HT>Nourish

[Klaskent]

Healingtouch with glyph + specc outheals nourish bigtimes. nuff said (talking raidhealing, not MT healing )

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...ing&n=Klaskent
So far i have seen im pritty much the only restodruid with "healingtouch specc" as you can see in my gear im going full out on crit and spirit and . . i dont got any problem in raids at all.
Unbuffed my healingtouch with 1 sec cast (0.5 sec with proc) heals for 4.7-5k and critts about 7-8k

In raids i critt upp to 11k, and the main thing i use HT over Nourish for is that you need hots on your targets before you can heal them allmost as good as you can with healingtouch. And lets not forget about the castingtime, with full specc you can get about 0.4 sec cast (tho that dont got to well with global cooldown) but it still gives a hell lotta more HPS then nourish

But. Now with the WG buff blizz is talking about i might consider going for Nourish (only might consider, seeing i think Nourish is a heal for moonkins / feraldruids for arena acording to me)

[0xdeadc0de]

I really don't understand the idea behind speccing a druid for HT healing. Yes it works, but it's the same as other healers.
The general idea behind restoration druids is working with HoTs, stacking them, watching them, etc.

The same things goes to warlocks that spec around SB, that play mostly as mages, instead of doing something different with affliction.

Of course that's my opinion and I don't say that HT is not powerful enough to be used for healing, just don't get the idea to not use the class' unique abilities and play style.

[Klaskent]

I really don't understand the idea behind speccing a druid for HT healing. Yes it works, but it's the same as other healers.
The general idea behind restoration druids is working with HoTs, stacking them, watching them, etc.

The same things goes to warlocks that spec around SB, that play mostly as mages, instead of doing something different with affliction.

Of course that's my opinion and I don't say that HT is not powerful enough to be used for healing, just don't get the idea to not use the class' unique abilities and play style.

Im sorry i couldnt link a WWS from a whole raid, but in total it is about 15-35% of my healing is Healingtouch, depending on what we raid, and what im assigned to. But in all ways (exept for the manacost that is about 100 more) it is so much better then Nourish

[aejt]

May I ask how much your HT costs, and how much your Nourish costs?

I only played druid in TBC (cleared all raidcontent), and HT was insanely inefficient, and the glyph makes it even more inefficient, doesn't it?

[Klaskent]

May I ask how much your HT costs, and how much your Nourish costs?

I only played druid in TBC (cleared all raidcontent), and HT was insanely inefficient, and the glyph makes it even more inefficient, doesn't it?

If i remember correctly my HT is about 620 and Nourish is 530 or something like that (my GC is out so i cant check :<)

[nevermore]

Having Nourish as your "Flash Heal" and Healing Touch as your "Greater Heal" is far better than having two "Flash Heals" when there's no real difference between them.

Healing Touch with Naturalist is a great spell but a lot of people seem to diss it. Learn to use all your abilities to be a perfectly versatile healer, is all I have to say.

[Klaskent]

Having Nourish as your "Flash Heal" and Healing Touch as your "Greater Heal" is far better than having two "Flash Heals" when there's no real difference between them.

Healing Touch with Naturalist is a great spell but a lot of people seem to diss it. Learn to use all your abilities to be a perfectly versatile healer, is all I have to say.

Thats one way to look at it, but if i want a "Greater Heal" i could simply throw away 1 regrowthcritt and directly after that go swiftmend (thats about 15-18k healing)
Or, you could see druids "Greater Heal" as tranq?

[renzo797]

I have been specc'ed into healing touch since I hit 80, and I absolutely love it. The fact that nourish is a 1.5 second cast and healing touch is 1 second (.94 with 220~ haste) really makes the difference to me. There have been many many times while I was running heroics or raiding when I saved someone and thought about how that would have been nearly impossible with nourish or regrowth (thinking KT frost blast and such). Plus, it's amazing for trash healing and on bosses when you can get your casts off seemingly instantly if you have good reflexes. I don't spam it, I use all of the hots at my disposal with, like the OP said, only 15-25% of my healing coming from healing touch. I've raided with 5 other resto druids in 25 man Naxx, and as far as effective healing goes, this spec always seems to win when played right by a large margin. If you don't have mana issues, I think it's the way to go for sure. The loss of a "big heal" doesn't bother me. The only time it's useful is with nature's swiftness.

Edit: I don't gear for crit either.

