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  1. #1
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    GC said they would buff shadowpriests' surivability in pvp with 3.1.
    But I recon that is not enough to make us viable in arenas, and pvp in general.

    More survivability can mean a lot of things:
    1. Being able to withstand damage longer - this wouldn't help at all, as we can't do anything with a dedicated DPS class hitting on as. We cannot reliably CC them, we cannot do more damage than them.
    2. Being able to escape damage - this is something we would need. Mages have lots of roots, a stun, invisibility, druids have cyclone, roots, etc. pp. We have fear which is the most easily broken CC of them all, on a long cooldown.
    3. Being able to do damage while being focused - this would also help. When we get focused we can't do a thing besides casting our 2 instant dots.

    In a world of burst, we have almost none (MB ~6 seconds CD, SWD 12 and huge damage to ourselfs so usually not usable in a pvp situation).
    In a world of movement, we have almost none. We have to stand still to do damage.
    In a world of cast interrupts, we have none. Silence is too long a CD and too weak (at least with the low damage we can put out in 6 seconds).

    If more survivability means 2. (being able to escape damage), then I could see an out for us. If it means something else, I think we still will be a free kill everywhere.

    How am I ever supposed to take down a healer, without reliable CC, without enough burst, and with no cast interruptions? When I have a DPS on me in a dps/healer against dps/healer 2v2 match? Or how am I even supposed to do any damage besides letting my dots tick when I have a dps on me? Or are shadowpriests just supposed to play with rogues/dks/rets?

    This shall be no QQ, just observations, and questsion.

    P.S. If someone from the US would be kind enough to post this on the US forums, I would really love to see a blue reply on this topic, seeing as there are a good amount of priest replies in the last time.
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  2. #2

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    In a world of burst, we have almost none (MB ~6 seconds CD, SWD 12 and huge damage to ourselfs so usually not usable in a pvp situation).
    In a world of movement, we have almost none. We have to stand still to do damage.
    In a world of cast interrupts, we have none. Silence is too long a CD and too weak (at least with the low damage we can put out in 6 seconds).
    Isn't that the truth...
    Currently I play only 10 games on my shadow priest because of the fact that it is costing me too much gold to have to respec between disc for pvp and shadow for pve.

  3. #3

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    imo, if MF was still a channeled spell, but you didn't have to stand still to channel it. This would seriously up the survivability for SPriests, at least from our greatest enemies . . . . melee. The same goes for Locks and Mages for their respective spells. Im not talking about AoEs, just single target spells like Arcane Missiles, and Life Drain.
    Proud owner of the original [Master of Anatomy] and Fail macros.

  4. #4

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    So if I kill myself in PvP with SW shouldn't I get the HK? Or at least the killing blow right...

    So look at the things that make a great PvP class and it mostly comes down to gimmicks.
    rogues can get close to you and stop you getting away
    mages can get away from you while keeping you stationary.

    Those are the caster and melee best of class points.

    But it can so easily turn OP - super mobility in a healer = druids in 90% of winning 2's combos.
    A healer who can drain tank you = rmp with the other 2 "best in class"

    For me every time it comes down to the format: its an open field with a few obstacles. the whole idea of the format is bereft of any true concept of viability given the design of the classes. I honestly think that S3 was probably about a good as it gets with most classes having a reasonable chance if you have the right spec, but with some classes being very good & having a counter class.

    I don't think there is much hope the Spriest - for close and personal PvP the class doesn't have teh design parameters.

  5. #5

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by QQQQQQQ
    While i (holy priest) am completely on your guys side, i think its a bit much to expect to be imba in both PVE and PVP with the one spec.
    This oft repeated BS is one of the biggest fallacies of PvP in the game. So if you play a s/priest you have to be bad at PvP - how the hell does that make sense. Does it make sense for Pallies - ret seems pretty viable. Certainly seems better for them than Priests. But it also writes off Shaman and Druids totally - why should one of thier specs be good at PvP when they are now all viable in PvE.

    If we can't move on from "they are a pure class" then we might as well shut down arena and remove it from the game. Because that only leaves rogue, lock, hunter and mage as "Pure" - every other class is some sort of tank/heal tank/DPS heal/DPS hybrid.

    (actually the reality of this BS is the DPS always get butt hurt about healers who DPS - time to get over it IMO)



  6. #6

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by QQQQQQQ
    You forget though that rogues and mages (locks and hunters) are pure DPS classes and should be viable in both PVE and PVP and they must respec for this. And right now some of them lack in PVE.

    While i (holy priest) am completely on your guys side, i think its a bit much to expect to be imba in both PVE and PVP with the one spec.

    Disc. is the way to go for a serious PVP run and while I'm sure they are going to buff shadow survability, i think thats exactly and all they are going to do. I wouldn't expect a huge overhaul or anything, not while SP's are seeing the numbers they are in PVE right now.
    The fact that disc may be pvp viable isn't an argument to suggest the other trees should be non viable... to goal if im mistake is to provide an environment where every spec is viable and as such the shadow priests need changes to achieve that outcome.

    personally I dont see how disc priests are all that viable, at least in 2s when it's totally possible to have your partner cc'd (sap/blind/repentence), only one of which can be trinketed and then you have to live with rogue stuns and HoJ which won't happen if the rogue/pally know what they're doing... sure I only had 600 resilience last I tried disc but all the reslience in the world wasn't going to stop me getting gang banged while my partner did nothing.

