Priest vs Paladin grouphealing after patches.

[schworck]

fire, THANK U.

this whole thread is based on whing about numbers that are nowhere near reality... nobodysbaby might be the most ignorant person i've met in 3 years playing.... and yes, before u try and use "read the thread before posting" again, cos u ran outta arguments, i'Ve read every single post^^

we went from 40% to 14% from a glyph. as posted several pages ago, there are plenty of reasons why this particular pally got such good numbers. 30% effective heal out of the glyph as a given.... /afk killing myself

[nobodysbaby]

Firecrest; Yes siiiireee; the fight was Thaddius, and there ppl stay really close to eachoter.

Anyhooow... Thanks a bunch for all feed-back, was interesting spending whole afternoon and evening here... Got a lot of insight "you learn something new everyday in WOW, yes?".

/kiss and goodnight

[Blooddeity]

This thread is epic fail: Paladins + grouphealing does not exist.

Paladins can:

- Single target heal
- Judge an opponent which allows DPS to regain a small portion of mana or health (if that is a group heal than you should be adding blood DK to that list too)
- Glyph a single target heal to spalsh 10% of that heal over a range of a WHOPPING 8 yards. This is a very trivial splash that mostly is spent on overhealing melee that are on full health anyway.
- Add a beacon to a party member so that all of the paladins effective healing with a bit fat !!!! behind effective healing!!!!!oneoneone!!!eleven, on other party members are transferred to the beacon. So that is healing a max of 2 targest at a time, I wouldn't call it group healing but rather pair healing.

Bad priest = bad. It's only a 6 second cooldown on COH, really if you can't keep a raid up for 6 seconds between every COH that you just suck!!!! bad!!!!

[Lustant]

If anything... Divine Plea needs to be a bit less OP (base mana perhaps), and our inability to go OOM...

Throughput is nice, but I mean, 2/3rd's or more is constantly overheal. Great for tank healing I spose, but we still aren't the kings of group healing.

More Lightwell's from priests imo.

[mutantboy]

So here's the bit i don't understand:

pallies have a glyph that does 14% of thier healing for free.

Priests have a glyph that heals a small amount - it was just nerfed by half
It was only when you cast dispel (which is 14% of base mana - not quite spammable eh?) and it was nerfed into insignificance. lol a 900 heal on your 30k HP tank - as a bonus to a spell in a majority of fights you don't use. nice.

[Blooddeity]

If anything... Divine Plea needs to be a bit less OP (base mana perhaps), and our inability to go OOM...

Throughput is nice, but I mean, 2/3rd's or more is constantly overheal. Great for tank healing I spose, but we still aren't the kings of group healing.

More Lightwell's from priests imo.

Devine plea base mana? then it will be next to useless. Why priests have a passive ability to regain mana through spirit, we have to remember to push a button every minute gosh we actually have to pay attention for our mana regen.

[Deleted]

Hello, I am an idiot. I clearly do not understand that the priest glyph was too strong in PVP. However, that does not stop me from adding my opinion to this equally idiotic thread. Thanks, nice to meet you. Bye!

[Nezoia]

WoW have come so so far, if people starts to whine about healing in lolmode content.

Seriously , get a grip, faceroll your keyboard, and loot your new shiny epic.

[mutantboy]

WoW have come so so far, if people starts to whine about healing in lolmode content.

Seriously , get a grip, faceroll your keyboard, and loot your new shiny epic.

not so clever huh

you do realise that the changes that are in the game won't go away when the game gets updated and new content added. So atm priests are nerfed because our best glyph had some PvP issues and our Aoe heal is too strong.

yet pallies have a huge overhead where they can spam their main heals, overheal 30% and not run out of mana, keep the melee topped up for free AS A SIDE EFFECT and yay get to heal self and the tank if it is required.

I'm betting that when push comes to shove they can up thier game - but can priests? is there any headroom there? way less i think.

