IBF Changes: Dmg Redux/Defense=??

[Gomexus]

Anyone know how much % damage reduction IBF gains per defense as you go over 540 defense?

Wondering because if the reduction for 25defense skill is big enough I am definitely leaning toward Gargoyle Runeforge.

At face value it's a difference of 1% avoidance -vs- 2% stam.

But in actual value if 25def skill reduces damage taken during IBF by 5% from ALL sources it seems like that 5% at 12sec base would be more damage mitigated than the loss of 1% parry could avoid.

[hnd]

28 def skill = 3% reduction

400 defense 20% IBF
540 defense 35% IBF
680 defense 50% IBF
820 defense 65% IBF

[Deleted]

So... the IBF part of defense gets better as you get more of it? Not too bad.

[Gomexus]

@hnd:

Any tests, quotes, or links you know of to support those numbers or just inferring that every 140 defense skill=15% dmg reduction?

Just wondering because it may scale positively with higher defense skill judging by the reason for the change (OP in pvp) and the dev's talk about the change ("higher defense will give more damage reduction i.e. @540 def it's a 35% reduction).

The dev's didn't say how it scaled though...meaning the higher and higher you get above lvl cap (400) the bigger % contribution IBF gets.  So even though from 400-540 only adds 15%...540-600 may yield 10% more reduction even though it's a 60skill gain.

If it is 140skill=15% then the new Gargoyle Runeforge will add 2.67% (rounded to 3%) damage reduction over the course of it's 12sec (base) uptime per minute.

Hypothetical Example:

So in a 5min fight against a boss who deals 8k dmg per swing you get 5 chances to use IBF.  With Garg you would get an average of 240 less damage per hit during 12second intervals each minute of the fight.

In a 12second timeframe Bosses average 6 swings (white damage) which would give a total of 1440dmg mitigated per IBF use, over 5 uses giving 7,200 dmg mitigated total...or roughly 1 white damage swing avoided.

Over those same 5 minutes it wouldn't be too hard to find out if the 1% parry from swordshattering produces more avoided swings than the reduction from IBF...I am willing to assume out of the say 150 swings over 5mins that an extra 1% parry will help you avoid 1% of those...meaning 1.5 swings or 12,000 dmg avoided.

We're reasonably left assuming that 1% Parry>3% damage mitigation during IBF...unless you are fighting a mob that does anything other than auto attack (re: any boss in game).  In those circumstances Garg will outperform Swordshattering due to 3% mitigation to ALL incoming damage compared to 1% parry to melee only attacks.

In other words:

Gargoyle seems superior to Swordshattering due to increased mitigation during IBF being superior to 1% avoidance overall, no matter what the fight or how long the fight is. Fights with multiple damage sources, or fights with caster heavy mobs will skew even further in the favor of Gargoyle.

*Edit= italics

[clarizzana]

Was some frontpage news over at Deathknight.info a few weeks ago, they tested the effect defence had on IBF.
If I remember corrrect, 600 defence was required to restore it to its former glory.

[dotsdotsdots]

Wait...so the fuck up IBF from 50% down to 35% with 540 def? :<
That doesn't make any sense...I understand they changed it, because it was strong in PVP, but they should at least keep it on the same level, if you got 540 def = means you're not wearing pvp equip.

[AetherMcLoud]

Wait...so the fuck up IBF from 50% down to 35% with 540 def? :<
That doesn't make any sense...I understand they changed it, because it was strong in PVP, but they should at least keep it on the same level, if you got 540 def = means you're not wearing pvp equip.

It's OK. You get a shitload of armor instead, which helps making damage less spiky on our side. 50% IBF was pretty imba, seeing as Paladins and Warriors have the same 50% damage reduction on a 5 minute cooldown.

[kriS411]

Wait...so the fuck up IBF from 50% down to 35% with 540 def? :<
That doesn't make any sense...I understand they changed it, because it was strong in PVP, but they should at least keep it on the same level, if you got 540 def = means you're not wearing pvp equip.

if you tunnel vision on this change only maybe, but remember we've got 20% additional armor and 10% magic damage mitigation with this patch either...

[Kadvael]

Wait...so the fuck up IBF from 50% down to 35% with 540 def? :<
That doesn't make any sense...I understand they changed it, because it was strong in PVP, but they should at least keep it on the same level, if you got 540 def = means you're not wearing pvp equip.

welcome to a world where pvp qq'rs rules the nerfs ^^

[Sashan]

welcome to a world where pvp qq'rs rules the nerfs ^^

Welcome to the world where this wasnt the whole justification to this change. Granted it did influence slightly but the main reason was that DKs were just too squishy when without any cooldowns to pop, as such they added more passive mitigation (20% armor and 10% less magical damage taken) whilst in frost aura. To counterbalance the passive mitigation we were given they had to lower some of the reactive mitigation (IBF, Bone shield etc).

Makes sense. Also scaling with defense means that IBF scales for tanks better and idd does have less bearing on PvP - but tbh the immune to stuns was the main pvp benefit of the cooldown.

[AetherMcLoud]

Welcome to the world where this wasnt the whole justification to this change. Granted it did influence slightly but the main reason was that DKs were just too squishy when without any cooldowns to pop, as such they added more passive mitigation (20% armor and 10% less magical damage taken) whilst in frost aura. To counterbalance the passive mitigation we were given they had to lower some of the reactive mitigation (IBF, Bone shield etc).

