Tier 8 Video, Arena Matchmaking, Blue Posts

[MuTe]

So what you basically say that you do not like challenge at high brackets? That you do not like to actually earn that rating? I thought the "skilled" people like a real challenge, facing just as good or better opponents.

I do like a challenge, but not at 1650 rating when im still farming better gear (wich i cant get). The reall challenge should be around 1900+ ratings. Thats why the ratings of those deadly set pieces are so high, it should be a challenge to get them.

However it should not be mindblowing hard to get hatefull hands (1615) rating. And to win 3 matches to get +7 rating when uve lost 1. Especially with 5 minute ques on my server the "fun" part is really gone out the window. People who are skilled dont want to play weeks and weeks of arena to get past 1700 rating. Also its a punishement for new people to join a team, cause they will never be able to raise their personal, because at 1500 personal, but "invisible 2k" they will have a really hard time to raise that.

Also take into consideration that PVP is even more imbalanced then it was in previous seasons, and that its mostly DK, Pala, mage, and rogue that hold the top teams, and thus have a way easier time to get gear, and face easier teams with same skill level according to the matchmaking.

What i wonder. If you get the really easy raid epics and go arena with them. Would the matchmaking system rate you as skilled? Since the purpose of PVE gear is not PVP! it should suck in PVE, and you should want to have PVP gear to survive, which u currently do not.

[Eversor]

I do like a challenge, but not at 1650 rating when im still farming better gear (wich i cant get). The reall challenge should be around 1900+ ratings. Thats why the ratings of those deadly set pieces are so high, it should be a challenge to get them.

However it should not be mindblowing hard to get hatefull hands (1615) rating. And to win 3 matches to get +7 rating when uve lost 1. Especially with 5 minute ques on my server the "fun" part is really gone out the window. People who are skilled dont want to play weeks and weeks of arena to get past 1700 rating. Also its a punishement for new people to join a team, cause they will never be able to raise their personal, because at 1500 personal, but "invisible 2k" they will have a really hard time to raise that.

Also take into consideration that PVP is even more imbalanced then it was in previous seasons, and that its mostly DK, Pala, mage, and rogue that hold the top teams, and thus have a way easier time to get gear, and face easier teams with same skill level according to the matchmaking.

What i wonder. If you get the really easy raid epics and go arena with them. Would the matchmaking system rate you as skilled? Since the purpose of PVE gear is not PVP! it should suck in PVE, and you should want to have PVP gear to survive, which u currently do not.

If you are skilled enough, you will rise in rating. If you stay in the same rating weeks and weeks on end, you should reconsider, maybe that rating is your place, your current skill roof? You can claim yourself being extremely skilled and all, but if you stick in the same rating for so long, allow for me to disagree.

Also, "the real challenge should start at 1900". So what, you want to faceroll your way up to there? Then the equal chance should be given to every scrub out there, but it is impossible for 10 out of 11,5 million players to be at 1900 rating. It is a ladder, and if you are in the bottom and have no strength to climb up, then the ladder is not at fault. It is you.

Oh, and about the gear... do VoA, it is free pvp epix for absolutely no effort.

[PvE_Mage]

so it seems like the "toothpick" is actually a crown and I'm going to be a cyclops !


Rogues, lol... now "4 eyes" is no longer just an insult for people wearing glasses

[mrman]

If you are skilled enough, you will rise in rating. If you stay in the same rating weeks and weeks on end, you should reconsider, maybe that rating is your place, your current skill roof? You can claim yourself being extremely skilled and all, but if you stick in the same rating for so long, allow for me to disagree.

Also, "the real challenge should start at 1900". So what, you want to faceroll your way up to there? Then the equal chance should be given to every scrub out there, but it is impossible for 10 out of 11,5 million players to be at 1900 rating. It is a ladder, and if you are in the bottom and have no strength to climb up, then the ladder is not at fault. It is you.

Oh, and about the gear... do VoA, it is free pvp epix for absolutely no effort.

I haven't done arena since the patch, but I disagree with what you're saying. If what he's saying is true and he's been assigned an invisible rating of 2.2k and is constantly fighting 2.2k-ish teams, if he has 50% win-loss, he should gradually make his way to the 2.2k rating. However, from the sounds of it, v. 2.2k rated teams, a win yields less TR than a loss removes while he is in the 1650's. That goes completely against what the post said:

"If you were previously ranked with a high skill level and decide to create a new team, it should now be much easier to reach your team’s correct rating."