In order to not trivialize content you have to make people take damage. It means the DPS have to move instead of casting non stop. But every encounter by doing this the raid will take some damage. And atm they have to make this a lot. Because if they don't then pallies healing with a side effect will counter this damage in the most trivial fashion. (and this doesn't even factor Shaman into things)

The basic reason Raids are easy mode right now is that the healers can faceroll and keep you alive. And when push comes to shove Pallies have minimal spell choices with massive effectiveness. And with scaling on top of that.

Who you going to call? And will there be a priest gimmick to keep them viable?

[ph0en1xtk]

dear Nobodysbaby

"obv you didnt read the post
obv you didnt read the post
obv you didnt read the post"

after reading the entire 9 pages of this thread, i noticed that your "obv you didnt read the post" is spammed too often and is OP, and just made up 40% of your effecting trolling, and needs to be nerfed

with that being said, something else you said bugs me. If glyph of holy light is so overpowered as you say it is, making it a talent would do what exactly? paladins would spec their points in it, and stop using the extra points they throw around, forcing the holy tree to have a more obvious cookie cutter build, and giving paladins an extra empty glyph slot, to put something else in, which would in the end make them stronger than they are in some shape or form. Then i would forsee a new post by you about why paladins are OP, and that for some reason no one EVER reads a post.

stop trolling and realize that paladins are not anywhere near over powered, and if you seriously think that half the healing is passive, youve got another thing coming.

facts:

beacon is a mana sink. only used on certain boss fights, usually i drop it on myself just to keep myself alive regardless of the situation, this is extremely apparent on saph, where i beacon myself, and stand in range of the tank, while standing in blizzard purposely. i dont ever die in it, and it probably forces myself further up the healing meter. that could be one thing your "op paladin" was doing

judgements need to be refreshed every 30 or so seconds to remain effective, and at least every two minutes to keep the haste buff up.

seals need to be refreshed every 2 minutes or they wear off.

most holy paladins judge wisdom rather than light because of the glyph for seal of wisdom that says "Use: While Seal of Wisdom is active, the cost of your healing spells is reduced by 5%"

so in that aspect, you can rule out judgement of light from a holy paladin and realize thats a prot or ret job.


in closing, if you have a paladin that sits there and spams holy light repeatedly, hes going to go oom really quickly and his healing will be nowhere near the numbers youre claiming

[Ananan]

Devine plea base mana? then it will be next to useless. Why priests have a passive ability to regain mana through spirit, we have to remember to push a button every minute gosh we actually have to pay attention for our mana regen.

Get gear with mp5 like shamans have to? Where do you think Spirit comes from?

[Val3rim]

beside if you say that palas overhealing was 70%

so that means that 70% wich paladin overhealed was filled up by aoe healers like druids, priests and resto shamans.

basically slap your paladins around their ears i would do it when i see palas overhealing for 70%

i mean 30% / 40% ok because of the splash and crit healing wich might overheal

BUT mindless spamming as wannabee AoE healer and than overheal for 70% pffff
just to be high on healing

Back in the days when i was holy paladin i tried to keep at least my tank alive
but care less about how high i was on healing as its a different job you have to do

And smart people wont whine about healing meters if you get the job done

Next time check the healing received, if your MT gets more healing from AoE healers than from paladins, yet paladins are topping the meters with 70% overheal
kick them from the raid and tell them l2play.

cheers
Val

[Kenark]

i didn't read the whole qq-y thread because i just read the one in the pally forum and wanted to see if the people here did stop replying as soon as there.
3 pages against 9 pages. doesn't look that way. so i'll summon up this threads for all like me who don't like to read bull* all day

paladins have a glyph that does 10% of your HL (av. 10k/20k meaning 1k/2k normal/crit) to 5 random targets in an area of 8 yards

this glyph is remotely usefull in fights like loatheb/thaddius and others where everyone stands at the same place and takes a lot of small amounts of damage all the time.

it however heals already topped-up players, as well as aoe "immune" pets. so alot of what you see on recount is overheal (as has been ever since when looking at pally-healing)

as soon as moving (no HL, sad pally...and no close groups...saaad saaad pally) comes into play, or a fight where people have to spread out (saaad...i think you get it) you can go on outperforming pallys all you want like usual


PS:hope this made things a bit clearer

[syanid]

The question that should be asked is: can a paladin heal while silenced and can a paladin prevent the killing blow on the main tank? I mean, what does it matter if a paladin can, say, do 10k hps if MT receives 75K (magic) damage hit and has 40K HP? What does it matter if a paladin can't put up enough hots on the target so it stays alive after boss does aoe silence?