[aejt]

I have been specc'ed into healing touch since I hit 80, and I absolutely love it. The fact that nourish is a 1.5 second cast and healing touch 1 second (.94 with 220~ haste) really makes the difference to me. There have been many many times while I was running heroics or raiding when I saved someone and thought about how that would have been nearly impossible with nourish or regrowth (thinking KT frost blast and such). Plus, it's amazing for trash healing and on bosses when you can get your casts off seemingly instantly if you have good reflexes. I don't spam it, I use all of the hots at my disposal with, like the OP said, only 15-25% of my healing coming from healing touch. I've raided with 5 other resto druids in 25 man Naxx, and as far as effective healing goes, this spec always seems to win when played right by a large margin. If you don't have mana issues, I think it's the way to go for sure. The loss of a "big heal" doesn't bother me. The only time it's useful is with nature's swiftness.

Yeah, I from what I've understood, it seems to have great hp/s, but may not be worth in later content cause of mana inefficiency (since Moonglow will affect Nourish too in 3.0.8 ).
Naxx is pretty much healable with green gear, I hope ulduar will change it so that mana WILL be a problem.

[Chastise]

Maybe with the CD to wild growth coming out i might rethink this next statement - but i really think its silly to glyph healing touch - from the numbers youve posted its almost identical to nourish - and nourish def pulls ahead number wise with 4 pc set bonus...

as one person said, you have to have hots on someone... which they see as a setback i suppose...

Granted the fact that nourish is being affected by WG in the next patch i think will really help it as a raid healing tool...

Personally i have yet to run into a situation where i wished i had a faster heal than nourish - esp because i have pts in balance for haste and .5 sec off after a crit - so crit regrowth - and i have 12 or so seconds to pop out a super fast nourish...i would go out on a limb and say that between the spikes in damage that .5 sec buff is usually on me and therefore when i do need to spot heal - i usually have a super fast heal anyway - i have an extra glyph slot for something else - and i still have the trusty oh $hit button...

i dunno thats my opinion - here is my armory - and i have cleared all raid content thus far...either heroic or non heroic or both...
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...gwynn&n=gatoso ( i may be tank specced when you look at this - it varies on the needs of the day...)

[Klaskent]

Maybe with the CD to wild growth coming out i might rethink this next statement - but i really think its silly to glyph healing touch - from the numbers youve posted its almost identical to nourish - and nourish def pulls ahead number wise with 4 pc set bonus...

as one person said, you have to have hots on someone... which they see as a setback i suppose...

Granted the fact that nourish is being affected by WG in the next patch i think will really help it as a raid healing tool...

Personally i have yet to run into a situation where i wished i had a faster heal than nourish - esp because i have pts in balance for haste and .5 sec off after a crit - so crit regrowth - and i have 12 or so seconds to pop out a super fast nourish...i would go out on a limb and say that between the spikes in damage that .5 sec buff is usually on me and therefore when i do need to spot heal - i usually have a super fast heal anyway - i have an extra glyph slot for something else - and i still have the trusty oh $hit button...

i dunno thats my opinion - here is my armory - and i have cleared all raid content thus far...either heroic or non heroic or both...
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...gwynn&n=gatoso ( i may be tank specced when you look at this - it varies on the needs of the day...)

Yes, blizz seems to buff Nourish alot, expecialy with WG. So, my future as a healingtouch druid is a little unsure, but i do hope that blizz encourages diffrent speccs for the same purpose so all druids wont be identical (like in tbc, that was just boring)

But i still loooove high critt% as druid with natures grace, and the fact that you got a 0.5 sec spell that can critt upp to 12k is just wonderful

[Chastise]

there will always be druid who approach healing differently - and not just between healing touch (glyphed) and the spec that i use - unfortunately im tank specced atm i realized ...

i go all the way to the Haste talent in the balance tree - i always have 3 points i dont know where to put in the healing tree tho - so they usually switch between Living Seed(i know - can suck for raiding) Natural perfection and sometimes more recently empowered touch to make the oh shit button a little stronger...either way i love my spec and using the .5 cast reduction on a nourish when the tank is getting crushed is very nice - or to help your spot heals go a little faster

i love that not all druids heal the same way - i hope the WG cooldown helps people become better healers - i see way too many people spamming it...who wouldnt tho - its too good..lol

[Inebrius]

What do you have with your Nature's Swiftness now? oO Regrowth?

[Klaskent]

What do you have with your Nature's Swiftness now? oO Regrowth?

