Patch 3.0.8 Notes update, Blue posts

[RWeber]

[color=white]We also try to make sure that a raid that has only say Holy paladins does not wipe repeatedly on every encounter.
...
We think the new system is a big improvement, especially compared to the way groups had to stack for Sunwell.

So Blizzard has decided to remove yet another aspect of the game: the design of raid compositions. No need to make sure your raid has a balance of different types of healing classes, just bring holy paladins!

[Bidé]

what i don't get is if they know there are less healers than dps why don't they make raids ro have less healers and not more?

[broodfusion]

....SUDDEN DEATH c'mon, like warriors aren't already well nerfed enough.

[Draco cracona]

Titanguard.... removed?!
If it doesn't make it to live after all this, i'm gonna freak.

There was a link posted earlier in the thread guys to a blue saying that they'll look into it so we can still hope for it, else it's back to old potency/mongoose It was a stupidly good enchant that basically wiped the floor with all opposition though tbh.

[greenttich]

There was a link posted earlier in the thread guys to a blue saying that they'll look into it so we can still hope for it, else it's back to old potency/mongoose It was a stupidly good enchant that basically wiped the floor with all opposition though tbh.

What opposition? :P It's like saying that subtlety on cloak wiped the floor with all other caster back enchants in TBC.

[Cho]

There is no good weapon enchant for tanks, especially Paladins ... removing or even lowering the effect down to 50 makes it just medicore ~~.

[Elektrik]

If 75 stam was never mentioned, people would be saying that 50 was amazing.

[Poysonivy]

Shame no Titanguard enchant indeed. Could have been an alternate enchant for druid who have enchanted agi in other places. Although I feel the new raids will introduce new enchanting drops in the future. I mean the 2HD +35 agi enchant is from Arcatraz, and the new wotlk is only +26 agi on weapons.

[Deleted]

That 3D mechanic seems pretty awesome

[AetherMcLoud]

[color=white]We also try to make sure that a raid that has only say Holy paladins does not wipe repeatedly on every encounter.
...
We think the new system is a big improvement, especially compared to the way groups had to stack for Sunwell.

So Blizzard has decided to remove yet another aspect of the game: the design of raid compositions. No need to make sure your raid has a balance of different types of healing classes, just bring holy paladins!

Mimimi.

The whole point of the raiding composition change in Lich King was that you can raid with people you like (aka your friends) rather than taking that 5th shaman who is a complete idiot and has less than 500 dps, but still brings Bloodlust / Heroism so you'd take him over another wellgeared, -played, and -mannered rogue.

[Cho]

If 75 stam was never mentioned, people would be saying that 50 was amazing.

It'd be still medicore. Do some math and you'll see the point ...

[RWeber]

The whole point of the raiding composition change in Lich King was that you can raid with people you like (aka your friends) rather than taking that 5th shaman who is a complete idiot and has less than 500 dps, but still brings Bloodlust / Heroism so you'd take him over another wellgeared, -played, and -mannered rogue.

Progress minded guild won't recruit the shaman because he doesn't know how to play - casual guild won't recruit the shaman because he's an idiot. Either way he's not going to be there to take your raid spot.

The whole point of all the raiding changes in WotLK is to make raiding accessible to players who can't or won't put any more than a minimal amount of effort into the game. Which in itself is perfectly understandable.

What is not understandable is just abandoning the people who like putting time, practice and intellectual effort into raiding and building raiding guilds. The hardest encounters should be designed so that they force the raid to have a good class balance, rather than just bringing all holy paladins. Optimizing raid compositions is one aspect of the game that brings enjoyment to some people - incidentally you really don't want to drive those people away from the game because they're the people who organize and run most of the successful guilds.

There should be content for people who just want to have fun with friends, and there should be content for people who want tough challenges. There are people in this game who build and run complex simulators to figure out the optimal pieces of gear to wear, and there are those who pick their gear based on how it looks. There used to be content for both groups, why can't there be in the future as well?

[AetherMcLoud]

It has been said more than once that ulduar will be harder than naxx, which was designed to be entry level and to let every player experience it.

That aside, my example with the bad shaman was an exaggeration, but still, I hoped people would get the point:

You have 1 open raid spot for tonight. There's a good rogue in your guild who would like to come. Now you just take him. In TBC you wouldn't because he didn't bring the buffs a shaman would, even if the shaman was an ass.