    All I can think of is to partner with a rogue and do that to the opposing team first. It all boils down to rogues being too powerful with too many powerful pvp abilites and then having the ability to reset their cd's and do it again. Remove abilites that reset cd's, abilities have cd's for a reason and giving them a refresh on it is just exacerbating the problem.

    I actually came to the conclusion that you should just spec for spirit of redemption based on the fact you will die and partner with someone who is good enough to take out the other 2 while you can't be interrupted for serveral seconds.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by QQQQQQQ
    You forget though that rogues and mages (locks and hunters) are pure DPS classes and should be viable in both PVE and PVP and they must respec for this. And right now some of them lack in PVE.

    While i (holy priest) am completely on your guys side, i think its a bit much to expect to be imba in both PVE and PVP with the one spec.
    As mutantboy said, but with a little addendum: First, it's not one spec. Shadow PVP is COMPLETELY different than shadow PVE. Also where did you get the notion that shadowpriests are imba in pve? Against good pure classes you won't top damage meters, punctum.

    Second, Warriors are as much hybrids as we are. Yet they have 3 viable PVP specs. Arms as always, Fury is awesome too, and I've seen a lot of Def Warriors successful in PVP too (well not 2000 rating but still they hold their own).
    Druids are the most hybrid of them all. Yet they have viable moonkin, feral and resto specs for PVP. All of them offer awesome burst (or healing), mobility and CC.
    Deathknights are hybrids. Yet they have more than 3 viable PVP specs with all their cool new talents.
    Shamans are kinda in the same boat as we are, their only viable PVP spec is resto.
    Paladins are hybrid. Yet they have a healing and a very very viable damage spec for PVP.

    And so on... your argument is simply void.

    P.S. Anyone here in this thread from the US? Could you please post my first post in the US blizzard board?

    Edit: News from GC - http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...o=12&sid=1#225

    "We have some PvP-oriented changes in mind for Shadow. We hope to be able to announce them soon." *gets his hope up*
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  8. #8

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    How about you wait for the actual change before criticizing it?
    Blizzard isn't stupid you know, they might have something handy in mind. Two things I'm almost certain will happen are changes to Divine Hymn and Dispersion. Can't wait to see what they have come up with.

  9. #9

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by QQQQQQQ
    Disc. is the way to go for a serious PVP run and while I'm sure they are going to buff shadow survability, i think thats exactly and all they are going to do. I wouldn't expect a huge overhaul or anything, not while SP's are seeing the numbers they are in PVE right now.
    In a good guild, SP dps is at best 5-8 on the meters. I know I can do 4800ish dps on non gimmick single target(patchwerk, did 5847 during the misery bug) fights and I dont come close to fury warriors, surv hunters, mages, DK's, and good enh shammies. If a SP is the top damage in a guild, they need better players behind those other classes.
    I dont care about MS spamming trash either, its not like we dont pull 5 or 6 trash packs from boss to boss at this point and aoe it all down.

    As for pvp, dot classes will never do well in the current system. We are not a threat in anyway because we have laughable survivability and laughable damage in the current arena system. I play my holy pally in arena's and when we see a SP on the other side of the gate, we know we have a free win. It has been awhile though because SP's dont get to our current rating.(2150)

  10. #10

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aureact
    How about you wait for the actual change before criticizing it?
    Blizzard isn't stupid you know, they might have something handy in mind. Two things I'm almost certain will happen are changes to Divine Hymn and Dispersion. Can't wait to see what they have come up with.
    I suspect they are going to improve shadowpriest's damage mitigation through shadowform too.

    Majika

  11. #11

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    Why make a topic when nothing is even known yet? just stupid if you ask me.


    Just wait till GC posts something and then make a topic if it is oke or not.

  12. #12

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglarana
    Why make a topic when nothing is even known yet? just stupid if you ask me.
    Why post in a stupid topic? Stupid if you ask me. You didn't ask actually, but I fancy telling you anyway....


    Dispersion needs a buff and a reworking. It will get it. I still think it could reset Scream (or more/other cooldowns) and not be OP.

    Hymns are all getting fiddled with anyway.

    SF to get buffed in damage reduction.

    Silence with an interrupt on it.

    Some kind of boost to DP heal would be nice. VE off the GCD would be awesome (it is not a mana costing spell anymore, and so seems interesting as an idea).

    We will be losing blackout though - so how they'll compensate for that RNG winning a few matches I do not know. Perhaps, as someone else said, a shadowfury style stun. Or just give us all chastise. Or give Shadowfiend a stun ;-)

    My thoughts.

