Haunt/ruin spec, when does crit override immo/SL?

[Sanitypurged]

i'm not 100% sure it will, but does anyone know of a damage calculator or simulator that will tell when it'd be more worth casting another shadow bolt instead of an immolate or sl?

obviously i keep UA and Corruption in the rotation because of pandemic.
just curious to know if anyone has done the math and knows if it'd ever be worth it.

[Datix]

Not exactly sure what you're asking here, but if you're playing Affliction, you should always make keeping all DoTs up your priority over fillers IMO. I never cast a shadow bolt over refreshing any DoT.

[Sanitypurged]

i guess my post was somewhat vague, sorry, anyways, i'm not a bad lock, i do well with keeping up my dots and everything.

Let me try to put this right:
The reason we keep up all of our dots is because they deal more damage than shadow bolt, however, at a certain point in crit, shadow bolt's damage should become higher than that of siphon life, curse of agony, and immolate. the reason i dont include unstable affliction and corruption in this list is because their damage goes up with crit as well thanks to the pandemic talent.

and just to get some numbers from wowwiki in order to show what i mean, coefficients were(/are?) as follows:
CoA:120% of spellpower
corr:120%
immo:100%(dot)+20%(direct)
SL:100%
UA:120%

and shadow bolt: 85.71%

Now, i didnt take into consideration talents for this, but it's just for the point

since shadow bolt has the lowest spellpower coefficient for the list (but still higher than incin), it should only be used as a filler.

What i'm wanting to know is how much crit would it take to make shadowbolt worth more per global cooldown than immolate, CoA, and SL.

[Beaver]

I think your bringing up a valid point. I have often wondered the same thing lately. My gear is becoming quite good and sblots are criting on average around 11-13k. Now I know for a fact that crits like that are putting out more damage then SL, imo, and coa.....so when does enough crit say no more sl, imo, coa?

[Raks]

I keep immolate up until 35% because it doesnt benefit from death's embrace. I found that to be the best for dps but I do agree with earlier post in that I never cast a shadowbolt if a need to refresh a dot.

[Sanitypurged]

yeah, Drain soul below 25% is an insane dps increase, and keeping up dots currently is the only way to have good dps in general right now.

i'm trying to do the math myself, right now what i gather is most of the dots are at least 1.5 times as valuable as sbolt, so just judging by that, you might need around 51% crit(buffed) to make it so sbolt is more valuable than immolate/SL, the reason i didnt include CoA is because it's more than twice as valuable as sbolt, meaning even with 100% crit, it'd be beneficial to cast CoA over sbolt.

obviously, unless you completely stack crit, these numbers are not obtainable yet

[bolitzk]

For CoA the answer is:
Never!

I did not go into a lot of detail but keeping it simple CoA damage will be (just posting coefficients that do not benefit Shadow Bolt)

1.2 (Haunt) x 1.1 (Imp CoA) x 1.03 (SpellStone) x (1740 (base dmg) + 1.2 (dmg coef) x SpellPower)

to determin the DPS per Cast time we just divide it by 1.5

[ 1.33 x (1750 + 1.2xSP) ] / 1.5

.87 x (1750 + 1.2SP)

CoA DPS per Cast = 1552 + 1.04xSP

on Shadow Bolt

(730 (base dmg) + 0,85 (dmg coef) x SpellPoer) x (1+Crit)

Assuming the situation where you have 100% crit and once more considering 2.5s cast the DPS per Cast time

730 x 2 / 2.5 + 0.85 x SP x 2 / 2.5

SB DPS per Cast = 584 + 0.68 x SP

making CoA DPS per Cast always greater than Shadow Bolt one for a large ammount and increasing with SP

Haste can change this as GCD is capped at 1s if you get the haste to lower your shadowbolt cast close to that which it will be hard =p

(hope i didn't overlook anything, did it from the coef I could remember, currently at work!)

[dyson]

Simple answer: never.

All dots have a higher DPSC than shadowbolt, even if you have 100% crit.

Long answer:
Looking at a WWS from my last Patchwerk, here's the highlights (calculated with an average of 20% haste):

(Spell: Avg tick/full duration/dpsc)
Corruption: 1885/11310/9425
SL: 975/9750/8125
CoA: 779/9348/7790
UA: 1559/7795/6495
Immolate: 1290 (1387 hit)/7418/6181

So there you have the DPSC for all the dots for this fight, excluding pandemic. Now for the shadowbolt:
Avg hit: 4594
Avg crit: 9191
Highest crit: 10015
So with 100% crit, and calculating form the highest crit, the DPSC is still "only" 5007, lower than any of your dots.
So keep the dots up my friend, even on Loatheb!

As for the Drain Soul, my average was 11244 (4685 DPS), max was 12767 (5319 DPS), so nothing in your arsenal is more powerfull than a dot!

[ksem]

This might be slightly off topic. Is it better to drain soul or shadowbolt under 25% on the Loatheb fight?

Clearly we still want to keep all dots up as usual and intuition tells me that DS would still come out on top, but im wondering if anyone has crunched numbers to see if shadowbolting below 25% on this specific fight results in higher numbers because DS can't benefit from the extra crit chance.

[Kalreth]

This might be slightly off topic. Is it better to drain soul or shadowbolt under 25% on the Loatheb fight?

Clearly we still want to keep all dots up as usual and intuition tells me that DS would still come out on top, but im wondering if anyone has crunched numbers to see if shadowbolting below 25% on this specific fight results in higher numbers because DS can't benefit from the extra crit chance.

SB's crits about 8-10k with 2k+ spell power, and drain soul with all the dots up hits for about 10-13k. So i'd go for drain soul.