn't shirk either stat just because its there. They are both a dps increase, and haste makes your other stats scale better. Maybe this is what SimulationCraft is talking about?

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  9. #9

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    I think more haste will lessen the effect of eradication and other raid haste buffs. 20% haste of a 3.00sec SB is better than 20% haste of a 2.00sec SB. I may be wrong to when the % increase is added (before gear haste or after).

  10. #10

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    I dont know if anyone was aware of this or it has already been suggested, or even if its still arround however in TBC there was a certain addon which as a lock i found huge use for, Dr Damage.

    Basically it would take your gear and skills into consideration and give you a number that you would have to increacse that skill by to gain an extra 1% of dps.

    For example it could read

    Haste 10 - 1%
    Spell dmg 25 - 1%
    Crit 4 - 1%

    In this scenario based upon your already existing gear updating your crit rating by 4 points would give you an extra 1% dps output, therefore choosing between dmg/crit/haste was no longer a problem, the idea is to use all 3 to keep up your maximum dps without having to sacrafice other aspects of gear eg. choosing all haste or all crit.

    Definately worth a check helped no ends when we were killing Mu'ru.

  11. #11
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlöck
    I dont know if anyone was aware of this or it has already been suggested, or even if its still arround however in TBC there was a certain addon which as a lock i found huge use for, Dr Damage.

    Basically it would take your gear and skills into consideration and give you a number that you would have to increacse that skill by to gain an extra 1% of dps.

    For example it could read

    Haste 10 - 1%
    Spell dmg 25 - 1%
    Crit 4 - 1%

    And exactly how does DrDamage (which I myslef used) take into account if a fight is stationary or movementbased? Answer is nothing.

    People need to know how to distinguish theorycraft (stationary) fights from "irl" fights in a raid.

    In this scenario based upon your already existing gear updating your crit rating by 4 points would give you an extra 1% dps output, therefore choosing between dmg/crit/haste was no longer a problem, the idea is to use all 3 to keep up your maximum dps without having to sacrafice other aspects of gear eg. choosing all haste or all crit.

    Definately worth a check helped no ends when we were killing Mu'ru.
    Dr.Damage = theroycraft
    Real raiding = not theorycraft cos it involves movement
    Dr.Damage and theorycraft in general is perfect to get a hint on how to do stuff under perfect conditions.

    The only ppl that think raiding is anywhere near perfect conditions are cluless PvPtrolls
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  12. #12

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by WeS_
    I think more haste will lessen the effect of eradication and other raid haste buffs. 20% haste of a 3.00sec SB is better than 20% haste of a 2.00sec SB. I may be wrong to when the % increase is added (before gear haste or after).
    No. 20% with 2.00 seconds is exactly the same as 20% with 3.00 - it's 20% more casts in the span of time. Yes, the actually numerical value is different, but that is irrelevant. In both situations you get 20% more casts than you would without Eradication.

    And no, you shouldn't stack one or the other. Find out rough EP weights (like SimulationCraft), and then compare the DPS increase available from all different pieces of gear. On pieces that are close, choose based on availability or preference (one has more spirit than the other, etc). Point-for-point, crit will probably never be better than haste on bosses, mostly because of Drain Soul. But gear varies, sometimes the piece of haste gear sucks compared to the piece of crit gear.

  13. #13

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Please don't mention PvP its the only glitch in a otherwise good game.

  14. #14
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Eradication doesnt stack with haste gear so if u got 10% haste fromg ear u will recieve 10% from eradaction. That is why the general conclusion is that putting more than 1p in Eradication is to some extent unwise. Point 2 & 3 will bring much less too it.

    For more info search the next page of threads on MMO warlocksforum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  15. #15

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis
    Eradication doesnt stack with haste gear
    but what about gear procs?
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  16. #16

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Everything stacks with everything.

    Base shadow bolt is 2.5 seconds, giving you 40 shadowbolts every 100 seconds.
    You have 328 haste rating (10%), dropping shadow bolt cast down to 2.27, giving you 44 sbolts every 100 seconds, 10% more than before.
    You get a haste proc of 492 haste (15%), dropping sbolt cast down to 1.79, giving you 50.6 sbolts every 100 seconds (15% more than before).
    Then Eradication procs, giving you 20% haste and dropping sbolt cast down to 1.65 seconds, giving you 60.72 casts every 100 seconds (20% more than before).

    People often mistake this in that Eradication gets "diminishing returns" from haste gear because of the way it works, because it only takes off ~.14 seconds off the casting time with all that haste versus taking ~.43 seconds with no other haste. This is a misunderstanding of how haste works; it's still 20% more casts than would have gotten off in any period of time.

    EDIT: I accidentally put the haste proc as 20% haste when it's only 15%.

  17. #17

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Quote Originally Posted by lsfreak
    Everything stacks with everything.
    I'd thought that was the case as well.
    I recall the 2.4 patch saying something about haste not stacking, but everything that I'd found in raids showed it only to be concurrent with Heroism.

    maybe the haste was changed from calculating base cast to the current haste % at the time you have.
    like instead of giving a sbolt the full untalented 3 second benefit of haste from its base cast time stacking with your current gear bringing it down to 2.5 -it only benefits from the 2.5 your current haste delivers..

    or something to that effect..

    I don't number crunch so blah, you get what I'm saying i hope.
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  18. #18

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    Haste stacks with eradication and stacks with haste procs and stacks with bloodlust and with totems... I have had situations where my sb were casting at 1.2ish seconds and when these can crit for 11k thats alot of dps

  19. #19
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    ehrm eradication does not
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  20. #20

    Re: Affliction, Haste or Crit?

    It depends what you mean when you say "haste" Erad does not give "haste" per se but just increases casting speed by 20%....now I have to be honest and say that I do not know if this is the casting speed POST haste or pre haste....ie for shad bolts, is that 20% calc from 2.5s original cast time or from 2.1s once base haste is added in.

    I know that when erad pops in a raid my bolts go from 1.9secs to 1.8 secs and then when embrace pops also down to 1.3s....not had an occurance of bloodlust at the same time as only recently acquired the embrace, however i think this will further reduce the cast time judging by what I have read.

    Mal.

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