  13. #13
    gomi
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    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    GC said they would buff shadowpriests' surivability in pvp with 3.1.
    But I recon that is not enough to make us viable in arenas, and pvp in general.
    ??? *10

    Bizzard is saying we are going to buff SP they recon that this class have issue in pvp. Then you make a post that is not enought again ???. You have no idea what they going to do. So why in hell are you making a post about a buff you dont know. This is so retard post have you read your own post?

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by gomi
    This is so retard post have you read your own post?
    Retard. Takes one to know one...

    Have you read my post? Obviously not, or you did but you didn't understand it with your low level of comprehension...
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  15. #15
    gomi
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    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    GC said they would buff shadowpriests' surivability in pvp with 3.1.
    But I recon that is not enough to make us viable in arenas, and pvp in general.
    Blizzard: Ok, we going to buff SP they have some issue we need to fix
    You: That will not be enought to make us viable in arena and pvp in general.

    Blizzard: What? We have not said anything what we going to do so how can you say it is not enought?
    You: What ever you do it will not be enought for us.

    Blizzard: But you dont know what we are going to do,,, ah forget it.
    You: I am going to make a post about this.

    Nothing wrong with the rest of your post but that have nothing to do with that first statment.

  16. #16

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tasmen
    In a good guild, SP dps is at best 5-8 on the meters. I know I can do 4800ish dps on non gimmick single target
    I'm sorry, but that isn't incredible... No offense to you as a player or your gear, but just because you can do 4800 dps does not mean that spriests in general are stuck here.

  17. #17

    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    OP was Talking about surivability in PvP and did not refer to the last 2 statements which where'nt even post at the time this Thread was created (if im not mistaken)

    He said; what do we care if we can stay alife for 10 more seconds but we cant do anything in this 10 second. Atleast this is what i understood

    only a surivability boost wont help us , sadly But i hope theyre going to change alot more than only surivability.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    Quote Originally Posted by gomi
    Blizzard: Ok, we going to buff SP they have some issue we need to fix
    You: That will not be enought to make us viable in arena and pvp in general.

    Blizzard: What? We have not said anything what we going to do so how can you say it is not enought?
    You: What ever you do it will not be enought for us.

    Blizzard: But you dont know what we are going to do,,, ah forget it.
    You: I am going to make a post about this.

    Nothing wrong with the rest of your post but that have nothing to do with that first statment.
    Dude, read what I wrote in my original post. If you still don't understand the issue, well you're sore out of luck... or comprehension.

    More survivability can mean a lot of things:
    1. Being able to withstand damage longer - this wouldn't help at all, as we can't do anything with a dedicated DPS class hitting on as. We cannot reliably CC them, we cannot do more damage than them.
    2. Being able to escape damage - this is something we would need. Mages have lots of roots, a stun, invisibility, druids have cyclone, roots, etc. pp. We have fear which is the most easily broken CC of them all, on a long cooldown.
    3. Being able to do damage while being focused - this would also help. When we get focused we can't do a thing besides casting our 2 instant dots.
    Now this is a poster who gets "it":

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostprophet
    OP was Talking about surivability in PvP and did not refer to the last 2 statements which where'nt even post at the time this Thread was created (if im not mistaken)

    He said; what do we care if we can stay alife for 10 more seconds but we cant do anything in this 10 second. Atleast this is what i understood

    only a surivability boost wont help us , sadly But i hope theyre going to change alot more than only surivability.
    What good does more "survivability" if we still can't do a thing? If we survive for 5 seconds inside of the stun/silence lock now, and we survive for 10 seconds in 3.1, well than that was a 100% boost to our survivability.

    But guess what? It still doesn't change A THING.

    We don't need survivability as I explained in 1.), we need survivability as explained in 2.) and 3.). Being able to do damage under fire, and/or being able to get away from melees.

    THOSE are the issues at hand.
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  19. #19
    gomi
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    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    GC said they would buff shadowpriests' surivability in pvp with 3.1.
    But I recon that is not enough to make us viable in arenas, and pvp in general.
    More survivability can mean a lot of things
    Yes it can mean ANYTHING as you said your self "More survivability can mean a lot of things" then you give some examples. Now blizzard didnt list ANYTHING what they going to do in the frame of surivability that we both clear out that can mean ANYTHING.

    So you have nothing to base your statment on beause blizzard have not give you anything to cry about yet.

    Blizzard: Ok, we going to buff SP they have some issue we need to fix
    You: That will not be enought to make us viable in arena and pvp in general.

    Blizzard: What? We have not said anything what we going to do so how can you say it is not enought?
    You: What ever you do it will not be enought for us.

    Blizzard: But you dont know what we are going to do,,, ah forget it.
    You: I am going to make a post about this.

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Spriest survivability buff not enough for PVP?

    If those
    Shadow priest PvP survivability has been improved: Shadow Form now reduces magic as well as physical damage. Dispersion now removes snares.
    are ALL the changes we will get, major LULZ indeed. Just as I predicted. That doesn't change a THING.

    While at the same time disc has really AWESOME survivability changes. Penence on self? PW:Barrier? Holy schmoly.

    *sad shadowpriest face*
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