Demonology, why is this the most fun tree?

[shono99]

So I grinded on a Warlock from 70-75 as Demonology, then from 75-80 and a few entry raids as Destruction, then went Affliction. the problems I had with both Affliction and Destruction is no defense against Rogues.

Trinket the Death Coil, COS the Fear. At least as Demonology I can take the hits when people attempt to gank me, and Immolation Aura ticking for 1100+ a second and a Felguard putting out 800 DPS with 2350 spellpower is pretty nice for 1v1.

Questing was never a pain, watch your mana bar and Life tap/drain to keep full. Fel Armor helps your regen too.

2 Piece Tier 7 is great with Shadowbolt Spam as any smart demo lock will have Ruin 5/5 and Improved Shadow Bolt for Nightfall procs.

Felguard intercept is nice as an additional CC, and Metamorphosis has an additional charge to be annoying.

As for raiding, I've pulled anywhere from 2300-3k DPS, depending on the fight. Trash a little less, bosses a bit more. Felguards do a good chunk of my DPS, but Shadow Bolts with full procs critting for 10k help too. I'm sure I can push 11-12k if I had more spellpower.

[Deleted]

For me deep destro has always been and always will be the most fun and suitable spec. Felguard is ugly as heck, and I don't like the demon form that demonology offers. And managing a gazillion dots doesn't sound too interesting so affliction doesn't hit the spot either.

[shono99]

And my 10 man setup

Lock
Shadow Priest
Holy Paladin
Resto Druid
Frost/Unholy DK for Improved Icy Talons
Unholy/Blood for Ebon Plaguebringer
Frost DK offtank, around 33k buffed
Feral Druid main tank
Elemental Shaman for the caster buffs, since the Unholy/Frost DK takes care of the melee buffs.
Survival Hunter

For alternates we have

Holy Priest
Resto Druid
Holy Paladin(The Unholy DK's alt)

[valcrist]

I am not a huge fan of Demo, I would love to spec the tree but i find a lot of talents useless and pointless to the warlock class.. Personally anything passed the mid tier of talents needs to be changed, meta, Demonic emp, demonic pact ect all are really weak talents for the higher and more advanced part of the Talent tree.. I like the idea of Meta but i honestly think it needs to be more like pally bubble / BM, needs to be a last ditch effort spell... Needs to be immune to all CCs snares ect, 50% is not enough, it does not prevent stun lock and other annoying CCs that kill the lock easly, and I would actually like to see a weapon dmg increase so you can do like swipe dmg ect when DKs do immune magic bubble or rogues do COS, something that allows you to keep fighting and not get nerfed for 5 seconds and take 5-10k dmg.. I would also like to see a little more skills in the demo tree, spamming Shadow bolt and letting the Felguard hit things get old quick and especially in pvp, without those quick instants that Afflic has and Destro have, its really hard to fight sometimes when your casting speed is nerfed or locked into stuns, it is really hard to pull off a 2 sec cast, even a 1 sec cast when you your casting is nerfed to the point where it is a 5 sec cast, and that just doesnt work when Dks, rogues, mages, and pallys have just insane burst dmg..

[Warthor]

for me demonology sucks, too boring...


i'm not the kind of player that likes my pet to do the job for me

[Moss]

I am not a huge fan of Demo, I would love to spec the tree but i find a lot of talents useless and pointless to the warlock class.. Personally anything passed the mid tier of talents needs to be changed, meta, Demonic emp, demonic pact ect all are really weak talents for the higher and more advanced part of the Talent tree.. I like the idea of Meta but i honestly think it needs to be more like pally bubble / BM, needs to be a last ditch effort spell... Needs to be immune to all CCs snares ect, 50% is not enough, it does not prevent stun lock and other annoying CCs that kill the lock easly, and I would actually like to see a weapon dmg increase so you can do like swipe dmg ect when DKs do immune magic bubble or rogues do COS, something that allows you to keep fighting and not get nerfed for 5 seconds and take 5-10k dmg.. I would also like to see a little more skills in the demo tree, spamming Shadow bolt and letting the Felguard hit things get old quick and especially in pvp, without those quick instants that Afflic has and Destro have, its really hard to fight sometimes when your casting speed is nerfed or locked into stuns, it is really hard to pull off a 2 sec cast, even a 1 sec cast when you your casting is nerfed to the point where it is a 5 sec cast, and that just doesnt work when Dks, rogues, mages, and pallys have just insane burst dmg..

I don't see them handing out another paladin bubble. At least not for pvp. They've had their hands full just trying to balance the one. And giving a talent to warlocks that counters a rogue or dk counter is kind of silly. Demonic Circle removing stuns or something would be more suitable me thinks.