I personaly bearly use it anymore, but yes, seeing HT still heals the most i use it. But i benefit more from it in PvP ^^ instant root etc.
And you dont use Regrowth for the instant heal, its the tic that is imba :>

[silvytreehug]

Okay, i guess first off, i need to say anyone can play any way they damn well please. More power to them.

Also, this is all based on PvE content, arena style is up for debate.

Having said that, making Healing Touch a main spell is flat out retarded. If you wanted to heal by spamming one button over and over again, you should reroll pally.

In order to make HT viable, you need to have a very specialized spec, as well as the glyph. This means you are by default nerfing other skills. The nature of a druid healer is to spread out and master the timing for six skills: Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Regrowth, Swiftmend, Wild Growth, and Nourish. Wanna know how to beat CoH priests after teh patch? Spread out and balance these skills. They account for about 98% of my total heals.

After those 6 central skills, you have 3 emergency skills: Nature's Swiftness, Tranquility, and Healing Touch. These are so specialized that you often go entire raids only using nature's swiftness.

The overlooked aspect of HT/flash heal equivalents is that you have to stand still to cast them. Stacking hots while moving is KEY. If you're gonna mimic a pally healer, you're gonna get pwned when you have to move. On Malygos, do you just stop healing during the Vortex? What about phase two when youre moving from bubble to bubble?

Basically I think the HT glyph, Naturalist,and Empowered Touch are all wastes of talent points/glyph slots. Lifebloom is your backbone, everything else revolves around it. The only reason anyone should need to cast Healing Touch is if they don't have enough hots on a target. Granted this occurs, but I seriously cant immagine a situation where Regrowth wouldnt be a much better option.

Also, whenever someone says their healing touch spec is beating other druids in the raid, i say maybe you all need to go back to school.

[Bithindel]

Couple things

1) If you are using healing touch with the glyph as raid healing, even with the haste from all of your gear, you shouldn't be raid healing, to me it sounds like you are MT healing with that specc which Resto Druids shouldn't do. (Who doesn't know that... honestly)


2) Why have the HT Glyph when you could be using these glyphs which technically are better for raid healing.
-Glyph of Swiftmend - Your Swiftmend no longer eats the Rejuv, or Regrowth, on your target so it'll keep ticking. So really it'll be good if your tank is low on health put a Rejuv on him/her, use your Swiftmend and go back to raid healing.

-Glyph of Rejuvination - When your target is below 50%, your Rejuvination will tick them for an additional 50% of health.

-Glyph of Innervate - I use this glyph for when I spam Nourish on everyone since it'll increase my total % of spirit into MP5 by 20% (420% total) along with your base MP5 while casting which should be relatively high.



3) The 4 set bonus of your T7/T7.5 increases the % bonus healing of your Nourish spell by an additional 5% PER HoT on your target so lets do the math here.

Basic Nourish bonus healing is 20% for only 1 HoT on the target, so add the 3 HoTs (Rejuv, Regrowth, and Lifebloom) and that will increase its effect by 35%, and with the upcoming changes, Wild Growth will effect the bonus healing so it'll put your nourish at a 40% bonus healing.


So Overall: Nourish > HT with HT glyph

[Klaskent]

Okay, i guess first off, i need to say anyone can play any way they damn well please. More power to them.

Also, this is all based on PvE content, arena style is up for debate.

Having said that, making Healing Touch a main spell is flat out retarded. If you wanted to heal by spamming one button over and over again, you should reroll pally.

In order to make HT viable, you need to have a very specialized spec, as well as the glyph. This means you are by default nerfing other skills. The nature of a druid healer is to spread out and master the timing for six skills: Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Regrowth, Swiftmend, Wild Growth, and Nourish. Wanna know how to beat CoH priests after teh patch? Spread out and balance these skills. They account for about 98% of my total heals.

After those 6 central skills, you have 3 emergency skills: Nature's Swiftness, Tranquility, and Healing Touch. These are so specialized that you often go entire raids only using nature's swiftness.

The overlooked aspect of HT/flash heal equivalents is that you have to stand still to cast them. Stacking hots while moving is KEY. If you're gonna mimic a pally healer, you're gonna get pwned when you have to move. On Malygos, do you just stop healing during the Vortex? What about phase two when youre moving from bubble to bubble?

Basically I think the HT glyph, Naturalist,and Empowered Touch are all wastes of talent points/glyph slots. Lifebloom is your backbone, everything else revolves around it. The only reason anyone should need to cast Healing Touch is if they don't have enough hots on a target. Granted this occurs, but I seriously cant immagine a situation where Regrowth wouldnt be a much better option.

