Speccing Ret

[Serenade]

So when you stack haste, you benefit that <50% of your DPS. Now as that portion of your DPS goes up, yeah the percentage of damage compared to all your damage done goes up. But it's not like your other attacks have gone down in damage, it's just that even at the same damage output, the percentage of overall damage they contribute towards has decreased.

thats just it.
if im hitting faster and the seal procs are more frequent because of that and my other spells are doing the same or SLIGHTLY less dmg (since i balanced my gear well and there wasnt a big sacrifice from me trading some stats for haste) that is an overall DPS increase.
theres a line drawn somewhere in the amount of DPS increased by THIS MUCH more AP or THIS MUCH more crit and w/e amount of Haste. if the haste increase benefits your white hits and their seal procs more than the extra AP or crit from the other piece of gear, bring it on.

[Fastblack]

Hitting faster yes, hitting harder no.
Strength increases every single one of your abilities. Haste only white swings, and some seal of blood procs. Seal of blood procs off of white swings, ds, cs, and judgments.

[Serenade]

Hitting faster yes, hitting harder no.
Strength increases every single one of your abilities. Haste only white swings, and some seal of blood procs. Seal of blood procs off of white swings, ds, cs, and judgments.

thats what i'm trying to say. STR increases the damage done by these abilities but at what level/rating does the FREQUENCY of hits overwrite that damage?

if i hit you for 500 3 times in 12 seconds bc my weap speed is 3.3 = 1500
if i hit you for 450 4 times in 12 seconds bc my weap speed 3.0 = 1800

i'm hitting you for less each time but i'm hitting u faster

[eclipse212]

haste never pulls past str in effectiveness. the pretty dedicated crowd that is maintaining the rawr ret module, several spreadsheets and pawn values, pointed this out back in 3.0. it´s not because they love str that they came to this conclusion - it´s because they love ret that made them go through the efforts (and still keep going). they´d promote haste if it was superior.

if haste over str is your personally preferred playstyle, so be it. but it´s less dps than hitting like a truck, but slow.

[Fastblack]

haste will never pull ahead of str unless they buff it for melee. For casters its a much more valuable stat. I would replace all my haste rating with str or crit if i could.

Haste gives something like 2-3 dps per 10.
Str gives between 8-12 dps per 10.
Depending on buffs

[Serenade]

haste will never pull ahead of str unless they buff it for melee. For casters its a much more valuable stat. I would replace all my haste rating with str or crit if i could.

Haste gives something like 2-3 dps per 10.
Str gives between 8-12 dps per 10.
Depending on buffs

you are not taking into calculation the seal proc dps.
haste makes seal of blood proc more often

[Serenade]

they´d promote haste if it was superior.

its all over the tier gear. so if u plan on getting other gear and ignoring ur tier set, i'll wave as i pass u on the dps charts bc my +haste SoB procs outshine your reg speed

[Mysmere]

its all over the tier gear. so if u plan on getting other gear and ignoring ur tier set, i'll wave as i pass u on the dps charts bc my +haste SoB procs outshine your reg speed

no.
haste is above armor pen, and thats about it.

stop being stubborn.

[Fastblack]

If all we did was white hits with sob, haste may be better, but thats not the case. STR is and will probably always be better.
50% of your sob procs are from white hits and 50% are from instants. With more haste that might shift to 40% and 60%, but your instants will lose damage.

[Serenade]

i agree that STR is the stat above all else.

i'm defending haste as a stat you would want after achieving hit cap and when you are satisfied with your crit rating.

I've found that when i'm buffed to around 35% i crit just about every hit/every other hit. i see so many crits flyin around the screen it makes me smile. i'm comfortable with like 31% unbuffed crit. my personal raid grp has a feral druid anyway.

