Latest WL bluepost + translation here!

[Janaa]

4.) FU damn Blizzard fanboy. You are obviously not playing a WL. Could it be, that you are only afraid of being owned by a WL with 0 skill again?

And see - this is the problem. Thanks for proving it yourself. Warlocks with zero skill COULD own players in the past. Everybody should be afraid of being owned by ANY CLASS with "0 skill". Why mock him for it?

What I hate about all the warlock QQing, is for the most part all it is comprised of is "fucks-sake, just make us OP again so we can DoT-and-forget." I don't see well-played warlocks having any trouble in arena, with the exception of against death knights. But then, most players of most classes have trouble with death knights.

Please warlocks - stop posting thread after thread after thread that simply say "We want to roflpwn everything before they can reach us, again..". There are genuine issues with balancing PVE with PVP.

Warlocks insist on having very high dps in PVE because "We're a pure DPS class! We should be just as high as all other DPS!". The thing warlocks like to ignore, is other DPS classes obtain those levels with a minimum of interruption or distraction. A hunter DPSing a boss isn't having to constantly run around, lay traps, disengage, isn't getting stunned, isn't getting dazed, isn't getting feared, isn't constantly having to change direction, etc. Take the same hunter and throw them into arena and their DPS drops by 2/3rds.

An afflic warlock on the other hand, mostly casts instant DoTs. They can do this while moving, even facing in the wrong direction! And somehow they insist on the same DPS in arena and on bosses. Srsly. Delusions of grandeur. Warlocks were OP for arena in the past because the class wasn't designed with arenas in mind. Warlocks then get balanced, and start QQing they can't ez-mode every single class in the game.

So what if you have an anti-class or two? I have four or five.

[Janaa]

It´s ok for me if he does high meele damage on me. But FU Blizzard, I am the caster and I think I should do more damage with an magic range spell than a meele Paladin. What does he need a high damage instant range spell for?

Err - by who's definition is a paladin solely a melee class? All our heals are ranged. Every one of our special abilities has a range except crusader strike and divine storm. (Judgements and Holy Shock have 40/20 yard ranges). That's two out of 26 active abilties. That's less than 10% melee abilities as ret. Even fewer as holy (no crusader strike or divine storm - EVERY spell is ranged, of course whacking the target helps enchance those abilities). The only truly melee pally class is tanks..

Think before you post. Kkthxscrub.

[TerryBogard]

And see - this is the problem. Thanks for proving it yourself. Warlocks with zero skill COULD own players in the past. Everybody should be afraid of being owned by ANY CLASS with "0 skill". Why mock him for it?

Rogues have been facerolling since day 1. Thanks for trolling. Besides thats just not true. Up to a 1700 rating locks could pwn face without really trying that hard. However once you got into the higher ratings that became less and less true. Rogues, Warriors, Druids, and mages started winning out over locks when playing at a higher level of skill. Your argument is flawed because it is a "talking point" that is not based on fact nor reality.

What I hate about all the warlock QQing, is for the most part all it is comprised of is "fucks-sake, just make us OP again so we can DoT-and-forget." I don't see well-played warlocks having any trouble in arena, with the exception of against death knights. But then, most players of most classes have trouble with death knights.

Actually when you go into any of the class forums ALL of the QQing is about make us OP kthxbai. That is because a high population of the player base is comprised of children who do not understand game mechanics. This trend is not isolated in the Warlock comunity. However if you read through the garbage posts and the trolls you will come to posts that had valid arguments and real concerns/ideas. You will find that rational players do not want to be OP; they want to be able to win and lose based entirely on skill level.

Please warlocks - stop posting thread after thread after thread that simply say "We want to roflpwn everything before they can reach us, again..". There are genuine issues with balancing PVE with PVP.

Its called DISCUSSION. If you do not want to participate then do not read the threads. I think you do want to troll, though, because you need a reason to bitch about something.

Warlocks insist on having very high dps in PVE because "We're a pure DPS class! We should be just as high as all other DPS!". The thing warlocks like to ignore, is other DPS classes obtain those levels with a minimum of interruption or distraction. A hunter DPSing a boss isn't having to constantly run around, lay traps, disengage, isn't getting stunned, isn't getting dazed, isn't getting feared, isn't constantly having to change direction, etc. Take the same hunter and throw them into arena and their DPS drops by 2/3rds.