If you fight on a roughly even ground with 2.2k rated teams, imo your "correct rating" is 2.2k, and the way they worded the system is that it would make it easier to get there (I assume they meant fewer games played,otherwise why not just q them v. 1200 rated teams but give them 32 TR per game, or just let them start the team at the invisible rating?

As far as it accounting for everything you do in a match, I think there are flaws in that too. I think judging that is far too complex for them to rate. If I trinket a cheap shot do I get downrated, even though v. some teams (only time I do it), I'm dead before the CS ends unless i trinket it? If I mana burn the opponent, does it count as me "doing good" even if the opponent doesn't go OOM? Do they rate you on how quickly you dispel stuff? Different comps are played different ways, will I be downrated for not mass dispelling a bubble when the goal was to force the bubble, but we don't plan to utilize the bubble being gone till after a few CD's come up (and i don't wanna waste the mana to mass dispel for no reason if, for instance, we're waiting for my fear cd to be nearly up to get a CC combo on pally+finish off his partner). It also can't calculate other stuff like when you're a bit low on mana and you see an opening, your partner has cd's up, he tells you to go drink and he'll be fine, and he dies b/c he fails to use his cd's at the right time. Does it count against you for trying to drink or your partner for failing to appropriately use his CDs? It can't assume background conversations...If it weren't established that I was going to drink, my not healing is my fault.

There are just way too many variables that blizz won't always have, so if that's how they do it, it's bugged.

[crsh1976]

And still nothing about priest issues, just another normal day for GC.

[Jexx]

Let me explain to you how it works.

Your "skill" level is based on the combined average of your ilevel of gear (even in bank slots).

OK, I have asked this before but have never gotten a response.

Where exactly did a blue ever post that your "skill" level is based off of your gear (including bank slots)?

I'm not saying it isn't true, I just want to figure out once and for all where so many people came up with this claim, please someone come up with a link where a blue actually posted officially this is how the new system works!

[Balbaroy]

holy crap this new arena rating is so confusing lol. I remember a time when I used to be able to understand what rating meant and like, how much i should be getting after a game was done. I haven't really played with it that much because arenas in general are crap right now, so hopefully it'll dawn on me eventually. All I know is my personal rating is 70 points lower than my team rating :/

[Gixen]

My opinion.. the new system suxx... and is confusing...

[MuTe]

If you are skilled enough, you will rise in rating. If you stay in the same rating weeks and weeks on end, you should reconsider, maybe that rating is your place, your current skill roof? You can claim yourself being extremely skilled and all, but if you stick in the same rating for so long, allow for me to disagree.

Also, "the real challenge should start at 1900". So what, you want to faceroll your way up to there? Then the equal chance should be given to every scrub out there, but it is impossible for 10 out of 11,5 million players to be at 1900 rating. It is a ladder, and if you are in the bottom and have no strength to climb up, then the ladder is not at fault. It is you.

Oh, and about the gear... do VoA, it is free pvp epix for absolutely no effort.

1st i havent said im stuck at the same rating weeks after weeks. I said if i WIN a match i get 7 rating. If i LOSE a match i lose 12+ meaning i have to win 3 out of 4 battles to gain rating. Does this seem fair to you? Inmagine u play vs 2k+ rated teams all the time and win 7 each game. GL getting to 2k with that kind of progression.

Besided, ppl who have 2.2k rating now will also face ppl with 1500, but with a high skill level. They will also lose more rating then win. Eventually there is gonna be an avarage rating for everyone. My team pulls itself up from 2k rated, and 2k rated get pulled down by 1500. At the end well all end up in 1800 bracket.

Ill give another example for why this system sucks:

According to blizzard the Survival hunter requires more skill to play, thus puts out more dmg if played well. On the other hand, the BM hunter is an easier spec to play, thus requires less skill to play and therefor the spec does less dmg.

Now define "Skill". IMO it takes more skill to get, lets say 2k rating as a BM hunter since he does less dmg, has no cc, has no survivability.
Survival on the other hand has alot of abilities, does more dmg, and can help the healer alot more then a BM can. So he requires more skill?