ALWAYS get STR above everything. If i didnt believe this i'd have crit/haste gems. STR is the utmost important. for me, having gear that gets me to hit cap and raid buffs get me to 35% crit, i'ma stack haste where i can

[eclipse212]

crit comes extremely easy tho. there is no need to gem for it whatsoever. check my armory: every item, every gem, every enchant (except icewalker - didn´t get to re-enchant yet after I got black ice and shot over the hit cap) aims for weapon damage over hit or crit - I even picked the metagem with the "easier" requirement (+21agi/3%) over the more useful one (+21crit/3%) in favor of another 16str gem.

yet I´m sitting at 768 crit rating already, which together with the high agility from black ice adds up to 34.81% unbuffed, or about 46% fully raidbuffed (and 96% at loatheb pewpew) without putting any effort into it.

[jossi_boy]

Helm - Spiked Titansteel Helm - easily purchased off the AH or even cheaper buy mats and have it made

True

Neck - Heroic UP has an awesome blue neck, or spend 25 badges and get the badge neck

True aswell:P

Shoulder - Oracle rep has great blue shoulders, or craft/purshase the Savage Saronite (im using savage saronite personally)

You can also get Sons of Hodir shoulder, which are even better.

Back - Cloak of Bloodied Waters, BOE found in AH

Drops a really good retri back from Gundrak Trash.

Chest - Heroic old king has a GREAT chest with sockets. Also good piece quest reward in Storm Peaks for killing Loken in Normal Hall of Lights. Breastplate of Jagged Stone. I just upgraded from that to my Tier piece (80 badges)

Sure^^

Bracer - Heroic Hall of Stone has some Haste bracers. Haste is good for Seal of Blood

Better get the ones from first boss in Azjol Nerub, but even better, the BS crafted ones for lvl 78.

Gloves - tier gloves are pretty easy to get, 10 man Sarth. If u cant get those easily, get the crafted Savage Saronite until you can get the tier gloves or even the pvp gloves (10/25 man Vault). do your 10/25 man vault and sarth at every opportunity bc they're easy. its like free gear.

You can also get some pretty good ones from Loken or HC VH.

Belt - H Nexus, easy to get groups for and the best belt till 25 man naxx. MAKE SURE YOU GET A BELT BUCKLE!

Very true :P

Legs - Heroic UK last boss, i have these and they're great. get those if u can, if u get exalted wyrmrest before getting those the Bloody Reprisal legplates arent bad. i use them for pvp.

The one from UP are very good due to the high hit.

Feet - Exalted Ebon Blade is your target for the Death Inured Sabatons. Till u get those pick up the epic crafted Spike Titansteel boots or the blue ones from H UP.

The ones from Ebon blade are better than Titansteel boots with 2x 16str sockets.

trinket - 40 badges, Mirror of Truth and if u can get the Meteorite Whetstone from H UP. if u cant, get any trinket you can that has crit or haste and some useful on equip or on use item. i'm currently using a passive haste trinket with an on use AP gain. Fezzil's Pocketwatch or something, till i get better.

Get the badge trinket yea, there is a good trinket from HC DTK aswell.

Rings - heroic nexus has a great ring, blue but best till u get rings out of naxx or a Kirin tor band from the next patch. i also have the ring from heroic gundrak.

Yap

and shoulders. GEM FOR STRENGTH except where you need blue gems for your 21 crit +3% crit dmg Meta Gem. i have 16 str everywhere except my 2&#160; 8 crit 12 stam gems.

Yap, alot of str

Weapon - CRAFTED TITANSTEEL! your best bet till naxx weapons. if u cant afford that, get Sword of Justice from heroic Hall of Stone.

True story!

Libram - badge Libram good for seal of command.
I use the Divine Storm libram u get from Venture Co quests in grizzly hills i think?
the good one for Blood pallies is 25 man naxx

This is a hard one, only good one I have seen is from noth in naxx 25 or so.

GL

[ClinkSvenZuljin]

I basically have the same setup as everyone else here but I have a question about the ret spec would it be worth while for PvE to have Eye for and Eye talented due to we really don't reach the defense cap as wearing dps gear which means we get critted more often than a tank and healers for DPS wise with mobs who AOE or does that only apply to being hit by a normal attacks hit? Figured I would ask.