An afflic warlock on the other hand, mostly casts instant DoTs. They can do this while moving, even facing in the wrong direction! And somehow they insist on the same DPS in arena and on bosses. Srsly. Delusions of grandeur. Warlocks were OP for arena in the past because the class wasn't designed with arenas in mind. Warlocks then get balanced, and start QQing they can't ez-mode every single class in the game.

Affliction currently have the toughest rotations in the game which is why it only seems fair that they be able to DPS well because of it. "1 button macros" do not work for warlocks as they need to keep all DoTs up at all times and not clip any of them.

Also you will find that EVERY PURE DPS CLASS wants to DPS well. Makes me wonder if you have ever actually played the game or just watched youtube videos for all your information.

Oh and I believe it was S1-S2 when locks were OP. That was because fear did not break on damage and no one had an immunity to it. Now every class has a fear removal or fear immunity except for Warlocks (irony), it suffer from a DR that is share with Howl of Terror and Seduce, and fear has been nerfed to hell and breaks on damage after one Shadowbolt. It is also S5 so please stop living in the past. "What about S4?" you say. Druids carried Warlocks because of their OP ability to heal and locks having Fel Armor was the reason for this. It was an OP classing creating the illusion that Warlocks were OP because they had good synergy with healing. End of story.

So what if you have an anti-class or two? I have four or five.

Actually any class with a stun or fear immunity (especially true for melee) is currently a Warlock counter class. That would be all but one class which is a little higher than one or two.



What class do you even play? I would really love to hear this

[Ofmanv]

And see - this is the problem. Thanks for proving it yourself. Warlocks with zero skill COULD own players in the past. Everybody should be afraid of being owned by ANY CLASS with "0 skill". Why mock him for it?

What I hate about all the warlock QQing, is for the most part all it is comprised of is "fucks-sake, just make us OP again so we can DoT-and-forget." I don't see well-played warlocks having any trouble in arena, with the exception of against death knights. But then, most players of most classes have trouble with death knights.

Please warlocks - stop posting thread after thread after thread that simply say "We want to roflpwn everything before they can reach us, again..". There are genuine issues with balancing PVE with PVP.

Warlocks insist on having very high dps in PVE because "We're a pure DPS class! We should be just as high as all other DPS!". The thing warlocks like to ignore, is other DPS classes obtain those levels with a minimum of interruption or distraction. A hunter DPSing a boss isn't having to constantly run around, lay traps, disengage, isn't getting stunned, isn't getting dazed, isn't getting feared, isn't constantly having to change direction, etc. Take the same hunter and throw them into arena and their DPS drops by 2/3rds.

An afflic warlock on the other hand, mostly casts instant DoTs. They can do this while moving, even facing in the wrong direction! And somehow they insist on the same DPS in arena and on bosses. Srsly. Delusions of grandeur. Warlocks were OP for arena in the past because the class wasn't designed with arenas in mind. Warlocks then get balanced, and start QQing they can't ez-mode every single class in the game.


So what if you have an anti-class or two? I have four or five.

What past are you referring to? You mean the past in arenas where warlocks were 5th most represented in 2s, 6th in 3s and 7th in 5s?

Now, I sympathize with hunters for being bottom of the barrel for 4 straight seasons. Otherwise no other class didn't at least have 1 bracket they were top 4 in.

[Janaa]

Actually when you go into any of the class forums ALL of the QQing is about make us OP kthxbai. That is because a high population of the player base is comprised of children who do not understand game mechanics. This trend is not isolated in the Warlock comunity. However if you read through the garbage posts and the trolls you will come to posts that had valid arguments and real concerns/ideas. You will find that rational players do not want to be OP; they want to be able to win and lose based entirely on skill level.

Indeed. However, I was not replying to rational argument, I was replying to irrational "we want to beat you with zero skill". If my comments do not apply to you, you need not take offense to them.

Its called DISCUSSION. If you do not want to participate then do not read the threads. I think you do want to troll, though, because you need a reason to bitch about something.

I get 15 minutes for lunch. I'll read the five threads listed on the front page, but that's all I've got time for. At home, I CONTRIBUTE to the official forums. Why I picked this one to reply to is simply because it was another irrational QQ, of exactly the type you're saying is trolling. Every post in this thread by the OP is full of fail. He might be coming from a legitimate angle, but almost everything he says is irrelevant whinge.

Affliction currently have the toughest rotations in the game

Says affliction warlocks..