Also, whenever someone says their healing touch spec is beating other druids in the raid, i say maybe you all need to go back to school.

I dont know how you play healer, but if you find it good to move around while fighting against Patchwerk, thats fine with me. But seeing i have cleared all WotlK content and got some nice achivements on the way, i would say you can stand still and cast heals. And one more thing. . . If you say Nourish is one of your 6 key spells you use so often, what gives you time to cast a 1.5 sec cast spell, and you dont got time to cast a 0.5 sec healigtouch? that is just pure BS and you know it.

And not to be mean, but stacking lifebloom on raidmembers is just . . fail, x3 lifebloom tics for max 1.2k and they cost about 400 mana each which makes you oom. if you wanna HoT the raid, go for rejuv & WG, everything else is a waste of mana (regrowth can be usefull sometimes).

And if you didnt read the originalpost i said that HT is about 15-35% of my total healing done, so i am not trying to mimic a paladin in any way. And the only thing i loose with my specc is 50% critt with Regrowth (and druids are made to hot, so it dont matter if it critt or not acoring to you ? )

[Klaskent]

Couple things

1) If you are using healing touch with the glyph as raid healing, even with the haste from all of your gear, you shouldn't be raid healing, to me it sounds like you are MT healing with that specc which Resto Druids shouldn't do. (Who doesn't know that... honestly)


2) Why have the HT Glyph when you could be using these glyphs which technically are better for raid healing.
-Glyph of Swiftmend - Your Swiftmend no longer eats the Rejuv, or Regrowth, on your target so it'll keep ticking. So really it'll be good if your tank is low on health put a Rejuv on him/her, use your Swiftmend and go back to raid healing.

-Glyph of Rejuvination - When your target is below 50%, your Rejuvination will tick them for an additional 50% of health.

-Glyph of Innervate - I use this glyph for when I spam Nourish on everyone since it'll increase my total % of spirit into MP5 by 20% (420% total) along with your base MP5 while casting which should be relatively high.



3) The 4 set bonus of your T7/T7.5 increases the % bonus healing of your Nourish spell by an additional 5% PER HoT on your target so lets do the math here.

Basic Nourish bonus healing is 20% for only 1 HoT on the target, so add the 3 HoTs (Rejuv, Regrowth, and Lifebloom) and that will increase its effect by 35%, and with the upcoming changes, Wild Growth will effect the bonus healing so it'll put your nourish at a 40% bonus healing.


So Overall: Nourish > HT with HT glyph

If you think Nourish is good for raidhealing, then i suggest you try stacking upp all your hots on 1 target, THEN throwing away 1 nourish, and lets see how much mana you got after 1 minute.

I do know that Nourish heals more then HT with t7 setbonus, and will heal even more with WG buff, but the fact remains that you need HoT's upp on your target to be able to heal as much /a little more then Healingtouch.
So what you are saying is
-you will need an insane amout of mp5 to keep the healing up (since you need x4hots on your targets before you can throw a Nourish)
-if you dont got that insane amount of mp5 you should keep your hots upp on 1-2 tanks and only heal them? but wait . . i think somone said that druids shouldnt be MT healing?

And I am using Lifebloom, Swiftmend & HT glyph

[Nirual]

If you think Nourish is good for raidhealing, then i suggest you try stacking upp all your hots on 1 target, THEN throwing away 1 nourish, and lets see how much mana you got after 1 minute.

I do know that Nourish heals more then HT with t7 setbonus, and will heal even more with WG buff, but the fact remains that you need HoT's upp on your target to be able to heal as much /a little more then Healingtouch.
So what you are saying is
-you will need an insane amout of mp5 to keep the healing up (since you need x4hots on your targets before you can throw a Nourish)
-if you dont got that insane amount of mp5 you should keep your hots upp on 1-2 tanks and only heal them? but wait . . i think somone said that druids shouldnt be MT healing?

And I am using Lifebloom, Swiftmend & HT glyph

I think you are forgetting something... the hots heal the target too. Essentially, you don't even need to use Nourish that often, it's just to cover spikes that the hots can't cover in time. Unless you're healing on something like Patchwerk, of course. In that situation speccing entirely around a glyphed HT is probably better. But with paladins and priests spamming their flash heals there is really no need for a druid to follow that tactic in general. If your guild lacks them for some reason, sure, go ahead and spec for a priest-style healing.

[rhennigan]

The math has been done. Glyphed HT is better than Nourish in almost every possible scenario.

http://www.resto4life.com/2008/12/15...ling-in-wrath/