Divine Plea Change

[Draco cracona]

Right, so upper end of those numbers is a tad high, lower boundary of htem still seems fine and is a good amount of int though tbh, and half the crit you'd otherwise get. Probably a bit high still, but I still think the 10% int will beat the 3% crit tbh. Moot due to the new changes, but meh :P

[Nirron]

They should make it a non purgable buff tbh!

[Cadras]

It's just fair that they nerf it to 50% less healing, holy pallys are like Duracell Bateries! Never runs out of power! And I dont think it will affect ret and prot so wery much, parhaps in pvp, but with the exorcism change I dont rly care

They should make it a non purgable buff tbh!

Agreed

[Triston]

They should have made it 25-30% on a 2 min CD. Or make it 35% BASE mana on a 1 min CD. As it is right now the only place to use it is out of combat for chain pulling. It needed a nerf, sure, but this is a bit overkill. With replenishment though, Int is still best for holy and int also increases SP and crit as well as mana.

My pally doesn't have a single crit gem and has nearly 37% crit to go alond with 24k mana and over 2100 spell power. I stopped using Divine Plea when I found out about the nerf (excluding out of combat) and if played properly and you manage CDs it's really not that bad. I'm just worried about the PvP holy pallies and worried that they may over intensify Ulduar in such a way that I have to completely regear/gem to keep the mana up. We'll see.

In the end this, and other changes, will separate the good healers from the ones being carried similar to how the end of BT and all of Sunwell did that for BC.

[sterni]

Maybe Blizz should go and figure out mana usage on the really though fights in woltk like Sartharion 3D 10. Mana is not a real problem in Naxx, because players take less dmg and are very well equipped easily in a short time. Taking into account that Ulduar may be more challenging, we will maybe see mana problems come back. And then we would have to change gear towards mp5 like in the old days because there is no other way for us to regain mana.

Also in very aoe heavy fights the nerf to spiritual attunement is doubling the mana issues because you have to put out very much healing and get less mana back.

In fact, this nerfs 10 man more than 25 man, though you often cannot afford to heal 50% less for 12s because you are one of the two healers...

In my opinion, if there is the need to nerf it, put it on 2min CD and test it well on PTR in Ulduar.

[Blitzblade]

Both Divine Plea and SA changes will affect us negatively. First thing to remember is this will be around when ulduar is out so ull be doing more healing then u are now and the raid will be taking more damage so ur current mana remaining at the end of a boss is probably gonna drop substantially let alone during it.

Normally when there is tons of aoe damage Divine Plea will be unused since we fall back to SA but with its change its likley to see it not as relialbe for cases like that forcing us to use divine plea.

We will have to probably drop quite a bit of haste for mp5 on our gear and socketing for pure int wont be that great too.

Glyph of Holy Light won't be like OMG SPAM HOLY LIGHT = WIN like the QQ'ers about pallies think. Unless we want to be spamming Divine Plea whenever its up and probably see a tank drop we will have to limit our use of Holy Light and Beacon will be something pretty hard to maintain due to their mana costs.

SA changes will be hurtin everyone no matter what they do to it probably ret/prot the worst.

Its going to be rough for pvp too for parts where u cant stop healing but also need mana. It better not stack other MS like abilities since this isnt a debuff because that would be just straight up retarded.

What would be a pretty nasty scenario would be if they see u have used DP and decided to burst someone down since iwth a 4-5k holy light u arn't gonna keep that person up who are u kidding (not that u should be spamming holy light in pvp anyways) A perfect example would be an Arcane Barrage vs u when u have used DP since just that will do more damage then your big heals.

Something to combine with it would be Avenging Wrath like in a macro or w/e so its only 30% reduction but would be limited to every 3rd divine plea since its a 3min CD.

I personally think they could of taken a better approach at this and SA latley blizzard has been doing alot of questionable class changes so anything your imagination can think of is probably to be expected

Edit: They shouldnt judge mana issues on current content due to them establishing it for casuals and making it a joke and making achievements a poor attempt at some real raiding with crap for benefit in doing (more worth it in ulduar since it will be items and not just a title)

[Zelven]

The best way they could "fix" SA to not hurt Ret/Prot as much as Holy is to have it have some basis off of your Base mana pool. Kind of like the change to mana burns, but in this case, do it for the mana restore. So you can still get mana back based on the heal, but it cannot exceed **% of your base mana. Since Prot and Ret pallies operate pretty close to their base mana pool, they would get "nerfed" far less that, say, a holy pally. SA could still be a nice buff for Ret and Prot in this way.

[Palatinus]

IMO, i feel the changes that they've released seem quite rushed.

Blessing of Kings – We all screamed for this, and now its happened..
Exorcism – They've been telling us they were going to do this since before wrath was released.
Shield of the Templar - Granted there have been some new prot changes.
Ardent Defender, Improved Hammer of Justice, One-Handed Weapon Specialization and more have had their ranks reduced. - This is a stealth nerf to ret, as it will most likely increase the CD of hammer of justice, like we didn't deep down know that blizzard would change hammer of justice again >.>
Guarded by the Light – Interesting, they obliviously believe prot has mana issues
Judgements of the Just – This shows that they will be nerfing imp hammer, and it will be a nerf to ret, they won't let prot walk around with a 10 second hammer. But the SoJ change is weird, why change it when they are reducing RNG stuns?