"1 button macros" do not work for warlocks as they need to keep all DoTs up at all times and not clip any of them.

Which classes do one-button macros work for in 3.x?

Also you will find that EVERY PURE DPS CLASS wants to DPS well. Makes me wonder if you have ever actually played the game or just watched youtube videos for all your information.

Ah now I understand, you took what I said out of context and replaced it with your own inference. Of course they should DPS well. In PVE content they should DPS just as highly as any other DPS class. The argument I was making is that they should not DPS as highly in PVP as they do in PVE. I can't think of a single other class that does, yet warlocks (in the majority of QQ posts) are complaining because they can't DPS as high as PVE, therefore their PVP is broken because of PVE balances. If my hunter was PVPing with the 4000+ dps it's doing in raids, any arena would be over in 8 seconds.

If warlocks DPSd the same in both PVE and PVP, it means one of two things - 1) they're gimped in PVE. 2) They're OP in PVP.

Oh and I believe it was S1-S2 when locks were OP. That was because fear did not break on damage and no one had an immunity to it. Now every class has a fear removal or fear immunity except for Warlocks (irony),

Wait what? Pallys can remove the fear once every 5 minutes. Hunters can remove it once every minute for 4 seconds (and only if their pet isn't feared as well..). I'm not going to comment specifically on other classes, but a once-every-5 minutes and a situational pet remove vs a spammed fear doesn't exactly mean the ability is useless anymore.

it suffer from a DR that is share with Howl of Terror and Seduce, and fear has been nerfed to hell and breaks on damage after one Shadowbolt.

So its been brought in line with traps, repentance, etc? Balance is a good thing, yes?

What class do you even play? I would really love to hear this

Holy pally purely for raiding, hunter for a bit of both. Why would you love to hear? You thought I played OP arena classes? Guess again. It's going to be another great "bottom of the barrel" season for hunters!

[direlock]

Actually your huntard in blues is at this point out DPS'ing everyone...seems reasonable.

[geonexus]

i was under the impression that the current no. 1 2v2 arena team has a hunter in it... yet in the list i saw i didn't see a single lock.......

[geonexus]

also i have yet to see a more difficult rotation than the current affliction rotation.

oh and we have 3 instant cast dots. 1 of which cant be used with CoE,CoEx,CoT ect...

[Bakis]

An afflic warlock on the other hand, mostly casts instant DoTs. They can do this while moving, even facing in the wrong direction! And somehow they insist on the same DPS in arena and on bosses. Srsly. Delusions of grandeur. Warlocks were OP for arena in the past because the class wasn't designed with arenas in mind. Warlocks then get balanced, and start QQing they can't ez-mode every single class in the game.

Jaana, you do understand the our instants are useless in arena on their own, that all damage (and dispel"resistance") is linked to castingtime spells?
No you dont..

Gl getting anything killed with your 3 instants in Arena...

Also, you make it pretty obvious that you dont have a clue on afflictionlock gameplay. Affliction is THE hardest spec to play ingame. If we screw up the cycle due to movement or simply bad gameplay our dps plummits. No other class lose as much damage as an affliction lock does. The sane warlockcommunity isn't whining about the damage in PvE but how warlocks get to suffer 3 times as much from movement<>dps than other classes.

Myself im one of the lucky few that can handle it but if I see other warlocks, 90% of them will struggle like hell and still be crap :-X

Balance for me personally also include a fair trade between skill - output. Some noskill scorch*X, fireball that suffe about -> . <--- from movement contra afflictioncycle is just wrong

Now to the best part "warlocks not designed for arena"? Uh....................... ........
Warlocks been in the game from start so that is bullshit. What you mix up is that BLZ failed to forsee BURST-WOTLK + "dotters will do fine". Affliction can be part of arena as much as any other spec or class if they get a working cc and more survivability. A working cc is needed cos trying to save your healer buddy in 2v2 is epicfail vs melee and I really dont wanne see warlocks be able to play 3v3, 5v5 and not 2v2 cos of immunity from all meleeclasses.
The survivability is no need to efven comment, should be clear to anyone by now.

Edit: PLaying a hunter and being upset that warlocks whine about melee is sad. Hunters toolbox might not be the best in game (cos thats always how hunters are, OMG ROUGE RAPE ME, GIVE ME 20% MORE DODGE" but considering the ammount of changes BLZ implemented to hunters just to be able to survive melee better is a joke compared to locks.
We got nerfed slow, "to the ground baby" nerf to fear. and you got? hmmmm hmmmm you actually didnt get 2 nerfs but lots of buffs.