[Shamb]

I am not a huge fan of Demo, I would love to spec the tree but i find a lot of talents useless and pointless to the warlock class.. Personally anything passed the mid tier of talents needs to be changed, meta, Demonic emp, demonic pact ect all are really weak talents for the higher and more advanced part of the Talent tree.. I like the idea of Meta but i honestly think it needs to be more like pally bubble / BM, needs to be a last ditch effort spell... Needs to be immune to all CCs snares ect, 50% is not enough, it does not prevent stun lock and other annoying CCs that kill the lock easly, and I would actually like to see a weapon dmg increase so you can do like swipe dmg ect when DKs do immune magic bubble or rogues do COS, something that allows you to keep fighting and not get nerfed for 5 seconds and take 5-10k dmg.. I would also like to see a little more skills in the demo tree, spamming Shadow bolt and letting the Felguard hit things get old quick and especially in pvp, without those quick instants that Afflic has and Destro have, its really hard to fight sometimes when your casting speed is nerfed or locked into stuns, it is really hard to pull off a 2 sec cast, even a 1 sec cast when you your casting is nerfed to the point where it is a 5 sec cast, and that just doesnt work when Dks, rogues, mages, and pallys have just insane burst dmg..

Paragraph plz

[Bakis]

most boring tree/spec cos its a noskill spec, much like a general mage or hunter playstyle.

boooooooooring

[Steevee]

Hmmm, I have been spec'd 41/30 since i began raiding in Wrath and am seeing good numbers, in the beginning a little slow, and not pulling the numbers the affliction locks were pulling, but now i have seen my dps hit about 4700 with this spec. I now compete highly with the other affliction locks and have not seen destro in action enough to comment. 2pc T7 bonus is very nice. IMO easiest to play and still pulling equal or better numbers than the other locks, honestly I'd like to be able to have a little more situational awareness, rather than sweating and panicing while trying to maintain DOT up-time ( as with Affliction.) don't fix it if it ain't broke...imo. As for your "low" numbers....eh......



The World of Warcraft is a game of much complexity, sometimes there's fire, and you have to not stand in it.

[shono99]

most boring tree/spec cos its a noskill spec, much like a general mage or hunter playstyle.

boooooooooring

In world PVP it's my favorite spec because you have extra survivability options. Yes Metamorphosis is a double bane and leaves you a sitting duck to a lock who knows what they are doing, or a Paladin with a Turn Evil Glyph, but it lets you take on pesky Rogues so much easier. Not to mention, Immolation Aura hitting for 1100, you have the Corruption Glyph for instant Shadow Bolts, and your Felguard has a Stun CC if you know how to time it....followed by a fear. And with Metamorphosis you have a second intercept.

It still has it's counters, but it's much harder for a single person to burst down 16K health on a felguard than it used to be 8k. And seeing a 30k Voidwalker pet is funny, shame it's not defense capped! Would make an interesting offtank for Sarth+2d+

[shono99]

Hmmm, I have been spec'd 41/30 since i began raiding in Wrath and am seeing good numbers, in the beginning a little slow, and not pulling the numbers the affliction locks were pulling, but now i have seen my dps hit about 4700 with this spec. I now compete highly with the other affliction locks and have not seen destro in action enough to comment. 2pc T7 bonus is very nice. IMO easiest to play and still pulling equal or better numbers than the other locks, honestly I'd like to be able to have a little more situational awareness, rather than sweating and panicing while trying to maintain DOT up-time ( as with Affliction.) don't fix it if it ain't broke...imo. As for your "low" numbers....eh......



The World of Warcraft is a game of much complexity, sometimes there's fire, and you have to not stand in it.

I just got my 2 Piece Tier 7 last night, the extra 10% chance to crit on Shadow Bolts is awesome, especially with Improved Shadow Bolt, and Ruin.

[Steevee]

Agreed, have you tried spec'ing 41/30 or you're just full demo?











The World of Warcraft is a game of much complexity, sometimes there's fire, and you have to not stand in it"

[Bakis]

As I see it warlocks as class should always have more focus on pets. Atm its only demonology that has a fun pet sort of.
In PvE affliction pet is well, I will use the word pointless and in destro the pet is still medicore compared to the hosts dps.

I hope and think that BLZ in 3.1 will make our demons more powerfull and probably move the petimproving talents way lower in our trees.
If this means the host dps has to go down, sure I got no problem with that. Im a warlock, I want my pet to matter regardless of spec.

Hunters pets are retarded, do more damage that the hunter, locks are the other wa around. A mix would be great, like our pet did 20-25% of the damage would be super.

[zuxia]

Agreed, have you tried spec'ing 41/30 or you're just full demo?


The World of Warcraft is a game of much complexity, sometimes there's fire, and you have to not stand in it"

I have played 41/30..if you want to raid and do decent dps with less gear..its the way to go. As of new patch I switched to imp/backdraft...and saw my dps go up some from fg/ember...on 10man arch..now we do not run shammy or heroism either.