Point is, you cant define what skill is. And you should not be ranked at the way you play. If you as a druid pillar kite every match, and throw a few hots on ur prot warrior and win match after match, you are ranked skilled.. roflmao

[eRAZOR]

The mage set looks kinda boring. But then again, mage sets look always boring.

[blahblahnameblah]

Q: So when you say HR tracks "skill", it's still solely based on win/losses and such through your history of arenas, and does not vary based on class/gear/comps?

Blue: This is correct.

From what I can tell from reading the Blue posts is that the Matchmaking system tracks your wins / losses through (I assume here) the season (although they do say history, so who knows: they might even be including TBC Arena as well, which is ludicrous considering how much some classes have changed).
Which means (theoretically) that if a team brings in a "ringer" to help boost their ratings, the ringer's overall rating (let's say he's won 80% of his matches this season) will be included rather than ignored in that teams horrific 1450 rating.

For those people noticing the difference between personal and team rating, the Blue mentioned that this is going to be adjusted so that personal rating converges towards the team rating rather than converge towards the matchmaking rating as it is currently.
So those of us who have been seeing a difference between those two should see them stabilized / converge in the future.

Eversor: The amount of misinformation in your posts is epic fail.

[Ishir]

I'm a bit puzzled.

As far as I can tell, the rating system was originally implemented to show someone's skill in PvP arena - higher rating meant you were better.

Now they've introduced an "invisible" rating which, from the Blizz comments that I've read, is supposed to more accurately match you up against opponents - i.e. skill.

So what does the visible rating actually measure? Is it just an arbitrary number? Why not replace it with a win-loss record then? Or change personal rating to the new invisible rating?

[Dinich]

Source for the quote where they confirmed that gear and such is not taken into account?

This is what I thought all along. The reason I thought this:
My partner and I have only played games on 2 teams this season: our 2v2 and our 3v3. We both have played 100% of the games. Our gear is very different.

Our personal rating has been identical every game this season.

There is no way it would be identical every single game considering we have very different gear, and do very different things in the arena. No way is our personal rating based on damage/healing/dispels/gear.

[blahblahnameblah]

Source for the quote where they confirmed that gear and such is not taken into account?

This:
Quote from: Aratil (Source)
I clicked on the tab in the first blue post... then read the thread.

and Ds_swoosh... yeah, I agree it's not working as intended, or flawed at the least, but...
The wowriot article "example" is not only pure speculation, it's wrong, and wrong headed.
It is not gear based, pure and simple. I have one team atm, I have mixed hateful/deadly full pvp gear, my buddy has none.
We get the same PR every match we play.
There is quite a bit of difference in the overall ilvl of our gear.
The gear = skill is a myth.

[MuTe]

I would say test the syetem yourself and come to your own conculsions.

What blue thinks happens and what it actually does are 2 different things. (I would never call blue a liar ofc )

Have a read here - http://wowriot.gameriot.com/blogs/Wo...h-Knight-Specs

Test it yourself, then tell me that blue is correct. I'm sure you will see it isn't working "as intended".

Lets not forget blizzard already admitted to making one mistake with it, and it didn't work as intended once already.

This article was written the 21st of Januari, and has been hot fixed. The bug was that even on lose, the personal rating would go up instead of down. This doesnt happen anymore. When playing around 20 arena matches yesterday im still keep getting +7 team rating for wins, and are now getting -5 team rating on lose instead of the -12 i had before. Maybe the system has adjusted something about my skill level or something, but now i dont have to win 3 games to make up for 1 lose.

However, ive been playing roughly around 100 arena matches since i joined this team, and my personal rating is not getting closer to the teamrating what so ever. Also +7 rating on wins isnt really much, and i now have to play twice as much arena to get the rating i desire then before this matchmaking system.

[Zerathil]

Could anyone tell me what's up with all the colors?
Is there like two PvE hunter versions, and two PvP hunter versions of the set, or is it just so that you can decide how you want to look?
A bit confused.

EDIT: Holy poo, I am silly. 10 man and 25 man.
Thanks me. xD

[eRAZOR]

EDIT: Holy poo, I am silly. 10 man and 25 man.
Thanks me. xD

Or the Arena Set.

[Menedude]

it's probably not PVP sets. it's probably 10 man version, 25 man version, and the other 2 colors will be re-released in the next expansions as lame dungeon sets !