[TerryBogard]

Myself im one of the lucky few that can handle it but if I see other warlocks, 90% of them will struggle like hell and still be crap :-X

Bakis I am not attacking you or anything but comments like these are to the detriment of the Warlock community. For all I know you may be the best Warlock in the history of Warlocks but you really shouldnt talk yourself up and others down at the same time. Warlocks have a lot of problems. Most of which are in the game but others come from our players (when they post comments like these). Your message gets lost in your cockiness.

Janaa obviously doesnt have a clue about in game mechanics. I stopped responding to her/him because it wont ever go anywhere. Some people have a myopic view of how things are and will never listen to anything that contradicts their beliefs.

Lets move away from people like these, "locks are complicated but im better than everyone else" statements, "locks are fine L2P" morons, and get to the core of the issues and discuss reasonable solutions. Unless the Warlock community as a whole supports eachother and gets behind the issues, we will never see a solution. Its obvious that Blizzard will take their sweet time "fixing" our situation without some help from us. So lets light a fire under their asses together.

[zuxia]

Indeed. However, I was not replying to rational argument, I was replying to irrational "we want to beat you with zero skill". If my comments do not apply to you, you need not take offense to them.
I get 15 minutes for lunch. I'll read the five threads listed on the front page, but that's all I've got time for. At home, I CONTRIBUTE to the official forums. Why I picked this one to reply to is simply because it was another irrational QQ, of exactly the type you're saying is trolling. Every post in this thread by the OP is full of fail. He might be coming from a legitimate angle, but almost everything he says is irrelevant whinge.
Says affliction warlocks..
Which classes do one-button macros work for in 3.x?
Ah now I understand, you took what I said out of context and replaced it with your own inference. Of course they should DPS well. In PVE content they should DPS just as highly as any other DPS class. The argument I was making is that they should not DPS as highly in PVP as they do in PVE. I can't think of a single other class that does, yet warlocks (in the majority of QQ posts) are complaining because they can't DPS as high as PVE, therefore their PVP is broken because of PVE balances. If my hunter was PVPing with the 4000+ dps it's doing in raids, any arena would be over in 8 seconds.

If warlocks DPSd the same in both PVE and PVP, it means one of two things - 1) they're gimped in PVE. 2) They're OP in PVP.
Wait what? Pallys can remove the fear once every 5 minutes. Hunters can remove it once every minute for 4 seconds (and only if their pet isn't feared as well..). I'm not going to comment specifically on other classes, but a once-every-5 minutes and a situational pet remove vs a spammed fear doesn't exactly mean the ability is useless anymore.
So its been brought in line with traps, repentance, etc? Balance is a good thing, yes?
Holy pally purely for raiding, hunter for a bit of both. Why would you love to hear? You thought I played OP arena classes? Guess again. It's going to be another great "bottom of the barrel" season for hunters!

Couple of things here, I do not actively play an afflic lock, however after playing multiple toons/research/ and discussions with other classes, yes afflic locks have a difficult rotation. I actively play and level 80 lock.

As in reference to fear, oops only takes once to break fear for burst death plus you forget the nice trinket to make you immune/break fear so actually at least 2 times to break fear per class. Hunters silence shot/concussion shot..they shoot faster than most fears.

[Bakis]

Yea I am good, but I still think the cycle should get max 1 major change making it more easy so more locks can enjoy it. What I dont want (but this is ego, I know) is that they make it too easy.

Being a hardcore raider and been forced to play the blindmonkeyspec á la mage/hunter TBC destrolock, Im soooo glad that we finally got a challange in a spec.

Im refering to me as thats a player i obviously know to 100% and im refering to other locks (affelocks) that i had the chanse to raid with and all I can say is that they struggle and thats why I yet again say that its nice if BLZ make some small change so ppl dont have to play splitscreen, 1 screen for dottimers and 1 for the rest of wow ;D'

If I had 100points of problems with warlocks and had to distribute them between PvE and PvP I would set 90 of those 100 as PvP.
If a player find it too hard (after the upcomming cyclefix whenever that is) they should simply play a hybrid, like demo/dotter.