Also: Satharion with 3 drakes up IS tough content for people who want touch challenges. And there's additional loot there, paired with titles and achievements. And GC said there will be such stuff for almost every boss in ulduar. There's your hard mode right there.

[RWeber]

It has been said more than once that ulduar will be harder than naxx, which was designed to be entry level and to let every player experience it.

Yes it has. It was a great idea to redo Naxx as an entry level raid for people who have never raided before. Ulduar does not exist yet, whatever has been said about it might or might not be true.

You have 1 open raid spot for tonight. There's a good rogue in your guild who would like to come. Now you just take him. In TBC you wouldn't because he didn't bring the buffs a shaman would, even if the shaman was an ass.

Did you raid anything beyond Kara/ZA in TBC? Do you know how melee groups were built back then? The situation you're describing just didn't happen in reality. It didn't happen in the specific scenario of shaman/rogue, and it didn't happen in the general scenario with any other classes. And even if it did, it wouldn't justify removing the raid composition aspect from the game.

Also: Satharion with 3 drakes up IS tough content for people who want touch challenges.

So they released a paid expansion with one raid boss for people who like challenges. And even that is done through a gimmick.

[cavalier]

Wow --- I haven't been paying attention to 3.0.8 on the PTR. Have these ghoul nerfs to DK's been there awhile or is this new? 45 to 25 seconds is a bit harsh -- 30, 32 seconds, 35 seconds Come on Blizz, I don't mind the 15 min CD (i.e. PVP I still win button), but how about a little more time on the ghoulyvision?

[Amgyn]

WTB more info about 3D WoW.

[Ishir]

Did you raid anything beyond Kara/ZA in TBC? Do you know how melee groups were built back then? The situation you're describing just didn't happen in reality. It didn't happen in the specific scenario of shaman/rogue, and it didn't happen in the general scenario with any other classes. And even if it did, it wouldn't justify removing the raid composition aspect from the game.

I call shenanigans. In Sunwell you would absolutely take another lock over boomkin or ele shaman. You would absolutely take another enh shaman over a cat druid. You would absolutely take another resto shaman over a disc priest. There were classes/specs that were okay, while some were amazing and others blew goats. And it led to seeing certain specs stacked over and over again.

It was unacceptable. It wasn't about careful raid composition, it was about MANDATORY raid composition. You pretty much HAD to have X of Y class or you were going to wipe. Not enough resto shammies in your guild? Five feral druids? No warrior tank? Only one shadow priest? Yeah, you guys weren't going to be progressing...

There's a difference between optimizing your raid and having minimum requirements, and BC endraiding crossed that boundary.

So they released a paid expansion with one raid boss for people who like challenges. And even that is done through a gimmick.

That paid expansion also includes Ulduar and Icecrown (and maybe even other raids too).

[Ninthelora]

Uh? Every1 is talking about pala nerfs. Actually I dont see them? Except pvp maybe.

For PVE:

Paladins being better against undead and demons than other types of creatures is a problem, especially when the current content has a lot of undead and the next tier will most likely have far less.

Assume for the sake of argument that the damage you do in Naxx (at 3 Vengeance stacks) is the damage we want you to do all the time. You don't need to invoke "but if we are good in Naxx we will be just okay in Ulduar." That is a design problem you don't need to worry about.

Maybe soon exorcism and holy wrath will also effect humanoids/dragons/elementals/beasts. Then Retri will be much more fun (rotationwise)

[LavaDuck]

level 70 creatures in Stratholme, for example

Since when was there lvl 70 creatures in Stratholme???

edit: about this part in the priest Q&A

Very short term buffs like Battle Shout suffer the same problem

Warriors dont have to keep up BS in PvP to gain some defense. Maybe commanding shout for extra 2k hp, but warriors have lots of armor. Priests don't. Having to rebuff Innerfire every time its charges has been used up/buff faded is a thing many priests forget to do.
Removing the charges could be one way to do it.

[Dammagia]

great huge nerf to unholy DK's because of some dual wield exploits...

Dont get rid of dual wield, and make DK's run a big 2h like they should, nerf all DK's

Thanks Blizz, time to roll an FFB mage I guess...