And then theres the DP change, i for one don't think it will go live as EXACTLY how it is, we knew it would be nerfed in some way....but it pretty much makes the spell useless in pvp, unless they uped the return on it (not going to happened). Theres no way your going to be able to use it in pvp anymore, when your heals would do 25% of what they should? The problem with making this change, is that they may now FORCE holy palas into judgement of the wise (again). And then when they realise that is too good, or they don't want holy palas that deep into ret, blizzard will just nerf JotW, nerfing both ret and holy, and not actually solving the problem in the first place.

/worried again

[Xs]

*Thinks about all the good things they did in TBC*



Am I just stupid or can't I think of anything?

[Dr. D]

This shouldn't really affect Prot in anyway as any protadin will know not to pop divine plea when they want to heal. Not sure about other specs though. I know when i put on my 400+ MP5 holy set (don't ask), i don't have to use Divine Plea much.

[...]but the amount healed by your spells is reduced by 20%.[...]


l2read?

[Palatinus]

*Thinks about all the good things they did in TBC*



Am I just stupid or can't I think of anything?

I know one, they nerfed illumination from 100% to 50% (then to 60%). O wait, good things.....

Hmm funny how i can see TBC repeating itself. Season 1, paladins are amazing, season 2-4 bottom.

Lets look at what supposedly made palas OP in S1...illumination, what happened to it? It got nerfed (quite badly for pvp).

Now currently, wrath, what is so good about palas in S1, Insane burst dmg atm making divine shield amazing, divine plea so you can't run out mana. Whats going to happen? Damage being nerfed, therefore palas won't be the most efficient at keeping people up, unless FoL becomes amazing again. And divine plea will be useless, 50% debuff + the opposing teams MS effect....yeah....

wtb re roll, most likely a druid please.


Edit: Btw, this change will have far worse effects on holy PVP, rather than PVE. On many PVE fights, esp on 25man, there will be times in-between phrases or just times you don't have to heal that you can pop plea. The problem with pvp though, is that as soon as you pop it, you will be healing 75% (not sure on the maths) if the healing target already has an MS effect, what i wouldn't mind seeing is blizzard to not allow it to stack with MS, then it may become useful in PVP again as you'll either have no 'extra' healing debuff or a debuff against teams that wouldn't normally for 15 seconds.

[Thorold]

IMO, i feel the changes that they've released seem quite rushed.
Judgements of the Just – This shows that they will be nerfing imp hammer, and it will be a nerf to ret, they won't let prot walk around with a 10 second hammer. But the SoJ change is weird, why change it when they are reducing RNG stuns?

/worried again

Didn't they add a interrupt effect to Hoj? maybe thats why they are giving prot 10 sec interrupt?

[Palatinus]

Didn't they add a interrupt effect to Hoj? maybe thats why they are giving prot 10 sec interrupt?

True, if you look at it from a pve side. But then they also added silence effects to Avenger’s Shield and Shield of the Righteousness. Therefore do they need more interrupts (presuming that if the boss is immune to silence it will still interrupt).

If you look at it from a pvp side, can you see blizzard allowing prot palas to walk into arena having a 6 second stun every 10 seconds (even with DR, you could stun another person). That is worse than rogues currently...

[Someshta]

Divine Plea nerf coupled with the change to Spiritual Attunement, while simultaneously buffing talents that benefits Spirit? Unfair, I think. I agree wholeheartedly that Divine Plea is way OP as it is, but changing the healing penalty to -50% will make it largely obsolete to use.

[Shapeshiftr]

If any of you are experiencing healing problems after this nerf you really sucked before the nerf. EOD.

[Someshta]

If any of you are experiencing healing problems after this nerf you really sucked before the nerf. EOD.

Perhaps, time will tell. Personally I try to use Divine Plea as much as I can. It doesn't necessarily mean I suck, but it would be stupid not to use it when you can afford it.

I am also not too fond of stacking MP5; it's a boring stat and I would much rather stack Haste and Crit instead of going back to the old BC days.

[Xavi]

Divine Plea nerf coupled with the change to Spiritual Attunement, while simultaneously buffing talents that benefits Spirit? Unfair, I think. I agree wholeheartedly that Divine Plea is way OP as it is, but changing the healing penalty to -50% will make it largely obsolete to use.

In what fight do you need to spam - ENDLESSLY? There isn't one, priests have to stop casting for 8 seconds full stop to use Hymn of hope, and we manage - get over yourself.

[Dr. D]

Priests got also shadowfiend

[Deleted]

Sarth+3.


Also, in normal raids you spam endlessly as a MT healing paladin, so it really affects those more than heroic raids. Of heroic raids, only the hardcore mode ones are significantly affected, because you usually have to spam heal there as well.

[Someshta]

In what fight do you need to spam - ENDLESSLY? There isn't one, priests have to stop casting for 8 seconds full stop to use Hymn of hope, and we manage - get over yourself.

No fight I've ever been in. I didn't say we needed to spam endlessly. Maybe you misquoted me.

Comparing it to Hymn of Hope is not really relevant. It's a channeled cast so you can cancel it anytime you want and chuck a heal if there's an emergency. Divine Plea is a 15 second buff, meaning you will actually have to actively cancel it if you ever need to. The time you lose doing this is mostly so small it doesn't really matter. But in some cases, it can.