For PvE there are basicly these specs: full affe, affe/demo hybrid, full destro, demo/ruin hybrid. full demo (props to those who pick this raidbuffingspec btw). If locks where forced to play monkeyspec all TBC as soon as they had T4+ I would be more than glad if they actually let us have one demanding spec out of five PvE specs and not nerfing it cos 30000 unskilled warlocks read theorycraft and noticed full affliction is most damage. Then decide to play it just to find out its too hard for them and they go yell for changes potentionally ruining the only demanding spec.

Changing too much in full affliction and we are back to a noskill mageclone that just spam 2-3 different nukes and lifetap.

For all I care, warlocks doesnt need much fixing, except a few more or less minor things here and there in PvE.
It's PvP that fucked up so bad and need 90% of all fixing, I say this and im still a PvEplayer :-*

[Drearcerberus]

I think my favorite part about all these PvP problems we're having is the fact that GC earlier in beta that warlocks would be different in WotLK, in the fact that we were no longer supposed to tank melee (which to be honest we weren't able to do nearly as well toward the end of s3 and s4). I figured that we'd be getting some escape mechanics, etc. and so we'd be able to get away from melee. This obviously didn't happen. We lost our high stamina, our pets still scaled poorly, everyone and their mother can now break fear, and we got nothing new to compensate for this. So now we're supposed be a cloth class with none of our previous tanking ability. Add in the fact that burst damage is high atm and...

Now that s5 has begun and warlocks are getting smoked. GC now comes back and says the problem is that we're supposed to be more like hunters than mages and to fix this instead of giving us escape mechanisms and additional CC they're going to improve our mitigation (which basically was what stamina was for us before WotLK).

I just find it rather amusing that they've done this giant reversal where we supposed to be changing to a more escape oriented class and now we're going back to be a class that's going to have to mitigate/tank damage again. So I guess this does sort of prove the OPs point that Bliz has no clue what they want to do with wls.

[Borak]

Err - by who's definition is a paladin solely a melee class? All our heals are ranged. Every one of our special abilities has a range except crusader strike and divine storm. (Judgements and Holy Shock have 40/20 yard ranges). That's two out of 26 active abilties. That's less than 10% melee abilities as ret. Even fewer as holy (no crusader strike or divine storm - EVERY spell is ranged, of course whacking the target helps enchance those abilities). The only truly melee pally class is tanks..

Think before you post. Kkthxscrub.

Please imagine a WL doning additional 2-4 k Meele damage with his dagger or sword.
Would you still think it´s ok for a class doning very high meele and spell damage?
Maybe you should use your own advise an think by your self before you post, moron!

[Pezhman]

i was under the impression that the current no. 1 2v2 arena team has a hunter in it... yet in the list i saw i didn't see a single lock.......

That hunter has no clue really, hunters in my server are very good in PVP atm.

[Cantii]

lol this thread is providing much entertainment. Keep QQing, Warlocks. Feel the burn, OOOH YEAH!

(btw, welcome to the last 3 years of being a Shaman, except you only get to experience it for a few months.)

[Bakis]

lol this thread is providing much entertainment. Keep QQing, Warlocks. Feel the burn, OOOH YEAH!

(btw, welcome to the last 3 years of being a Shaman, except you only get to experience it for a few months.)

Another retard that basicly says "my class X had to be shit so that automaticly make it right to break another class"

[Offsprngr]

Says affliction warlocks..

If you don't even know that you might as well stop discussing right away.

[Offsprngr]

also i have yet to see a more difficult rotation than the current affliction rotation.

oh and we have 3 instant cast dots. 1 of which cant be used with CoE,CoEx,CoT ect...

The problem is with them being instant cast is that somehow some people think we are able to spam these during movement.
But the big fucking flaw in the logic is, they do damage OVER TIME so if I refresh them before they've ran out I actually do less damage, not to mention they will be missing 30% damage from haunt and shadow embrace.

Would you run around and refresh your viper sting every 3 seconds?

[Offsprngr]

lol this thread is providing much entertainment. Keep QQing, Warlocks. Feel the burn, OOOH YEAH!

(btw, welcome to the last 3 years of being a Shaman, except you only get to experience it for a few months.)

Pre-BC didn't have affli warlocks cause of debuff limit.
TBC had karazhan, real raiding after that was all shadow mages.
WotLK has affliction that still doesn't scale as it should.

And now you're coming over here to insult me?
I guess affli with 5 years beats your 3 years, if only it would make me happy that we still are broken.

Every guild in TBC needed shamans, if you were specced affliction you were told to fuck off, like I am telling you now.