Makes sense. Also scaling with defense means that IBF scales for tanks better and idd does have less bearing on PvP - but tbh the immune to stuns was the main pvp benefit of the cooldown.

This. Also, 35% damage reduction (with 540 defense) on a 1 minute cooldown is still amazing, compared to paladins and warriors who have 50% reduction on a 5 minute cooldown.

[Kadvael]

Welcome to the world where this wasnt the whole justification to this change. Granted it did influence slightly but the main reason was that DKs were just too squishy when without any cooldowns to pop, as such they added more passive mitigation (20% armor and 10% less magical damage taken) whilst in frost aura. To counterbalance the passive mitigation we were given they had to lower some of the reactive mitigation (IBF, Bone shield etc).

Makes sense. Also scaling with defense means that IBF scales for tanks better and idd does have less bearing on PvP - but tbh the immune to stuns was the main pvp benefit of the cooldown.

ofc it wasn't the only reason. yet if i remember right when we first heard of this change it was something like : IBF is too good for pvp (same goes for rune strike btw which was pointed as the rogue killer pvp tool). then pve tanks began yelling at the drawback effects and they change the annoucement to make it scale with def. (yet again for RS, they increased the threat so that it stays a good tanking tool).
what you describe was ture for bone shield that had to be lowered indeed since we had a significant boost of the frost presence. unholy tanks would have been wy too powerfull if no changes were made.

of course dk was and still his an amazing tank when using it cds and can be difficult to heal when having all its cds down.

anyway, all in all those changes are rather good for dk tanks since it means less spiky damages.

[SemtexJack]

Death knights got some major tanking buffs to compensate for this.

I specced something like 47/8/16 today, picked up rune of the stoneskin gargoyle and the new defense sigil, then resocketed everything for stamina.

Glyph of Vampiric Blood is a must for this.

Now, unbuffed i have 34k hp. Raidbuffed and potted that will go up to around 45k. Now with the vampiric blood change, if you pop it whenever cd is ready, then 50% of the time i'll have 52k hp.

Now consider will of the necropolis - this reduces damage taken from attacks that reduce you below 35% health by 15%. This is 16k hp without vampiric blood, 18.2k with it.

Blood dk's just became the best sartharion 3d tanks by a mile. Not only that but they have hp and armor to rival bears, aswell as very high avoidance.

[Gomexus]

@SemtexJack:

You gimped your avoidance by gemming stam...and you gimped your IBF by gemming stam...which means you gimped your avoidance and mitigation just to pick up 2k more hp...

Gemming pure def or def+stam for meta's is still the best way to go.

@hnd:

There's some talk/confusion as to how much value defense over 540 adds to IBF.&#160; Apparently someone dug up an old quote from a blue saying at 600defense it should be about a 50% reduction...so if it's 35% at 540defense you will pick up 15% by gaining 60 defense.

If the above is true that would mean SSG adds 6.25% mitigation during IBF...making it above and beyond better than the 1% avoidance from RoSS.

[hnd]

It was info pulled off EJ, I haven't done the testing myself

[Elektrik]

welcome to a world where pvp qq'rs rules the nerfs ^^

Seriously. I hated tanking in PvP and taking spiky incoming damage. Smoothing out the incoming damage in PvP is going to be really helpful.







Wait, what?

[Hazer]

@SemtexJack:

You gimped your avoidance by gemming stam...and you gimped your IBF by gemming stam...which means you gimped your avoidance and mitigation just to pick up 2k more hp...

Gemming pure def or def+stam for meta's is still the best way to go.

Stamina gemming will always win.

[Gomexus]

EJ's wrong apparently on this one.

http://deathknight.info/forum/index.php?topic=5488.0

Someone found out that at 540 it's set to 41% mitigation...then increases by .15% for every 1 defense skill over cap.

What's funny to me is all the people using SSG...and dropping every 16def gem and chant they have to pick up stam...never noticing how much avoidance they are losing...and never realizing that they are nerfing their IBF as well.

All I changed after patch was I put SSG on...picked up the tanking sigil..and swapped 2 +16 def's for 2x 8 def/12stam. I also picked up Titanweave instead of the old MgT +12def cloak enchant.

So overall on stat sheet I lost 12def rating and 1% avoidance...but I gained 24stam +2% stam overall and a sigil that increases miss/dodge/parry by .4% each so 1.2% avoidance...add in DR if it's affected and I pretty much broke even on avoidance...gained 2% stam +24extra stam...and my IBF is closer to what it was.

[Gomexus]

Stamina gemming will always win.

At low levels maybe...at extreme high levels maybe.

But re-gemming for stamina at the cost of 3% avoidance and 3.75% mitigation during IBF? If you're at the DR level for dodge/parry then gemming stam would be best...unless you have something like IBF that would keep +def attractive.

Maybe I just need better gear or maybe having 32k unbuffed is better than 30k unbuffed with 3% more avoidance...

[shoefly]

Stamina gemming will always win.

This isnt TBC anymore that attitude is pretty wrong in fact down right dumb. Unless your gearing for a certain encounter/acheivement gemming for pure stam is actually wrogn most times especially as a DK. Any competent healer will know and tell you that gemming for stam these days for 25 man stuff isnt nessecary and only makes you harder to heal