It is never about the numbers, it's to cope with the situation. So yea, paladin does have insane healing output, on /rofl content that serves only to pump out numbers and brag about it. Come Ulduar, you'll need GS every now and then, or swiftmend, or ns+huge heal, or Penance to top off the target INSTANTLY, not after a second or two.

[Ananan]

The removal of divine plea (or making it base mana) would make every paladin go OOM in most fights. Mp5 is not enough due to the high cost of our big heal/beacon etc.
Even mentioning spirit in a paladin mana regen discussion makes you a retard. NEXT!

Read the quote-part in my post and you'll see that I wasn't in any way talking about spirit as a stat for paladins. It's just two lines, you can do it!

Seriously, you're not getting the message. Yes you would go oom if you spammed Holy Light. And you should since it isn't supposed to be spammable. Maybe it will require some tweaks to the cost of Beacon or the effectiveness of Flash of Light etc to get it all right after the general nerfs to paladins' mana pool, but the current Holy Light spam isn't here to stay.

[sTigmatico]

Try keeping shit up without HL.

[tehealadin]

Read the quote-part in my post and you'll see that I wasn't in any way talking about spirit as a stat for paladins. It's just two lines, you can do it!

Seriously, you're not getting the message. Yes you would go oom if you spammed Holy Light. And you should since it isn't supposed to be spammable. Maybe it will require some tweaks to the cost of Beacon or the effectiveness of Flash of Light etc to get it all right after the general nerfs to paladins' mana pool, but the current Holy Light spam isn't here to stay.

HL is meant to be spammable. I doubt we would have such haste itemization if it wasn't. FoL has been dethroned as the main pally healing spell, it might be ok for some trash but when people are taking big hits, FoL doesn't cut it anymore. There isn't a problem with holy light. The glyph range was OP, now it isn't.

Val3rim, you said smart people don't complain about the meters, yet you are saying people with massive overheal need told off? Screw overheal. So long as people are kept up, that is all that matters and if that means some will get a big overheal, well people are going to have to do something about their ego's.

[Zerojoe]

If you NEED Circle of healing to heal others, then one of the following is bad:
1)Your spec.
2)Your gear is'nt up to par
3)Skills.
The CoH change was'nt that huge to me, because to be honest, i thought it was garbage anyway,With bubbles (that heal!) When glyphed and all the other stuff you can have, i can effectivley Shape my healing to where it needs to be.

[snuu]

I checked a WWS from bosses only, full clear Naxx, and Paladins heals looks like this:

Holy Light 10 mil (44 %)
Judgement of light 6 mil (27 %)
Glyph of Holy Light 3,5 mil (14 %)
Beacon 2 mil ( 9 %)
Flash of Light 1 mil ( 5 %)

Meaning around 40% is "passive" and free cost groupheals.

/disagree.

27% of the paladin's healing should have been done by the prot paladin.

[Ananan]

Try keeping shit up without HL.

Can't you have both spells on your bar and sort of alternate between them? What's with the, "If I don't have enough mana to spam HL for 8 minutes I will have to spam FoL the whole time and never use HL. I will finish every fight on 97% mana of course, but my throughput will suck."

Step down a bit, throw some flashes inbetween and use HL when needed. It isn't supposed to break you. If it does then perhaps FoL needs a buff, what do I know.

I'm just telling you that if you stick with the sentiment that Holy Light is supposed to be spammed I have a strong feeling that you are in for some disappointment down the road. It's balanced around being expensive as hell so it can't be used like that. It's like if priests would start to argue that the right way to raid-heal should be to stuff a holy priest in each group and have them spam Prayer of Healing for 5 minutes. That shouldn't work either, and the only difference is that it doesn't while the paladin version does.