As I switched..had to adjust rotation hence why I say not alot..but then once I am used to rotation could probably pull higher numbers...but from all my research imp/backdraft will out perform fg/ember with higher gear.

Yes I have played full dest.

[shono99]

Agreed, have you tried spec'ing 41/30 or you're just full demo?

I tried it a few times for soloing, but I haven't tested it enough. I don't know if giving up Ruin and Bane would be worth the extra damage in DOTS. For PVP it would be great though since you need to get spells off, and it would have interrupt resistance against drains, as well as stronger drains.

The pros of deep demonolgy is about 230-260 spellpower from Demonic Pact, 7-10% crit to your pet, and 30-40 spellpower from Fel Synergy, and a lot easier to not have to heal your pet since 15% of the damage is healed, and Demonic Empathy scales with gear.

For PVP I think it'd be nice, for PVE not as much.









The World of Warcraft is a game of much complexity, sometimes there's fire, and you have to not stand in it"

[shono99]

As I see it warlocks as class should always have more focus on pets. Atm its only demonology that has a fun pet sort of.
In PvE affliction pet is well, I will use the word pointless and in destro the pet is still medicore compared to the hosts dps.

I hope and think that BLZ in 3.1 will make our demons more powerfull and probably move the petimproving talents way lower in our trees.
If this means the host dps has to go down, sure I got no problem with that. Im a warlock, I want my pet to matter regardless of spec.

Hunters pets are retarded, do more damage that the hunter, locks are the other wa around. A mix would be great, like our pet did 20-25% of the damage would be super.

With gear, Felguard can pull off 1k by himself. They can easily do 25% of the damage.

A lot of raid hunters flocked to Survival with the buffs to it, and the nerfs to the beast tree. If Marksmanship had more unique buffs it would be more worth it, but Trueshot Aura is garbage if you have a Blood DK or an Enhancement Shaman. A lot of the lower talents suck.

Affliction is the only tree that has a viable bottom tier talent. Yes Chaos Bolt does more damage than incinerate, but Fire and Brimstone sucks compared to Master Demonologist, however Backdraft did get a bit of a buff, as did the Conflag Glyph so it's not so clunky of a rotation, because let's face it, Conflag, Chaos Bolt, Immolate, Incinerate sucked to use a backdraft on. Now at least if you can keep Immolate up, you can spam Chaos Bolt and Conflag when they are off cooldown, and get more incinerates in.

But we'll see if Backdraft is still worth taking over both Unholy Power(20% more damage to imp), and Master Demonologist(5% crit and Fire damage to both the imp and lock)

[zuxia]

With gear, Felguard can pull off 1k by himself. They can easily do 25% of the damage.

A lot of raid hunters flocked to Survival with the buffs to it, and the nerfs to the beast tree. If Marksmanship had more unique buffs it would be more worth it, but Trueshot Aura is garbage if you have a Blood DK or an Enhancement Shaman. A lot of the lower talents suck.

Affliction is the only tree that has a viable bottom tier talent. Yes Chaos Bolt does more damage than incinerate, but Fire and Brimstone sucks compared to Master Demonologist, however Backdraft did get a bit of a buff, as did the Conflag Glyph so it's not so clunky of a rotation, because let's face it, Conflag, Chaos Bolt, Immolate, Incinerate sucked to use a backdraft on. Now at least if you can keep Immolate up, you can spam Chaos Bolt and Conflag when they are off cooldown, and get more incinerates in.

But we'll see if Backdraft is still worth taking over both Unholy Power(20% more damage to imp), and Master Demonologist(5% crit and Fire damage to both the imp and lock)

You cannot spam CB..it still has a CD

[neowarcloud]

I think that we often forget that balancing for PvP is usually low on Blizzards list of things to do...

They focus on PvE first and if there are still gigantic glaring elephant traps...they fix them later....

I also don't really care for this take the player, not the class game...while it makes activities more fun for every class it makes the gameplay too linear so that playing every class is nearly the same plus or minus a skill or 2

[Bakis]

With gear, Felguard can pull off 1k by himself. They can easily do 25% of the damage.

thats what I said, its only demonology that can enjoy a pet that actually matter. the problem tho is in return you get to play a noskill spec with 2-3 spells.

i want a pet that matters and still not become a hunternoob that press 2-3 keys.

[shono99]

You cannot spam CB..it still has a CD

you can spam Chaos Bolt and Conflag when they are off cooldown, and get more incinerates in.

Re-read it please. That's exactly what was said. I am aware Chaos Bolt has a 12 second cooldown, and Conflag 10 seconds. But at least the rotation won't be as clunky since backdrafts won't be used on stupid things, IE refreshing Immolate.